U.S. Men 2022-23 news & updates

[Rukia]

For the love of Dick Button I am begging one of the US men to announce a program to a whiny ballad so you all can complain about that for the next 20 pages at least it would be new ground

 

[Trillian]

I'd posit the theory that, actually, the quads ARE inherently more difficult than the transitions and step clusters by pointing out that there is an ENTIRE discipline dedicated to footwork, edges, blade control, and musicality and that this discipline had nearly as many entries in it at Worlds this year as the Men and Women.

Of course quads are inherently difficult, and I doubt you’d get many people here who would argue that the 4A isn’t the most difficult individual element any skater performed last season.

But it was the latest iteration of “jumps are the only Real Technical Skill and everything else is just floof” that started this conversation. And I think you also know that that’s not true - the other elements are also technical skills, and it takes a high level of athleticism to execute them.

Additionally, the skater who is your current punching bag

??? I’m going to assume that’s not a shot at me, since I’d really like to see people respect what all of these skaters can do.

got a L4 on both the SP and FS step sequences, so he's clearly capable of doing all those super-hard steps and clusters that you consider to be oh-so-important. In addition to the quads he's attempting.

So here’s my perspective as an old-school fan: it’s not just about what skaters can do with their individual elements. Under this scoring system, we see less emphasis on the complete program, but some of us are still really impressed with the ability of a skater to maintain a consistent performance and energy level throughout every technical element and in between them. That takes a lot of technical skill specifically because it depends on the ability of a skater to be comfortable executing everything in their program and recovering well from mistakes when they do happen. That’s less quantifiable, particularly under this scoring system, but it’s real and it’s hard and some of us appreciate seeing it. It doesn’t have to be something you care about, but those of us who appreciate it aren’t stupid. We just like different things.

You will notice that the ones who make those claims never actually back themselves up (both here or on PI, for that matter).

I don’t debate with you, specifically, because you ignore or dismiss every argument that doesn’t support your opinion, so it’s a waste of time. If you feel the need to keep taking personal shots, you can DM me instead of hijacking the thread.

 

[On My Own]

Additionally, the skater who is your current punching bag got a L4 on both the SP and FS step sequences, so he's clearly capable of doing all those super-hard steps and clusters that you consider to be oh-so-important. In addition to the quads he's attempting.

BTW. Not just level 4s, but also things like these:

https://youtu.be/xfDH8d6dxYQ?t=54 (spread eagle entry into 4T he did last season）
https://youtu.be/g-hA0whZp3U?t=66 (and this season)
https://youtu.be/g-hA0whZp3U?t=101 (and this setup into 3A as well as the exit)

 

[Sylvia]

Here’s a charming interview with Lucas Broussard (recorded at Junior Worlds in Calgary) by Judith D. & Tatjana F. for Golden Skate that was uploaded today:

Lucas (silent ‘s’ at the end - he was named after a soccer player ) was a competitive ski racer before he started figure skating at the age of 9 in Sun Valley.

ETA: He mentioned that “Waltz” was being considered for one of his programs this coming season.

He said the plan is to return to the JGP and debut as a senior internationally (an ISU Challenger, if assigned) and nationally (link to the recap): https://www.goldenskate.com/2023/04/lucas-broussard-sums-up-the-successful-season/

 

[Karen-W]

For the love of Dick Button I am begging one of the US men to announce a program to a whiny ballad so you all can complain about that for the next 20 pages at least it would be new ground

Well, in the interim, we could speculate on who is the most likely candidate of the US men to accommodate your request, lol. Torgy, Naumov, & Pulkinen all seem to have it in them to pick a whiny emo ballad, though I'd have to eliminate Pulkinen just because his main coach seems to have better musical instincts than that.

 

[LeafOnTheWind]

We could always discuss how Camden had his best performances to the music I hate the most. It's just a continuation in his quest to make it really hard for me to justify being a fan of his in spite of his best efforts to thwart me.

 

[Trillian]

We could always discuss how Camden had his best performances to the music I hate the most. It's just a continuation in his quest to make it really hard for me to justify being a fan of his in spite of his best efforts to thwart me.

Ha. The number of times I’ve sat in front of my TV going, “Well… the important thing is that you like it, Jason.” I could live without hearing Josh Groban ever again, in particular.

Tbh, I wouldn’t mind more whiny emo ballads in the men’s event. I kind of love Maxim Naumov’s whole deal because you can usually tell he’s skating to music he actually enjoys, and that does make a difference in the performance. My least favorite genre of pop music in skating is “this was my coach’s favorite song when they were 16,” because I actually like current music and I’d like to see the skaters connecting with their music. Bring on the hip hop and the whiny emo ballads and even the bro country if they want.

 

[LeafOnTheWind]

Jason's free skates have been testing me too.

I agree that the connection to the music can help overcome the dislike of it. I prefer to see the skater looking like they are really into their programs.

 

[Theatregirl1122]

Well, in the interim, we could speculate on who is the most likely candidate of the US men to accommodate your request, lol. Torgy, Naumov, & Pulkinen all seem to have it in them to pick a whiny emo ballad, though I'd have to eliminate Pulkinen just because his main coach seems to have better musical instincts than that.

Camden might choose a whiney ballad, but it'll be IN ITALIAN.

 

[Karen-W]

Jacob Sanchez just posted to his IG Story a not-so-bad quad attempt - low and probably 2-footed landing, but slow and steady progress! Fingers crossed he gets a JGP assignment this year!

 

[On My Own]

https://manleywoman.com/ episode 36.
When asked about Jeremy's skating, it's obvious the interviewer thought Jeremy was amazing (run of his blades), while Tom pointed out an issue (something about balancing, I forgot the exact wording). And he didn't remember his second figure 8s or something.

So I actually read it, and it seems old, but it also doesn't seem to say Jeremy had flaws at his peak, rather it indicates what kind of training he received with Dickson? And links it to Dickson's emphasis on compulsory figures for his skaters.

Jeremy Abbott, my first lesson with him was an outside eight. He’s done some figures, I think he passed his second test, but he didn’t remember how difficult an outside eight was [laughs]. He had a great run of his blade, but he had some issues like — I call it balancing your head on your spine, and we went back to the outside eight as a way of learning that.

I love how much he discussed Matt Savoie by the way. I really do find his step sequences outstanding, like these:

Matthew SAVOIE 2006 Olympics LP

youtu.be

Matt Savoie - 2005 US Nationals LP

youtu.be

Now with HIM I don't actually care about the lack of a quad, because I can watch his beautiful rhythm and choreography all day long. And of course, he still had giant 3As with difficult transitions like that hydroblade in, and correct edges on both flip and lutz. And wasn't doing awkward, flailing body movement with weak free leg positioning like this, which you'd think someone with outstanding basic skating would have the ability to avoid.

 

[jlai]

So I actually read it, and it seems old, but it also doesn't seem to say Jeremy had flaws at his peak, rather it indicates what kind of training he received with Dickson? And links it to Dickson's emphasis on compulsory figures for his skaters.



I love how much he discussed Matt Savoie by the way. I really do find his step sequences outstanding, like these:

Matthew SAVOIE 2006 Olympics LP

youtu.be

Matt Savoie - 2005 US Nationals LP

youtu.be

Now with HIM I don't actually care about the lack of a quad, because I can watch his beautiful rhythm and choreography all day long. And of course, he still had giant 3As with difficult transitions like that hydroblade in, and correct edges on both flip and lutz. And wasn't doing awkward, flailing body movement with weak free leg positioning like this, which you'd think someone with outstanding basic skating would have the ability to avoid.

He didn’t say anything negative about anyone. He just mentioned who needed more figures training.

Hard to compare skaters from two different era. I will say The year Before Jeremy made it big in seniors I remember his scores below Braden Overett in skating skills and overall PCs. Of course Braden wasn’t skating through out Jeremy’s career so I can’t say whether Jeremy caught up with Braden at his ‘peak’.

Savioe was described as one of the best by Kurt Browning during commentary

 

[On My Own]

He didn’t say anything negative about anyone. He just mentioned who needed more figures training.

Yep! I appreciate the interview, by the way, I think I might have read it before, but completely forgot.

Savioe was described as one of the best by Kurt Browning during commentary

I think it was 2006 Nationals, going to link that here too.

M. SAVOIE - 2006 US NATIONALS - FS

MATT SAVOIE - 2006 US NATIONALS - FS

www.youtube.com

What I appreciate about his transitions, is that I 100% think quite a few of those being used properly in terms of phrasing. Not all of them, but quite a few of them, which I just don't expect from figure skating. Guy even did a forward spiral into a 3Lz here, most would just do a back spiral, so difficulty too.

eta: turned out to be his (also beautiful) sp lol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwCxEkmEP3c&ab_channel=SKATING102

 

[BittyBug]

Guy even did a forward spiral into a 3Lz here, most would just do a back spiral, so difficulty too.

3 salchow.

 

[Rukia]

Since we are talking about Matt Savoie I'm going to make a bold statement that will probably get multiple skaters' ubers out for my blood but his Adagio for Strings short is the best skating program ever (and also he was robbed at 2005 US Nats in the short).

 

[Trillian]

Since we are talking about Matt Savoie I'm going to make a bold statement that will probably get multiple skaters' ubers out for my blood but his Adagio for Strings short is the best skating program ever (and also he was robbed at 2005 US Nats in the short).

I’d have to go back and watch it before I could decide if I want to co-sign “best ever,” but in general yes: justice for Matt Savoie! He and Ryan Jahnke were by far my favorite US men for two full Olympic cycles (I think they were both working with Tom Dickson as choreographer, too). Savoie in particular does not get remembered enough for how fantastic he was.

 

[VGThuy]

Tom Dickson is my favorite choreographer for singles. Props to Phillip Mills in incorporating flow of upper-body (Michelle Kwan's upper body and movement was at her best when she skated his programs).

 

[mattiecat13]

Since we are talking about Matt Savoie I'm going to make a bold statement that will probably get multiple skaters' ubers out for my blood but his Adagio for Strings short is the best skating program ever (and also he was robbed at 2005 US Nats in the short).

One of my all-time favorite short programs. I was lucky enough to see it in person and I had chills.

 

[Sylvia]

Jacob Sanchez just posted to his IG Story a not-so-bad quad attempt - low and probably 2-footed landing, but slow and steady progress! Fingers crossed he gets a JGP assignment this year!

I think it was a 4S?

Jacob was attempting both 3A and 4S in early club competitions last year and was getting them called <<.
Here's a 4S practice clip he shared back in October 2021: https://www.instagram.com/p/CVEYFVmj821/

Happy Belated 16th Birthday to Jacob! (April 23)

 

[SkateFanBerlin]

Since we are talking about Matt Savoie I'm going to make a bold statement that will probably get multiple skaters' ubers out for my blood but his Adagio for Strings short is the best skating program ever (and also he was robbed at 2005 US Nats in the short).

Don`t know about best but the Adagio for Strings deserves someone like Isabeau or Jason to do again. So poinant

 

[baramin]

I’d have to go back and watch it before I could decide if I want to co-sign “best ever,” but in general yes: justice for Matt Savoie! He and Ryan Jahnke were by far my favorite US men for two full Olympic cycles (I think they were both working with Tom Dickson as choreographer, too). Savoie in particular does not get remembered enough for how fantastic he was.

Matt Savoie was always such a joy to watch, and had one of the most rewarding career closes to see as a fan--chronically underscored every year at nationals, only to finally have a real breakthrough in 2006 and not only make it to the Olympics, but finish an outstanding-for-him 7th? (5th in the long? What could have been if he'd brought his lutz to Italy with him!) He was out there doing fiddly, innovative transitions & moves in the field long before IJS was a thought in anyone's mind. And, given how the 'body type' discussion occasionally comes up in terms of skaters being able to achieve quality PCS scores, he wasn't a skater with the best lines or obvious flexibility, and yet he had such quality of movement, both in terms of blade on ice and how his upper body flowed, that his artistry was undeniable. He understood what his choreography meant on both a technical and musical level, and it showed. I don't understand how Tom Dickson didn't become as popular as Lori Nichols or some of the other big names, unless he prefers a smaller stable of skaters.

Also, I maintain that Ryan Jahnke's LP at 2000 Nats was one of the most egregious victims of chacking in history. It was absolutely spellbinding, and yet never broadcast

 

[Trillian]

Matt Savoie was always such a joy to watch, and had one of the most rewarding career closes to see as a fan--chronically underscored every year at nationals, only to finally have a real breakthrough in 2006 and not only make it to the Olympics, but finish an outstanding-for-him 7th? (5th in the long? What could have been if he'd brought his lutz to Italy with him!)

Yes, and one thing that made it enjoyable to watch is that I can vividly remember that he was not considered a particularly strong second-mark skater as a junior and for his first year or two in seniors. In retrospect I would guess the fundamentals were probably there and he just had a more introverted performing style than some of the kids who lean more easily into engaging with the audience. But he worked so hard at developing the things that made him stand out as a performer and I agree that it was so satisfying to see the way it paid off.

And let’s take a moment to appreciate that he also finished college and a master’s degree as (IIRC) a full-time student in the middle of all that. I know the shape of the competitive season has changed a little since then, but … not that much.

Also, I maintain that Ryan Jahnke's LP at 2000 Nats was one of the most egregious victims of chacking in history. It was absolutely spellbinding, and yet never broadcast

It’s on YouTube, FWIW. I just rewatched it a week or two ago (can’t remember why he popped into my head - might be the first time I’ve watched one of his programs since he retired). He definitely had technique issues on the jumps, but the rest of it was phenomenal for that era.

 

[skatingguy]

Since we are talking about Matt Savoie I'm going to make a bold statement that will probably get multiple skaters' ubers out for my blood but his Adagio for Strings short is the best skating program ever (and also he was robbed at 2005 US Nats in the short).

 

[VGThuy]

Since we're talking US Mens skaters of the past who we love, I've always personally loved Ryan Jahnke's 2003-04 Brazilian medley LP:

 

[baramin]

It’s on YouTube, FWIW.

Thanks for this!

The U.S. has such a rich history of phenomenal mens skaters with inconsistent jumps--maybe some day we'll figure out how to pair up one of the coaches turning out artistic youngsters with a jump doctor.

 

[jlai]

Don’t forget Braden Overett’s Pirate of the Caribbeans. Is there a video somewhere?

Jahnke - Brazilian program and Grieg
Savior- I love ragtime. Mission deserves a mention.
Alex Johnson/ Beatles
And of course many of Jeremy’s programs which I loved.

 

[Karen-W]

No to harsh on anyone's vibing trip down memory lane, but could y'all create an historic US Men's thread in the Trash Can?

I like popping in here for current news.

 

[Lacey]

ABSOLUTELY GORGEOUS PROGRAM, SHOULD HAVE WON ANY YEAR!!!

 

[jlai]

No to harsh on anyone's vibing trip down memory lane, but could y'all create an historic US Men's thread in the Trash Can?

I like popping in here for current news.

I don't mind, though I think there will be another thread drift before it hits page 32. (We are bored afterall)

 

[Vagabond]

I like popping in here for current news.

In late April?