airgelaal
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Two very proud and very neutral russian figure skating coaches. I believe that the education of z-values is included in the curriculum along with Lutz and spirals
ISU Statement on Russia's war against Ukraine - Participation in international competitions of Skaters and Officials from Russia and Belarus
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That's great to read. I'm already dreading what the ISU could possibly come up with in their next Congress regarding Russian skaters.
Karen-W
How long do we have to wait for GP assignments?
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Nothing that is likely to pass unless the situation in Ukraine changes drastically, I hope.
Alilou
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Yes! Individuals may still be let in, but there will be no bullshit like the Russian Olympic Committee team. The Russian and Belarusian Olympic Committees will not be invited!
"The teams from Russia and Belarus will not receive formal invitations to participate in next year's Olympic Games in Paris because of the two countries' aggression against Ukraine, the International Olympic Committee announced in a statement on Thursday."
"The teams from Russia and Belarus will not receive formal invitations to participate in next year's Olympic Games in Paris because of the two countries' aggression against Ukraine, the International Olympic Committee announced in a statement on Thursday."
VGThuy
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I wonder how Ukraine will respond. The last thing I've read was that they did not want individuals holding Russian passports to participate either, and would boycott if they were allowed to do so.
Going by what @airgelaal has been saying in the Other Sports board, I'm not sure I'd celebrate just yet. https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/th...-sports-worldwide.109484/page-16#post-6452296
Alilou
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Yes, I know. There's a loooong Q&A from the IOC - I haven't read it all, but can see there's a lot to unpack there, including that individuals will be let in. But at least there won't be official Russian or Belarusian delegations. At least we can celebrate that.
airgelaal
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The Sports Ministry changed its decree today. Now under the ban are competitions where russians and belarusians compete under their own flag or simply declare their nationality. Although I have little idea how to control the last condition
Well. Sounds like they're looking out for their own athletes. They don't know if Russians/Belarusians will be there or not, so might as well not force Ukrainians to withdraw. It would be even more unfair to them than what's already happening.
Sylvia
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Ivan Shmuratko's tweet today (Sept. 6, 2023): https://twitter.com/v4no__/status/1699304085298512172
Karen-W
How long do we have to wait for GP assignments?
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Well, there's not much that can be done about the skaters who live & train in Russia but represent other countries.
Sylvia
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Originally posted in the OES News thread on June 21, 2023:
www.lrt.lt
Sept .13:
www.lrt.lt
The Lithuanian government has started the process to revoke Margarita Drobiazko’s citizenship due to her participation in one of Navka’s shows a year ago:
Lithuanian Lawmakers Start Motion To Revoke Citizenship Of Figure Skater Over Event In Russia
Lithuanian lawmakers have initiated a process to take away the citizenship of Moscow-born figure skater Margarita Drobiazko over her participation in an event in Russia in August 2022, Lithuania's National Radio and Television reported on June 21.www.rferl.org
On Friday, September 15, 2023:
President strips Russian ice dancer Drobiazko of Lithuanian citizenship
Lithuanian President Gitanas Nausėda on Friday signed a decree on stripping Russian ice dancer Margarita Drobiazko of he...
www.lrt.lt
Sept .13:
Ice dancer Drobiazko defends herself in open letter as commission looks to revoke her Lithuanian citizenship
The ice dancer Margarita Drobiazko, who risks losing her Lithuanian citizenship due to performances in Russia, says she ...
www.lrt.lt
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Hedwig
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There are not many things that are truly unforgivable.
Torture, killing, whatever Russia is doing right now? THAT is unforgivable
Torture, killing, whatever Russia is doing right now? THAT is unforgivable
Yes, I completely agree- there are no many things that are truly unforgivable. Indeed, it is so.
I am from the Baltic States. Certainly, sometimes it is not right thing to comment at all, more over with a spontaneous reaction as I did. However it is, I stand for what i said. I am taking this revocation in much broader perspective.
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Hedwig
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I would be interested in your reasoning if you would not mind?
irenemulindwairen
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Howevil and wicked people can be.
Holy Headband
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The reason is that if someone is your citizen, that's not a conditional privilege. It's for life. Revoking passports for political views (or even crimes, as in the case of Shamima Begum in the UK) cheapens the value of everyone's passport and weakens people's bond to the state they rely on for safety and the provision of public services.I would be interested in your reasoning if you would not mind?
Turning naturalised citizens into an underclass whose citizenship depends on their political correctness threatens the quality of civic life in your country and will eventually undermine the value of 'real' citizens' passports as well.
Let's say Drobiazko's citizenship is revoked. Then why not revoke the citizenship of other Lithuanians who've expressed support for Russia or blamed NATO for the invasion of Ukraine? Oh, because Drobiazko has another citizenship she can use? Well, what if some of those other Lithuanians have dual German or Swedish or Spanish citizenship? Then their Lithuanian citizenship can be revoked, right? But what if a few months from now Spain also decides to revoke the citizenship of people who've expressed sympathy for Russia? Oh, then they can just ask Russia for citizenship if they love it so much? Then should every Lithuanian who says that the claim that China is detaining, torturing and sterilising Uyghurs in concentration camps is a CIA plot or whatever be told they're no longer Lithuanian and should become Chinese instead? Hey, actually why not just round up all the Lithuanians who've criticised the government and say they're, oh, Iranian intelligence assets for example and just burn their passports and deport them to Iran? Wouldn't it be much easier to govern constructively then?
Again, a passport is not a joke. It guarantees that some government somewhere has an obligation to you. You're also obligated to follow its laws and if you break them you can be subject to penalties like prison, property seizure and even execution, if that's what the law says. But your passport is also proof that you have certain inalienable rights. Saying that someone's passport should be forfeit because of their political views is incredibly shortsighted if it comes from a regular person and incredibly cynical if it comes from a politician with the power to make it happen.
Even Jacob Rees-Mogg, one of the most regressive politicians in Great Britain, took Shamima Begum's side and opposed the revocation of her citizenship when she travelled to Turkey to join ISIS when by all rights he should love the idea of a brown girl being thrown out of the UK for working against the west. But she's a UK citizen and as loathsome as Rees-Mogg is, he realises the value of citizenship.
Lithuania should have been more judicious before they naturalised Drobiazko; once you give someone a passport, you should never be able to take it back.
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airgelaal
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And if you decide to get married, then you do not have the right to divorce.
Let's be frank. For many athletes, another passport is nothing more than a piece of paper. They forget about this piece of paper as soon as their sports career ends. I agree that countries should take passports more seriously, but I don't remember Lithuania handing them out to everyone.
Margarita is a russian citizen and acts in the interests of the country of russia, which contradicts the interests of the country of Lithuania. In my opinion, Margarita herself chose her citizenship, and Lithuania only confirmed it.
caseyedwards
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This is more of the same war on ethnic Russians common in all Baltic states since 2004 when they got into nato
Hedwig
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You make some very good points that I agree with.
I disagree with the principle, however, not to do something because in this particular instance it is the right choice but there may be other instances when doing something like this is the wrong choice. I know that this can set a precedent and can be a slippery slope so I agree that we have to be careful but I disagree stronly with the notion (not only in this particular issue) that we can not do something that is obviously the right choice because then an "what about" starts about issues that are sometimes only very very far apart connected.
Here, I don't feel strongly either way to be honest but I am leaning on applauding the revoke (revoking? Sorry about my English, I hope it is clear what I mean).
I think about Anastasia Gubanova who says in interviews that for her nothing has changed and she is still "the same Russian Nastia" - in sports, the taking of citizenship is less about a deep felt need to be a citizen of that country but just a formality for many in order to compete.
This is hard to judge and will need to be considered carefully. Maybe even grant fewer citizenships, I am not sure, but this is a different scenario than, say, someone who fled his/her country for political reasons and now wants to stay in the country.
Dobriazko likely never set foot into Lithuania again after the Olympics and could not care less about not having this citizenship anymore. But I understand that Lithuania feels differently and does not want to be associated with her anymore.
Maximillian
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Wait, am I missing something, is she not still married to Povilas? I would assume he would return to Lithuania to see family, would not his wife accompany him, at least some times?
airgelaal
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I don't think so. It is more convenient to have an EU passport than a russian passport
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As the wife of a naturalized US citizen, I shudder that another Trump administration would try to deprive Americans of their citizenship or make them second-class citizens. My husband should have the same right as I do to go to a rally and yell that Trump is a Fascist idiot.
So I see both sides here. Drobiasko, whom I met years ago, is an opinionated lady and I can see her misguided loyalty as normal. As much as I want Lithuania to strenuously oppose support for Russia, this might not be the best way to do it.
So I see both sides here. Drobiasko, whom I met years ago, is an opinionated lady and I can see her misguided loyalty as normal. As much as I want Lithuania to strenuously oppose support for Russia, this might not be the best way to do it.
airgelaal
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Let me remind you that this is not about Margarita’s views. She worked for Navka. For a person who is under EU sanctions. Thus, she received money from the russian budget. Margarita simply chose money. If she had refused to participate in the show, I think the issue would have been resolved. But money is more important, yes.
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Then fine her double the amount she made. Punish economic sins economically. There are always acceptable punishments for breaching sanctions.
Hedwig
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I understand that. I just find it difficult to judge a situation by "but then what happens in this scenario?"
I understand that it is important to keep that in mind and not to set a precedent but I feel very very strongly about not doing a "what about" in every of those decisions but to look at the special circumstance and decide there. Otherwise, nothing ever would be done. Like the whole support of Ukraine against Russia - we have sooo many people do "but what about this" and "therefore there should not be a support for Ukraine because no one help in 20xx in this conflict" and I think this whataboutism really obstrucs justice. Like I said - I feel very strongly about looking at a particular situation and not what could maybe happen in another state with totally different circumstances.
But - I don't really care (like I said before) wether nor not Doriazko keeps her citizenship or not (or if she is married and where her partner lives - I don't follow her) - I just disagreed with the poster who said that this is unforgivable. Not many things are and that is not one of them and I concur to the Lithuanian government to have thought about this. They are very strict anyway about giving away citizenships and I guess we will never again see a skater compete under their flag if they were not born there.
airgelaal
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This would seem quite absurd. She would continue to skate in the show, and Lithuania continued to threaten her with fines. Moreover, how to collect fines from her if she lives in russia? Margarita, like many other russians, would continue to have fun and openly laugh at all these sanctions and fines.
In my opinion, by her actions she showed that she does not value her Lithuanian citizenship, and also that she does not need it. As I understand it, it was not Lithuania that offered her citizenship, it was Margarita herself who asked for it. If she doesn’t need this citizenship now, if her actions discredit Lithuania, then why can’t Lithuania return the status quo?
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As I said, there are good arguments here, and this is the first time I’ve been queasy about an anti-Russian action. I’m nervous about revoking citizenship for anything short of treason.
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