Vaytsekhovskaya's interview with Irina Slutskaya

[lala]

First and foremost, this thread has already ventured into the unknown and I'm on the current topic. Thanks

2nd you are, of course, wrong about Plush and Evan and I am, of course right. But I can break it down for you:
SP:
Plush TES 51.10 PCS 39.75
Evan TES 48.30 PCS 42.00

LP:
Plush: TES 82.81 PCS 82.80
Evan: TES 84.57 PCS 82.80

Plush: TES Total 51.10 + 82.80= 133.90
Evan: TES Total 48.30 + 84.57= 132.87
133.90>132.87

Plush: PCS Total 39.75 + 82.80= 122.55
Evan: PCS Total 42.00 + 82.80= 124.80
122.55<124.80

Seems like the whole world fails to fact check. Sorry but no one pressed your buzzer to comment and comment uneducated of the facts. So Silence!

Oh..you are very smart if you want to prove your truth. Plush was the first after the SP. Evan beat him in LP. Look at the TES points.
And Evgeni Plushenko was/is the figure skating for many people's mind in the world espcially in Europe. So you don't be so mocking with "The judged subjectively decided Evan's artistic impression and program components to be greater than Plush's and his technical content. It is what it is....figure skating"

 

[stlcomet]

I give no respect to an internet troll who makes frame by frame analysis of, for example, Medvedeva's flutz and uses footage of Medvedeva's flip (three turn entrance and all) claiming it is Medvedeva's lutz to pick apart the inside edge take off. Even more ridiculous is the fact she could have used actual Lutz footage, but since it was a questionable edge and makes a stronger argument to give it an ! rather than an e, she would rather use footage of the flip instead, that is completely fake analysis.

I've also wasted my time before looking at her videos before I knew she was a troll, so it is more a warning to other posters to not waste their time on it. So no I didn't even waste 1 second watching the link you posted except to see who posted it and know it's not worth my time.

This video has nothing to do with Zhena and her Flutz. If the poster allegedly made a mistake or gave inaccurate examples years after making this one about Yuna and Lena, it is what it is. I haven't seen it but I have seen many others I found very informative. I wouldn't have taken the time to post the link if I didn't think other users might find it interesting. So I just ask that we let them make their own decisions in whether to view it or not. I'm grateful you wanted to give your opinion and to give a disclaimer, but please respect that I don't agree or i wouldn't have posted the link.

 

[stlcomet]

Oh..you are very smart if you want to prove your truth. Plush was the first after the SP. Evan beat him in LP. Look at the TES points.
And Evgeni Plushenko was/is the figure skating for many people's mind in the world espcially in Europe. So you don't be so mocking with "The judged subjectively decided Evan's artistic impression and program components to be greater than Plush's and his technical content. It is what it is....figure skating"

I'm not 'proving my truth'. It's canon. It's a fact. It's in the history books. Those are the literal scores from the event. There is no opinion here. Nothing subjective. The facts are the facts.

And Figure Skating is partially a subjective sport....it is what it is. Part of the scoring is judging art and judging art is subjective. The judges did in fact subjectively say that Evan was a better skater with higher PCS. I just stated the facts, whether we like it or not, where you did not and I simply provided hard indisputable evidence to correct your incorrect statement.

 

[alchemy void]

I thought this thread peaked with Rosie O’Donnell, but a Koola King debate has just raised the bar.

 

[StasiyaGalustyanLove]

I'm not 'proving my truth'. It's canon. It's a fact. It's in the history books. Those are the literal scores from the event. There is no opinion here. Nothing subjective. The facts are the facts.

And Figure Skating is partially a subjective sport....it is what it is. Part of the scoring is judging art and judging art is subjective. The judges did in fact subjectively say that Evan was a better skater with higher PCS. I just stated the facts, whether we like it or not, where you did not and I simply provided hard indisputable evidence to correct your incorrect statement.

I do not agree, these are not fact's and I don't think it is allowed to shoot off a cannon at a skating event. I asked my Wife, she said Michael Wiess's's parents bought a large toy cannon to shoot off a bang after his USA program but it was obfuscated by official's. That is a fact!

I think Irina and Plush are bitter they lost to USA skaters and tried to make up lies, also not facts. This interview has many non facts presented as facts it is rotten journalism. Yucky.

 

[gkelly]

I do not agree, these are not fact's and I don't think it is allowed to shoot off a cannon at a skating event.

As I have recently become aware, it is in fact against USFS rules to use a cannon on the ice in a showcase event. From the Showcase Guidelines:

A mandatory deduction of 1.0 may be applied by each judge as instructed by the referee for the following violations:
...
*For insurance reasons no propulsion devices will be permitted. This includes items such as cannons and trampolines. Apparatus such as these, which could be used to assist skaters with jumping into the air, are NOT permitted.
...
*No projectiles.

 

[lala]

I'm not 'proving my truth'. It's canon. It's a fact. It's in the history books. Those are the literal scores from the event. There is no opinion here. Nothing subjective. The facts are the facts.

And Figure Skating is partially a subjective sport....it is what it is. Part of the scoring is judging art and judging art is subjective. The judges did in fact subjectively say that Evan was a better skater with higher PCS. I just stated the facts, whether we like it or not, where you did not and I simply provided hard indisputable evidence to correct your incorrect statement.

Incorrect statement?
LP:
Plush: TES 82.81 PCS 82.80 - Interpretation- 8,75 , Peformance- 8,8, SS- 8,4
Evan: TES 84.57 PCS 82.80 - Interpretation- 8,40 , Peformance-8,5 , SS- 8,2

these marks define a skater and the "artistic impression" in PCS..so.. and you can't say Plu was the favorite of the judges or he was overscored there...... The campaigne started against him after he announced his comeback. You can be sure Plush easily could skate Evan's program but you can tell this about Evan.
You could read my "incorrect statement" in many FS fans' posts then. For those Fs fans Evan beat Plu in technic.

 

[kwanette]

I'm not 'proving my truth'. It's canon. It's a fact. It's in the history books. Those are the literal scores from the event. There is no opinion here. Nothing subjective. The facts are the facts.

And Figure Skating is partially a subjective sport....it is what it is. Part of the scoring is judging art and judging art is subjective. The judges did in fact subjectively say that Evan was a better skater with higher PCS. I just stated the facts, whether we like it or not, where you did not and I simply provided hard indisputable evidence to correct your incorrect statement.

Evan and Plushy tied in PCS for the free skate. (82.80) Evan won TES.

 

[stlcomet]

Incorrect statement?
LP:
Plush: TES 82.81 PCS 82.80 - Interpretation- 8,75 , Peformance- 8,8, SS- 8,4
Evan: TES 84.57 PCS 82.80 - Interpretation- 8,40 , Peformance-8,5 , SS- 8,2

these marks define a skater and the "artistic impression" in PCS..so.. and you can't say Plu was the favorite of the judges or he was overscored there...... The campaigne started against him after he announced his comeback. You can be sure Plush easily could skate Evan's program but you can tell this about Evan.
You could read my "incorrect statement" in many FS fans' posts then. For those Fs fans Evan beat Plu in technic.

Something is being lost in translation here. You are only showing the Long Program score and that's only half the picture. The overall placement was decided by adding the short program and long program TES (Technical Elements) and PCS (Program Components) together.

TES, Technical elements, are the athletic parts of a program (i.e. jumps, spins, foot work). Program Components, PCS, are SS = Skating Skills; TR = Transitions; PE = Performance/Execution; CH = Choreography; all added together and then by a multiplier.

I was never saying I personally felt either way about the results. I can respect, but could literally care less what fans on this subject feel. I was just stating the judges scores and the judges overall, not me or Scott Hamilton or Johnny Weir or whomever, overall found Plush's TES to be higher and Evan's PCS to be higher. You were just simply wrong by stating that Evan won the Gold by his TES, and that's ok.

And no I wouldn't assume Plush could skate Evan's program or vice versa. How could we? They were two different skaters with different attributes, one of which was PCS which the judges scored Evan overall higher in. Plus, Plush lost so why would anyone feel his scores were inflated?

I blame Slutskaya for this!

 

[stlcomet]

Evan and Plushy tied in PCS for the free skate. (82.80) Evan won TES.

You came in a little late on the discussion. Look on page 10 to get the full convo. I already broke down the scores.
SP:
Plush TES 51.10 PCS 39.75
Evan TES 48.30 PCS 42.00

LP:
Plush: TES 82.81 PCS 82.80
Evan: TES 84.57 PCS 82.80

Plush: TES Total 51.10 + 82.80= 133.90
Evan: TES Total 48.30 + 84.57= 132.87
133.90>132.87

Plush: PCS Total 39.75 + 82.80= 122.55
Evan: PCS Total 42.00 + 82.80= 124.80
122.55<124.80

 

[kwanette]

You came in a little late on the discussion. Look on page 10 to get the full convo. I already broke down the scores.
SP:
Plush TES 51.10 PCS 39.75
Evan TES 48.30 PCS 42.00

LP:
Plush: TES 82.81 PCS 82.80
Evan: TES 84.57 PCS 82.80

Plush: TES Total 51.10 + 82.80= 133.90
Evan: TES Total 48.30 + 84.57= 132.87
133.90>132.87

Plush: PCS Total 39.75 + 82.80= 122.55
Evan: PCS Total 42.00 + 82.80= 124.80
122.55<124.80

I did see it and read it, I just found the "content" a bit confusing.

 

[stlcomet]

I did see it and read it, I just found the "content" a bit confusing.

Good grief. What's the "content" confusion. Its literally 1+1=2 math and math is the universal language.

Plush: 2010 Olympic Games (OG) PCS Total = Short 39.75 + Long 82.80= 122.55

Evan: 2010 OG PCS Total = Short 42.00 + Long 82.80= 124.80

Plush 2010 OG PCS event total is 122.55 and is less than Evan's 2010 OG PCS event total of 124.80. Therefore, Evan's event total PCS are higher than Plush PCS.

 

[Tinami Amori]

My recollection of Plushy's comments about his 2nd place in Vancouver:
- he felt that his quad should have given him higher Tech marks just by few points (which he thought would be enough to win), the exact comment was "it's hard to predict what happens, if a programme with a quad gets marked the same as with a triple". then he said something like "the fact of a quad present in a programme raises the programme by several levels of difficulty, because of the preparation and energy it takes".

- another discussion was about "computer issues" related to "randomness" of dropping 2 judges from the score panel, to calculate the placements. had the computer randomly selected two other judges' marks, Plush would have won. And that interestingly enough.. the computer somehow selected to eliminate the marks of the 2 judges who placed Plushenko higher than Evan..

https://www.novayagazeta.ru/articles/2010/02/24/4570-plyuschenko-ne-proigral-laysachek-vyigral

short translation: "Fs comps are judged by 9 judges, marks are given for elements and component. But the results are based on the marks of 7 judges, because the computer randomly drops 2 judges' marks. Then from the remaining 7 sets of marks, 2 more are dropped, the highest and lowest. The final mark is an arithmetic mean of the remaining 5 marks. (in case with Plushenko's marks) if the computer for example, did the initial random elimination of 2 marks, and selected Judge #2 and #5, then he would be the Champion. His Tech score would be 84.95 (instead of 82.71) and components would be 85.70 (instead of 82.80), so the total for FS would be 170.65 (instead of 165.51) and the total score (SP and LP) 261.50, which would be 3.83 higher than Evan's score. However, the computer programme "erased" the marks of those judges who were leaning towards Plushenko..

Соревнования по фигурному катанию оценивают 9 судей: ставят баллы как за элементы программы, так и за ее компоненты. Но результаты спортсменов зависят от мнения только 7 судей, так как компьютер — каждый раз случайным образом — отбрасывает оценки двух арбитров. После чего из оставшихся 7 оценок выбрасываются лучшая и худшая. В итоге «стоимость» каждого элемента или компонента вычисляется как среднее арифметическое из 5 оставшихся. Если бы компьютер проигнорировал оценки 2-го и 5-го арбитров, то Евгений Плющенко стал бы чемпионом. За технику он получил бы 84,95 (вместо 82,71), за компоненты — 85,70 (вместо 82,80), в сумме за произвольную программу — 170,65 (вместо 165,51), а в итоге — 261,50, что на 3,83 больше, чем у Лайсачека. Однако программа «стерла» тех, кто проявил симпатию к российскому фигуристу.

 

[quartz]

There’s way too many numbers about people who aren’t even Irina and this isn’t my favorite thread anymore.

 

[stlcomet]

My recollection of Plushy's comments about his 2nd place in Vancouver:
- he felt that his quad should have given him higher Tech marks just by few points (which he thought would be enough to win), the exact comment was "it's hard to predict what happens, if a programme with a quad gets marked the same as with a triple". then he said something like "the fact of a quad present in a programme raises the programme by several levels of difficulty, because of the preparation and energy it takes".

- another discussion was about "computer issues" related to "randomness" of dropping 2 judges from the score panel, to calculate the placements. had the computer randomly selected two other judges' marks, Plush would have won. And that interestingly enough.. the computer somehow selected to eliminate the marks of the 2 judges who placed Plushenko higher than Evan..

https://www.novayagazeta.ru/articles/2010/02/24/4570-plyuschenko-ne-proigral-laysachek-vyigral

short translation: "Fs comps are judged by 9 judges, marks are given for elements and component. But the results are based on the marks of 7 judges, because the computer randomly drops 2 judges' marks. Then from the remaining 7 sets of marks, 2 more are dropped, the highest and lowest. The final mark is an arithmetic mean of the remaining 5 marks. (in case with Plushenko's marks) if the computer for example, did the initial random elimination of 2 marks, and selected Judge #2 and #5, then he would be the Champion. His Tech score would be 84.95 (instead of 82.71) and components would be 85.70 (instead of 82.80), so the total for FS would be 170.65 (instead of 165.51) and the total score (SP and LP) 261.50, which would be 3.83 higher than Evan's score. However, the computer programme "erased" the marks of those judges who were leaning towards Plushenko..

Соревнования по фигурному катанию оценивают 9 судей: ставят баллы как за элементы программы, так и за ее компоненты. Но результаты спортсменов зависят от мнения только 7 судей, так как компьютер — каждый раз случайным образом — отбрасывает оценки двух арбитров. После чего из оставшихся 7 оценок выбрасываются лучшая и худшая. В итоге «стоимость» каждого элемента или компонента вычисляется как среднее арифметическое из 5 оставшихся. Если бы компьютер проигнорировал оценки 2-го и 5-го арбитров, то Евгений Плющенко стал бы чемпионом. За технику он получил бы 84,95 (вместо 82,71), за компоненты — 85,70 (вместо 82,80), в сумме за произвольную программу — 170,65 (вместо 165,51), а в итоге — 261,50, что на 3,83 больше, чем у Лайсачека. Однако программа «стерла» тех, кто проявил симпатию к российскому фигуристу.

That was an excellent read. Thanks! I had actually never heard the 2nd story with actual numbers involved. That's a huge swing of points.

 

[Japanfan]

First, Honda’s short program was Don Quixote. You’re mixing his SP with his FS, because the 4T attempt in the long resulted in a big stepout. His free skate was Concierto de Aranjuez, and I really thought that program was a masterpiece at the time but his skating doesn’t hold up so well watching from IJS eyes.

Correct, it was not DQ but Aranjuez, but i was talking about Honda's FS. Goebel probably did make an attempt to listen to music, for me it was not as good of "artistically" as Honda's. But you're right, the placements for all others (than P and Y) could have been anyplace.

I adored those two programs from Takeshi. He is one of the musical skaters ever, IMO.

 

[Japanfan]

I asked my Wife, she said Michael Wiess's's parents bought a large toy cannon to shoot off a bang after his USA program but it was obfuscated by official's. That is a fact!

You're kidding, of course.

But, I do remember that Weiss rented a hummer in anticipation of winning World's in 2003, at home in DC. It was part of a visualization strategy.

The strategy didn't work.

 

[Tinami Amori]

There’s way too many numbers about people who aren’t even Irina and this isn’t my favorite thread anymore.

Here is some "Irina"...

- She is now part of the organization "Healthy Living, after 80" (meaning "years"), where she conducts walking/hiking trips called "Northern Walking" (or "Scandinavian Walking"), where she takes senior citizens out for a walking tour..
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bt0ZYn9nJ7L/
https://bm24.ru/upload/resize_cache/iblock/af8/730_487_2/af86ea69e447568413a0b1864bc1673b.JPG
https://gtn-pravda.ru/static/2015/02/skadin.jpg
https://images.aif.ru/015/606/a969473a1cc77489f8370fae3c1e3092.jpg

 

[stlcomet]

Here is some "Irina"...

- She is now part of the organization "Healthy Living, after 80" (meaning "years"), where she conducts walking/hiking trips called "Northern Walking" (or "Scandinavian Walking"), where she takes senior citizens out for a walking tour..
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bt0ZYn9nJ7L/
https://bm24.ru/upload/resize_cache/iblock/af8/730_487_2/af86ea69e447568413a0b1864bc1673b.JPG
https://gtn-pravda.ru/static/2015/02/skadin.jpg
https://images.aif.ru/015/606/a969473a1cc77489f8370fae3c1e3092.jpg

Hold up....I don't follow Irina on Insta because I was never a fan but....didn't she just turn 40? Holy cow, she looks great. She literally looks younger now then she did when she was 16. Good for her delusional self!

 

[bardtoob]

Purple

 

[lala]

My recollection of Plushy's comments about his 2nd place in Vancouver:
- he felt that his quad should have given him higher Tech marks just by few points (which he thought would be enough to win), the exact comment was "it's hard to predict what happens, if a programme with a quad gets marked the same as with a triple". then he said something like "the fact of a quad present in a programme raises the programme by several levels of difficulty, because of the preparation and energy it takes".

- another discussion was about "computer issues" related to "randomness" of dropping 2 judges from the score panel, to calculate the placements. had the computer randomly selected two other judges' marks, Plush would have won. And that interestingly enough.. the computer somehow selected to eliminate the marks of the 2 judges who placed Plushenko higher than Evan..

https://www.novayagazeta.ru/articles/2010/02/24/4570-plyuschenko-ne-proigral-laysachek-vyigral

short translation: "Fs comps are judged by 9 judges, marks are given for elements and component. But the results are based on the marks of 7 judges, because the computer randomly drops 2 judges' marks. Then from the remaining 7 sets of marks, 2 more are dropped, the highest and lowest. The final mark is an arithmetic mean of the remaining 5 marks. (in case with Plushenko's marks) if the computer for example, did the initial random elimination of 2 marks, and selected Judge #2 and #5, then he would be the Champion. His Tech score would be 84.95 (instead of 82.71) and components would be 85.70 (instead of 82.80), so the total for FS would be 170.65 (instead of 165.51) and the total score (SP and LP) 261.50, which would be 3.83 higher than Evan's score. However, the computer programme "erased" the marks of those judges who were leaning towards Plushenko..

Соревнования по фигурному катанию оценивают 9 судей: ставят баллы как за элементы программы, так и за ее компоненты. Но результаты спортсменов зависят от мнения только 7 судей, так как компьютер — каждый раз случайным образом — отбрасывает оценки двух арбитров. После чего из оставшихся 7 оценок выбрасываются лучшая и худшая. В итоге «стоимость» каждого элемента или компонента вычисляется как среднее арифметическое из 5 оставшихся. Если бы компьютер проигнорировал оценки 2-го и 5-го арбитров, то Евгений Плющенко стал бы чемпионом. За технику он получил бы 84,95 (вместо 82,71), за компоненты — 85,70 (вместо 82,80), в сумме за произвольную программу — 170,65 (вместо 165,51), а в итоге — 261,50, что на 3,83 больше, чем у Лайсачека. Однако программа «стерла» тех, кто проявил симпатию к российскому фигуристу.

Yes, and we didn't talk about Inman's letter, Evan's incredible high SP scores without quad, ( he had Chan or Brown's quality in PCS), the judges ignored his prerotated 3A and wrong edged 3F in FS.( NY Times article also mentioned it)

 

[kwanfan1818]

And we didn't talk about how Plushenko was slow and lacking power in Vancouver, in those regards so diminished from his skating in the previous quad. He was in the bottom quarter in these aspects, and his PCS were hugely inflated in SS and TR.

 

[Japanfan]

And we didn't talk about how Plushenko was slow and lacking power in Vancouver, in those regards so diminished from his skating in the previous quad. He was in the bottom quarter in these aspects, and his PCS was hugely inflated in SS and TR.

I saw that competition live, and Plush certainly wasn't the skater I'd rooted for over the years in terms of Yags vs. Plush. I also some him at 2001 Worlds, he was way more impressive there.

 

[Japanfan]

Totally agree, except Russian figure skaters single and pairs/dance have for decades had two schools of different styles with in Russia itself. Moscow is typically, as you said, very traditional and classical like that current Russian pair I refuse to name and their atrocities in music selection (Candy Man for an OG FS?...Really!? Barf) and Pogo and Yags as example. St Petersburg school has a much more out of the box avant garde style like that handsome Kolyada and Plush. It's always fun to see them asian carp fight over style every year.

I'm aware of the two Russian schools. But IMHO, even skaters coming out of the St. Petersburg school (often) still have that classical Russian style in terms of basics.

 

[bardtoob]

Irina Slutskaya is lucky none of her wins were ever so controversial.

 

[Kelvster]

Her wins at 2003 euros and 2005 euros were! The elegant Suzanna poykio wuzrobbed!

 

[Deleted member 40371]

Her wins at 2003 euros and 2005 euros were! The elegant Suzanna poykio wuzrobbed!

2003 Suzana was soooo robbed ... and 2005 with level 1 spins footsteps, 1 Axel and 2F, sure Poykio should have won...Finnish ladies are rarely robbed, they usually are the one who are robbing others...

 

[Simone411]

Well, one thing's for sure. I made me another cup of Mocha coffee while trying to keep up and read all the info on these pages, assumptions, prejudices, this favorite or that favorite, my favorite is better than your favorite, no, not going there because of all the unfair judging, but then again the judging was fair because my favorite won, Irina should have won over Kwan, Irina should have won over Sarah, etc. etc. etc. ...

Another thing that's for sure is that I have the 2002 Olympics Ladies Short and Long Programs on one VHS tape, and that will be my next project during the off season after the 2019 Worlds. It will be fun making the videos of all the programs that was shown on TV.

 

[lala]

And we didn't talk about how Plushenko was slow and lacking power in Vancouver, in those regards so diminished from his skating in the previous quad. He was in the bottom quarter in these aspects, and his PCS were hugely inflated in SS and TR.

Plushenko received similar or a little bit higher marks for his SS since the IJS was introduced. The judges were almost uniform. And for ex in his comment Robin Cousins praised his SS in Vancouver I mentioned him because he supported Evan's victory. Don't get me wrong he didn't have the best SS but decent.

I checked his TR marks SP 6,25 LP 7,25 I don't believe he was too overscored in it especially if you check the definition of TR then.

I saw that competition live, and Plush certainly wasn't the skater I'd rooted for over the years in terms of Yags vs. Plush. I also some him at 2001 Worlds, he was way more impressive there.

Yes, I agree.

His fans also noticed it they said he was better with that reduced skating.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Plushenko received similar or a little bit higher marks for his SS since the IJS was introduced

Exactly. And since he was not close to the skater he was when he received those marks - - for example, the North Korean guy who was cut unfairly from the FS schooled him in speed, power, and flow - - his marks should have reflected it. Also, as much as he tried to project, he wasn't nearly as effective in the rink as he'd been in the past without that speed and power behind him, and his PE and In scores didn't reflect that either, although on video that wasn't clear.