2023-24 ISU Grand Prix Assignments & projected alternates

[Karen-W]

Not wishing withdrawals on anyone, but I think this is the initial ice dance alternates list:

1. McNamara/Spiridonov (USA) - GP de France
2. Ignateva / Szemko (HUN) - GP Espoo
3. Wang / Liu (CHN) - Skate Canada
4. Brown / Brown (USA) - Skate Canada
5. Orihara / Pirinen (FIN) - GP Espoo
6. Dupayage / Nabais (FRA) - GP de France
7. Bashynska / Beaumont (CAN) - GP Espoo
8. Harris / Chan (AUS) - Skate America
9. Bekker / Hernandez (GBR) - none
10. Fabbri / Ayer (CAN) - Skate Canada

Host picks Langahan/Razgulajevs and Komatsubara/Koleto are the only lower ranked teams who've got assignments.


ETA And the initial pairs alternates:

1. Roscher / Schuster (DEU) - Skate Canada
2. Osipova / Epstein (NED) - Skate America
3. Beccari / Guarise (ITA) - Skate Canada
4. Caldara / Maglio (ITA) - Skate America
5. Mokhova / Mokhov (USA) - none
6. Zhang / Yang (CHN) - none
7. Vouillamoz / Giniaux (FRA) - GP de France
8. Valesi / Piazza (ITA) - GP de France
9. Vaipan-Law / Digby (GBR) - none
10. Gamez / Korovin (PHI) - none

Smart/Dieck would actually be #1 on the Dance Alternates list - her score with Diaz from 2022 Worlds places them 13th on the SB list, so that's how they slot in for future consideration.

Same situation with Peng/Wang and Hase/Volodin - they'd be #1 & 2 on the Pairs Alternates list - Hase's score from 2022 Worlds with Seegert is higher than anyone else but Peng's score with Jin from 2022 Beijing (presuming that's what the GP Host commission used to qualify Peng/Wang as a return split couple).

I had a team meeting and my morning break was too short for me to post the full alternates lists in each discipline, but I'll get on that now that I'm on my lunch break.

 

[PRlady]

Wondering the rationale for giving Audrey Shin 2 spots.

Well, China has often invited skaters of Chinese descent, for what that’s worth.

 

[Karen-W]

Wondering the rationale for giving Audrey Shin 2 spots.

Well, China has often invited skaters of Chinese descent, for what that’s worth.

Well, she is in the WS Top 24 and 3 of the 5 in that group got 2 - You, Schizas & Shin. I suppose we could also ask what the rationale for giving Schizas 2 is, especially since Audrey's ranked 32 on the SB and Maddie's 34.

 

[SidelineSkater]

Well, China has often invited skaters of Chinese descent, for what that’s worth.

She was guaranteed one for her WS. Her season's best of 32, was one spot below Kurakova (with just one GP). Most everyone above her on the SB list received 2 invites, unless they were staying junior or Rika Kihira. The JPN ladies were going to be 3 deep at each GP, and I think that's why she likely missed out on a 2nd assignment.

 

[ice coverage]

mostly deleted ... without seeing SidelineSkater's reply above , I had written something sorta similar but not as substantive.

(To be specific re World Standings, Audrey Shin is ranked 15th.)

 

[Sylvia]

BTW, Audrey Shin is Korean-American.

If anyone sees any typos in my post #1, please let me know before the 24-hour editing window closes.

 

[Karen-W]

GP Alternates

Men 1-10
Tsuboi (SkAm)
Kataise (France)
Gorodnitsky (SCI)
Economides (NHK)
Jin (France)
Naumov (SkAm)
Orzel (SCI)
Sadovsky (SCI)
Kapeikis (SCI)
Ma (CoC)

Men 11-20
Gogolev (SkAm)
Broussard (France)
Shmuratko
Chiu (SCI)
Yoshioka (SkAm)
Starostin
Guarino Sabate
Miyake
Newnham
Samoilov

Men 21-30
Kyeong
A Selevko
Torgashev (SkAm)
Levandi (Espoo)
Zandron
Le May
Lewton Brain
Maierhofer
K Witkowski
Ha. Kim

Men 31-35
Tran
Bralin
Y Cha
Kessler
Honda

Women 1-10
Kihira (SCI)
Kurakova (SkAm)
Ziegler
Ji
An (SkAm)
Schild (Espoo)
Gutmann (SCI)
Serna (France)
Jyrkinen (France)
Matsuike

Women 11-20
Meite
Harrell
van Zundert (NHK)
Pezzetta
Hilmer
Gold
Mikutina
Seo
Ruiter (SCI)
Daleman

Women 21-27
Dupuis (SCI)
Miclette
Paganini
Sauter
Kiibus
Lang
Isaev

Pairs 1-10
Peng/Wang (Espoo)
Hase/Volodin (Espoo)
Roscher/Schuster (SCI)
Osipova/Epstein (SkAm)
Beccari/Guarise (SCI)
Caldara/Maglio (SkAm)
Mokhova/Mokhov
Zhang/Yang
Vouillamoz/Giniaux (France)
Valesi/Piazza (France)

Pairs 11-14
Vaipan-Law/Digby
Gamez/Korovin
Piegad/Strekalin
Simioli/Zarbo

Ice Dance 1-10
Smart/Dieck (SkAm)
McNamara/Spiridonov (France)
Ignateva/Szemko (Espoo)
Wang/Liu (SCI)
Brown/Brown (SCI)
Orihara/Pirinen (Espoo)
Dupayage/Nabais (France)
Bashynska/Beaumont (Espoo)
Harris/Chan (SkAm)
Bekker/Hernandez

Ice Dance 11-20
Fabbri/Ayer (SCI)
Lanaghan/Razgulajevs (SCI)
Komatsubara/Koleto (NHK)
Manni/Roethlisberger
Nosovitskaya/Nosovitskiy
Holubtsova/Bielobrov
Lagouge/Caffa
Simova/Aksenov
Gauthier/Thieren
Dozzi/Papetti

Ice Dance 21-30
Hensen/Lickers
Leccardi/Dalla Torre
Terreaux/Perron
Polibina/Golovishnikov
Bronsard/Richmond
Hancock/Fourati
Carhart/Kolosovskyi
Azroian/Gruzdev
Ramanauskaite/Kizala
Pucherova/Lysak

Ice Dance 31
Nauryzova/Datiev

Couple of points to note -

1) Japan is maxed out in Men's and Women's at every single event save for their TBD spots at NHK, so unless the skater that WDs is Japanese, then on the Men's Alternates list Gogolev & Broussard will be moved up to the first group of 10 for consideration, and on the Women's Alternates list Meite & Harrell will be moved up to the first group of 10 for consideration. Kataise, Tsuboi, Yoshioka, Miyake (men) and Kihira, Matsuike (women) are going to be the ones scrambling for those NHK TBD spots in their disciplines.

2) USA is maxed out in Ice Dance at every event save for NHK (2 entries) and the SkAm TBD spot, so unless the team that WDs is from the US or the event is NHK, then Fabbri/Ayer and Lanaghan/Razgulajevs will be moved up to the first group of 10 for consideration. McNamara/Spiridonov and the Browns are going to be fighting hard for that SkAm TBD spot (along with possibly Wolfkostin/Tsarevski and Flores/Desyatov if Desyatov gets his release in the next few weeks and they can compete at LPIDI).

 

[danafan]

Men 11-20
Gogolev (SkAm)
Broussard (France)
Shmuratko
Chiu (SCI)
Yoshioka (SkAm)
Starostin
Guarino Sabate
Miyake
Newnham
Samoilov

I did a double take when I saw Newnham's name there because he didn't do any of the ISU events last year that normally fall on the season best list but I saw that his score from Coupe de Printemps 2023 is on the ISU season best list. Is this a mistake or are they counting more events now? http://results.isu.org/isujsstat/sb2022-23/sbtsmto.htm
That's the only competition that's not an ISU championship/challenger/GP/JGP that's showing up on the lists.

 

[Sylvia]

I did a double take when I saw Newnham's name there because he didn't do any of the ISU events last year that normally fall on the season best list but I saw that his score from Coupe de Printemps 2023 is on the ISU season best list. Is this a mistake or are they counting more events now?

Pretty sure it's a mistake. Jimmy Ma is #37 on the ISU SB list for Coupe du Printemps but his ISU SB should be 221.04 from 2023 4CC (doesn't affect his SB placement ranking though).

I'll ask about this again.

 

[Karen-W]

I did a double take when I saw Newnham's name there because he didn't do any of the ISU events last year that normally fall on the season best list but I saw that his score from Coupe de Printemps 2023 is on the ISU season best list. Is this a mistake or are they counting more events now? http://results.isu.org/isujsstat/sb2022-23/sbtsmto.htm
That's the only competition that's not an ISU championship/challenger/GP/JGP that's showing up on the lists.

I believe that @Sylvia asked that question of her contacts when we noticed it after Coupe de Printemps (Jimmy Ma's score from that event is also on the SB list, which didn't move him up the SB list).

 

[Dobre]

My first impression was that G/P could do very well and keep H/B out of the finals - hopefully I’m wrong about H/B not making it. It’s good to see they are coming back, and not surprising they have slightly tougher draws as they don’t have any kind of seeding from Worlds.

Same could happen with Lajoie & Lagha getting in over Fournier-Beaudry & Sorensen. Though less likely as L&L have the away game in G&P's backyard and F-B&S only have the one tough head-to-head instead of two like H&B. Still, we could get some interesting split 2/3 placements for a lot of teams here. Go out, do your thing, bring in the scores, wait & see how things fall. A great program and solid performances could serve a lot of teams very well.

 

[Belsornia]

Smart/Dieck would actually be #1 on the Dance Alternates list - her score with Diaz from 2022 Worlds places them 13th on the SB list, so that's how they slot in for future consideration.

Same situation with Peng/Wang and Hase/Volodin - they'd be #1 & 2 on the Pairs Alternates list

I had a team meeting and my morning break was too short for me to post the full alternates lists in each discipline, but I'll get on that now that I'm on my lunch break.

I knew you'd know all the details! The advantage to being on the same continent as the ISU: the GP assignments were waiting for me when I left work.

 

[Karen-W]

I knew you'd know all the details! The advantage to being on the same continent as the ISU: the GP assignments were waiting for me when I left work.

That's part of what I was working through this morning between calls here at work - updating the Alternates lists and comparing my predictions with the actual assignments (I'm remarkably bad at those predictions, btw, lol).

 

[kwanfan1818]

Cup of China is in November, and the ISU is convening in October to decide if it will allow Russian skaters back in. While the TBDs might be there primarily to dangle a carrot domestically, it is also a way to allow in BFF Russian's skaters in the Top 24 WS (Scherbakova, Valieva, Tarasova/Morozov, Mishina/Galliamov, Sinitsina/Katsalapov) as TBD's. (Not that I'd expect them to all be skating still, but just listing them as eligible without provisions to expand the fields.)

The more important thing would be letting Russian judges and technical people back in, because their tenterhooks run deep, and they have been taking names, along with their Russian Fed handlers.

I hope not, but I wouldn't put it past the ISU to take a stand now before the season begins, but once the season has started, and people are highly invested, I don't think Feds other than Ukraine would pull out if Russia were let in in the Fall.

 

[Karen-W]

Cup of China is in November, and the ISU is convening in October to decide if it will allow Russian skaters back in. While the TBDs might be there primarily to dangle a carrot domestically, it is also a way to allow in BFF Russian's skaters in the Top 24 WS (Scherbakova, Valieva, Tarasova/Morozov, Mishina/Galliamov, Sinitsina/Katsalapov) as TBD's. (Not that I'd expect them to all be skating still, but just listing them as eligible without provisions to expand the fields.)

The more important thing would be letting Russian judges and technical people back in, because their tenterhooks run deep, and they have been taking names, along with their Russian Fed handlers.

I hope not, but I wouldn't put it past the ISU to take a stand now before the season begins, but once the season has started, and people are highly invested, I don't think Feds other than Ukraine would pull out if Russia were let in in the Fall.

I don't think there is much chance of any Russian skaters getting any of those CoC spots. The ISU Council isn't likely to lift the ban until the Valieva CAS hearing is resolved or something drastic happens with the war - given that the CAS hearing for Valieva isn't scheduled until the end of September, the likelihood of the ruling being out before the ISU Council meeting in October is pretty low. China has always held their host spots, even as TBDs, until later in the fall when their skaters have either stepped up to prove they deserve those assignments or not.

 

[airgelaal]

Cup of China is in November, and the ISU is convening in October to decide if it will allow Russian skaters back in. While the TBDs might be there primarily to dangle a carrot domestically, it is also a way to allow in BFF Russian's skaters in the Top 24 WS (Scherbakova, Valieva, Tarasova/Morozov, Mishina/Galliamov, Sinitsina/Katsalapov) as TBD's. (Not that I'd expect them to all be skating still, but just listing them as eligible without provisions to expand the fields.)

The more important thing would be letting Russian judges and technical people back in, because their tenterhooks run deep, and they have been taking names, along with their Russian Fed handlers.

I hope not, but I wouldn't put it past the ISU to take a stand now before the season begins, but once the season has started, and people are highly invested, I don't think Feds other than Ukraine would pull out if Russia were let in in the Fall.

I don't think they stand a chance of passing all the eligibility criteria.

 

[kwanfan1818]

I don't think they stand a chance of passing all the eligibility criteria.

Valieva is the only one without a Top 1-6 placement at Worlds within the last ten years, ie, Comeback Skaters under the 2022-23 definition, and Comeback Skaters don't have to fulfill any minimum scores, plus they are given priority consideration for up to two spots. So exactly what other eligibility criteria are you citing if Russian skaters are allowed back? Skaters get to be added to GP selection as soon as they qualify: they don't need to be declared before the initial selection to get later selections.

Under the Comeback Skater provision, Trusova, Stepanova/Bukin, and more I'll add in as soon as I look at the results for since 2013, would qualify. They just need to be put forward by their Federation and sign a paper with their intention to accept the spots they're given.

ETA: That's assuming the ISU doesn't allow them to use 2021-22 season scores to meet the minimums, in which case, the skaters above would be guaranteed on as Top 24 WS at the beginning of the season.

 

[happycamper2554]

Valieva is the only one without a Top 1-6 placement at Worlds within the last ten years, ie, Comeback Skaters under the 2022-23 definition, and Comeback Skaters don't have to fulfill any minimum scores, plus they are given priority consideration for up to two spots. So exactly what other eligibility criteria are you citing if Russian skaters are allowed back?

They have all publically supported the "Special Operation" . Trusova also represents CSKA. In the sports where Russian has come back no public support of the war or affiliation with the army has been allowed.

 

[Karen-W]

I'm pretty sure that Shcherbakova, Tuktamysheva and Boikova/Kozlovskii could potentially pass the criteria of not having publicly supported the war, I believe (Tukt and BoiKoz would qualify as "Comeback Skater". The rest (including Kolyada) could not.

 

[kwanfan1818]

They have all publically supported the "Special Operation" . Trusova also represents CSKA. In the sports where Russian has come back no public support of the war or affiliation with the army has been allowed.

If Russia is let back in without strings, they'll qualify. CAS will be busy if they make it individual.

 

[Karen-W]

Skaters get to be added to GP selection as soon as they qualify: they don't need to be declared before the initial selection to get later selections.

I don't think this is accurate. Calalang/Johnson certainly didn't get added to the GP Selection list a couple years ago after her doping suspension was lifted at the end of September, so they only were able to compete at SkAm as a host nation selection.

And, even if they did get added later on, they'd probably be listed at the bottom of the Alternates list since none of them have a SB from Worlds 2022 or 2023 - unless they allowed the ones who were at the Olympics to use that score instead.

All of it is kind of moot since, as @airgelaal and @happycamper2554 point out - very few would be able to meet the "no public support of the war" criteria imposed by the IOC.

 

[Karen-W]

If Russia is let back in without strings, they'll qualify. CAS will be busy if they make it individual.

No, they will not. It will, as with all other Olympic sports, be done on an individual, case-by-case basis. CAS hasn't, as far as I am aware, accepted any challenges to the IOC's conditions as laid out in March for "neutral" status granted to any Russian and Belarusian athletes.

 

[Sylvia]

Posted by @Gris in the Chinese news thread on June 13:

Selection method for Cup of China: Skaters whose WS is in Top 50 (Boyang Jin, Wang / Liu) will qualify directly, the rest will be decided based on the results of the 5th Interclub League (Aug. 9-13, in Hulunbuir)

Boyang Jin (France), 'Nini" An (GP debut at Skate America), Peng/Wang (new pair assigned to Finland) and Wang/Liu (Skate Canada) all received 1 initial assignment so most likely they will be assigned to Cup of China as their 2nd GP.

 

[happycamper2554]

I'm pretty sure that Shcherbakova, Tuktamysheva and Boikova/Kozlovskii could potentially pass the criteria of not having publicly supported the war, I believe (Tukt and BoiKoz would qualify as "Comeback Skater". The rest (including Kolyada) could not.

Kolyada was a bronze medalist at 2018? worlds. I believe he is a comeback skater.

 

[kwanfan1818]

It's top six in the last 10 years, so, technically, all of the following who placed up to sixth from 2014-2023 Worlds would qualify, however unlikely: Kovtun, Medvedeva, Lipnitskaya, Pogorilaya, Radionova, Zagitova, Stolbova/Klimov, Ilinyk/Katsalapov, Bobrova/Soloviev, Zabiiiako/Enbert, and Kolyada.

Not from Russia, but Grandpa Bychenko could decide to come back and be guaranteed two GP spots .

 

[Evgeniafan]

I'm crying. Deniss and Kevin at Skate America, last year I wanted to see them so much as I had tickets, one year too late.

 

[Evgeniafan]

I think all 6 competitions look well represented. Skate America and NHK look really good.

 

[ice coverage]

... Not from Russia, but Grandpa Bychenko could decide to come back and be guaranteed two GP spots .

I don't think that "Come Back Skaters" are guaranteed two GP spots?
The language is: "will be given priority consideration to re-enter the Grand Prix for selection of up to 2 assignments."

Gracie Gold was a "Come Back Skater" for GP series in 2018-19 season, and she received only one assignment.
(Gracie did not meet the requirements for "Return Skater.")

 

[airgelaal]

I'm pretty sure that Shcherbakova, Tuktamysheva and Boikova/Kozlovskii could potentially pass the criteria of not having publicly supported the war, I believe (Tukt and BoiKoz would qualify as "Comeback Skater". The rest (including Kolyada) could not.

They all performed in shows sponsored by the state.

 

[Karen-W]

They all performed in shows sponsored by the state.

Well, yes, but Tukt and BoiKoz seemed to have done it just once, under duress, very early on in the war and haven't since. I'm not sure how it would be viewed by TPTB, but they're the only ones who I think could possibly pass muster.