2023 Grand Prix Final - Junior Ice Dance Rhythm Dance

[Wyliefan]

Darya clearly unimpressed with their score.

I don't blame her.

 

[tony]

Ted has got to learn to say something about the x's in the tracker in real time, even if it's just "This was probably entered wrong because (whatever)," or "They lost this element because (whatever)." Or something. We can see the issue, so the commentator needs to address it.

Hard to do when he doesn’t always know the rules. In fact, Hanretty is probably one of the few who actually does for all disciplines, let alone ice dance.

 

[Gris]

From the arena: N/M - Overall the best although I think the score is a tad too high.

T/K - Nice skate and the program has a coherent concept unlike most RDs this season. Don't think they're better than G/S technically though.

G/S - Best flow and the most detailed program, would have them in second.

F/F - There were points where I found them awkward skating in hold. And an oopsie moment.

P/P - As I said in this thread earlier I'd have them ahead of F/F - they were more comfortable in holds and skated closer to each other.

P/C - Well, towards the end of the midline steps, at one moment, I thought Yahli was struggling to keep her balance. Then... Anyway, hoping for a better skate tomorrow.

In terms of ranking I'd have: 1. N/M 2. G/S 3. T/K 4. P/P 5. F/F 6. P/C

 

[PRlady]

Just watched on replay. J think I enjoyed N/M the most of the 12 teams, junior and senior, I watched today. Don’t shoot me. That was real rock-and-roll energy!

Germans should be in second and wuz robbed. I think Jeffrey is just a cursed ice dancer.

 

[Debbie S]

Are the Junior replays hidden somewhere on Peacock or are they only on the ISU channel? I want to see N/M.....looks like I'll need to 'travel'?

 

[skatingguy]

Are the Junior replays hidden somewhere on Peacock or are they only on the ISU channel? I want to see N/M.....looks like I'll need to 'travel'?

I'm not sure about Peacock, but the Junior events should all be available on the ISU YouTube Channel, and they shouldn't be geoblocked.

 

[Desperado]

Hard to do when he doesn’t always know the rules. In fact, Hanretty is probably one of the few who actually does for all disciplines, let alone ice dance.

Then maybe - craziness, I know - but the ISU could pay someone to comment who does know the rules? Unless ignorance is the point.

 

[tony]

Then maybe - craziness, I know - but the ISU could pay someone to comment who does know the rules? Unless ignorance is the point.

Fans can also read the rulebook, though. After the constant whining over commentators saying the same basic things about the scoring system and what the stuff on the tracker means, the fans who actually do care can look into it and study up on it. The resources are there and have been there, in great detail, especially since the inception of IJS. I still have a drive with all the first-edition COP documents that came out in 2003, when I was still in high school

Many events now have a non-commentary option, and I always tend to point out why something is marked invalid or with * in the live PBP threads, but I also read up on the rules as much as I can. But most fans simply don't care enough about the rules as evidenced by their complete ignorance even after watching each and every competition all season long.

 

[Alilou]

Then maybe - craziness, I know - but the ISU could pay someone to comment who does know the rules? Unless ignorance is the point.

Here's craziness - Ted Barton is almost single-handedly responsible for the entire junior circuit being available on youtube, and for commenting on every skater in every event - alone - for years. If it wasn't for him the juniors simply wouldn't be available. He started it! He convinced the ISU they had to make the juniors available via you tube. AFAIK he STILL after years does the entire junior circuit alone.
Finally the past season or so he has been getting help doing both junior and senior, mainly with Mark but there have been others.

How tragic this is for us fans that occasionally Mark needs a break, and occasionally Ted needs a break.

 

[Wyliefan]

Yay for him. I still think he should talk about the x's in the tracker.

 

[tony]

Yay for him. I still think he should talk about the x's in the tracker.

I mean, I don't know about you but for me it was excruciating listening to him previously try to comment on ice dance and his very vague descriptions of the quality of the elements- it's clear he knows about as much about the scoring there as do most FSU posters. But as referenced above, he single-handedly brought JGP events to us, from start to finish, and he sits through all of it each and every year as well. Outside of that, he still has other duties with Skate Canada and his rink. Could he learn all the exact ice dance rules? Maybe. But even then, there are a lot of intricacies that can be missed. There's a reason why the duties for watching the male and female partner are often split on the technical panel in dance.

If he doesn't know the reason for the X, he can't really talk about it in real-time. The access he has to the live scoring and level reviews isn't going to have a pop-up notice explaining the reason for the X.

 

[her grace]

So I watched in the middle of the night, but these were my impressions

Fradji/Fourneaux: Good, competent. Interesting ending performance near the judges.
Pederson/Chen: Did not look like they belonged here. Judges did them no favors holding them up on the series.
Pinchuk/Pogorielov: nice step up in quality, but somewhat nervy skate.
Grimm/Savitskiy: Nice job. Good complex program.
Tkachenko/Kiliakov: Amazing legline, just so well done from the waist through the blades. Program is too generic, the Swiss alternates developed this same idea better.
Neset/Markelov: Fantastic skate with excellent edge quality and powerful movement.

As usual, the pattern dances are a great chance to showcase who can do more than entertain and really separates the teams while the other elements give the teams a chance to show their creativity and individual style. Let's bring back the PD elements to seniors.

 

[Wyliefan]

As a number of people have observed, we've seen an unusual number of data entry errors in the past couple of days. At 5:30 in the morning, half-awake and uncaffeinated and not being, I confess, an all-wise guru of the rule book, I would have appreciated an occasional "I think that might just be another error" to help me distinguish the legit X's from the non-legit X's. If this be treason, make the most of it.

 

[Desperado]

But most fans simply don't care enough about the rules as evidenced by their complete ignorance even after watching each and every competition all season long.

I feel seen.

P.S. there is no other sport that requires fans to read technical manuals to understand unusual details they see on the screen, that’s a commentator’s job.

Here's craziness - Ted Barton is almost single-handedly responsible for the entire junior circuit being available on youtube, and for commenting on every skater in every event - alone - for years. If it wasn't for him the juniors simply wouldn't be available. He started it! He convinced the ISU they had to make the juniors available via you tube. AFAIK he STILL after years does the entire junior circuit alone.
Finally the past season or so he has been getting help doing both junior and senior, mainly with Mark but there have been others.

How tragic this is for us fans that occasionally Mark needs a break, and occasionally Ted needs a break.

Yes, it’s absolutely wonderful that we have access, but we wouldn’t have it if ISU didn’t see a benefit to it too.

It’s not my choice to have Barton work alone, killing himself commenting and have Mark (whom I adore) and him overwork themselves doing both competitions this week. That’s on the ISU. I could enjoy no commentary too, with no expectations.

 

[Karen-W]

So I watched in the middle of the night, but these were my impressions

Pederson/Chen: Did not look like they belonged here. Judges did them no favors holding them up on the series.

They weren't held up at their JGPs. There was a combination of factors that led to them winning two silver medals - Kudryatseva/Karankevich and Hauer/Starr were both originally assigned to Istanbul and WD due to injury. Carhart/Horovyi were originally assigned to Budapest and also WD due to injury. Both of these fields wound up considerably weaker than the rest (well, Bangkok and Yerevan were also pretty thin at the top), but I'd wager that they'd have been bronze medalists at best (Bangkok & Yerevan) and off the podium at the other three (Linz, Osaka & Gdansk). They were, rightly, punished by the judges for their FD falls at both their JGPs - going by total score over both events, they were 8th in the standings and that seems about right, especially with the absence from the entire series of three teams who were expected to contend for the JGPF (KudKar, HauSta, CarHor).

 

[airgelaal]

As a number of people have observed, we've seen an unusual number of data entry errors in the past couple of days. At 5:30 in the morning, half-awake and uncaffeinated and not being, I confess, an all-wise guru of the rule book, I would have appreciated an occasional "I think that might just be another error" to help me distinguish the legit X's from the non-legit X's. If this be treason, make the most of it.

I think that this is unrealistic here, except in obvious situations. The rules are too complex and even specialists cannot always understand the reason for X

 

[mtnskater]

Just watched on replay. J think I enjoyed N/M the most of the 12 teams, junior and senior, I watched today. Don’t shoot me. That was real rock-and-roll energy!

Germans should be in second and wuz robbed. I think Jeffrey is just a cursed ice dancer.

100% agree. Enjoyed Neset & Markelov’s rhythm dance the most of all the teams junior and senior. And those edges are just YUMMY!

I just don’t care for T&K’s overall skating at all, though technically good. Actually I do like his skating but find her to be lacking in posture and refinement. Surprised they were over the Germans. Germans were too.

Agree there is some voodoo hex on Chen and partners that are causing all these falls. I know they are new, but this fall thing is probably really getting into their heads. Too bad. She is only 16 and new to partner ice dance.

 

[tony]

I feel seen.

P.S. there is no other sport that requires fans to read technical manuals to understand unusual details they see on the screen, that’s a commentator’s job.

P.S which other sports give such specific details on the corner of the screen, though? When divers and gymnasts get their scores for example, that’s that and there’s nothing further to analyze for fans.

They could always go back to no score tracker, which I wouldn’t be totally against. It added more excitement waiting for scores.

 

[Desperado]

P.S which other sports give such specific details on the corner of the screen, though? When divers and gymnasts get their scores for example, that’s that and there’s nothing further to analyze for fans.

They could always go back to no score tracker, which I wouldn’t be totally against. It added more excitement waiting for scores.

I really appreciate the box because it makes it easier to understand the score at the end, especially with no commenting. Tennis still has a controversy over its unusual scoring and it’s the easiest thing to understand, especially compared to skating so there’s no given anywhere. Nevermind, it’s not a judged sport and I drank too much port listening to a podcast about the ATP.

 

[Alilou]

Yay for him. I still think he should talk about the x's in the tracker.

Yes, probably, but I wasn't responding to that suggestion.

 

[PRlady]

I was hoping Carhart/Horovyi would break out this season, I liked their expressiveness last year. Is it true they’re changing countries?

At any rate, I will be up at 4:45 (damn you, China) to watch the seniors and will watch the juniors unspoiled later. i suppose N/M are the runaway favorites for Junior World Champ and will go senior next year. As if the traffic jam in US dance wasn't tough enough!

 

[skatfan]

P.S which other sports give such specific details on the corner of the screen, though? When divers and gymnasts get their scores for example, that’s that and there’s nothing further to analyze for fans.

Gymnastics fans would kill to get a tracker but especially the protocol sheets by judge. Right now it’s a black box on how the scores are determined.

 

[Karen-W]

I was hoping Carhart/Horovyi would break out this season, I liked their expressiveness last year. Is it true they’re changing countries?

At any rate, I will be up at 4:45 (damn you, China) to watch the seniors and will watch the juniors unspoiled later. i suppose N/M are the runaway favorites for Junior World Champ and will go senior next year. As if the traffic jam in US dance wasn't tough enough!

Possibly, though they have another year of junior eligibility and while I think they're fabulous, I fully expect them to get buried in that mid-tier range of teams we have on the senior level right now.

Carhart/Horovyi have stated their injury was tougher to recover from than expected but they'll be back next season. They haven't said anything about a country switch, but who knows.

 

[Jammers]

Possibly, though they have another year of junior eligibility and while I think they're fabulous, I fully expect them to get buried in that mid-tier range of teams we have on the senior level right now.

Carhart/Horovyi have stated their injury was tougher to recover from than expected but they'll be back next season. They haven't said anything about a country switch, but who knows.

N/M have no reason to stay another year in Juniors they are i think already comparable to many of the mid tier US Senior teams and maybe could finish in the top 6. I doubt they really want or need another US Junior title after this season.