2024 Egna Dance Trophy, Feb. 8-11, Egna, Italy

[Nmsis]

Are Csiszer/Shapiro making a political statement or did no-one in Villard de Lans / team Hungary listen to the lyrics?

Would youth aspirations to freedom, fairness and love be a theme in Villard ? Mmmmmh

Pretty much so.

Lou Koch/Alexander Buchholdt have a Kate Bush RD. This Woman's Work / Babooshka.
Another Villard's usual theme if one looks into the songs.

 

[Wyliefan]

I wasn't counting how many students Arribert had here, but I do know I saw her colorful coat in the K&C a LOT.

 

[jlai]

Any videos?

 

[Wyliefan]

It's on SolidSport, but check YouTube -- some videos may have started trickling out.

The junior free dance starts tomorrow at 3:30 AM Eastern. Most of the juniors are going to have to dance without me. Hopefully I'll wake up in time for the top 3.

 

[4rkidz]

Clean skate and new SB for Caro and Shane! Good job!

They should be in first in my biased opinion lol, maybe tomorrow

 

[Wyliefan]

I woke up just in time to see Tali/Lafornara go clean -- again! -- and put up a huge score -- again!

Total scores:

1	Noemi Maria TALI / Noah LAFORNARA	ITA	170.39	1	1
2	Celina FRADJI / Jean-Hans FOURNEAUX	FRA	159.98	2	2
3	Jenna HAUER / Benjamin STARR	USA	152.88	3	3
4	Eva BERNARD / Amedeo BONETTO	FRA	151.13	4	4
5	Sofiia BEZNOSIKOVA / Max LELEU	BEL	136.89	6	5
6	Beatrice VENTURA / Stefano FRASCA	ITA	136.59	5	7
7	Eliska ZAKOVA / Filip MENCL	CZE	129.94	9	6
8	Vittoria PETRACCHI / Daniel BASILE	ITA	129.38	7	8
9	Myroslava TKACHENKO / Riccardo PESCA	UKR	126.45	8	10
10	Irmak YUCEL / Danil PAK	TUR	119.92	13	9
11	Lena MALIQUEO-REPOUX / Illia SYNELNIKOV	FRA	112.26	17	11
12	Elisabeth HAVERS / Leo HAVERS	AUT	111.54	15	12
13	Eleonore GABET / Maxime EVEQUOZ	SUI	110.28	16	13
14	Molly HAIRSINE / Alessio SURENKOV-GULTCHEV	GBR	110.00	12	14
15	Martina LAVAZZA / Davide PETTIGIANI	ITA	103.16	14	15
16	Irene BARRERI / Alessandro di GIORGIO	ITA	90.78	18	16
WD	Alexia KRUK / Jan EISENHABER	GER	48.19	10
WD	Natalie BLAASOVA / Filip BLAAS	CZE	48.12	11
WD	Kristina DOBROSERDOVA / Alessandro PELLEGRINI	ARM

Free dance scores:

1​	Noemi Maria TALI / Noah LAFORNARA	ITA	101.01​	54.37​		46.64​	7.75​	7.94​	7.63​	0.00​	#18​
2​	Celina FRADJI / Jean-Hans FOURNEAUX	FRA	95.86​	50.74​		45.12​	7.75​	7.50​	7.31​	0.00​	#17​
3​	Jenna HAUER / Benjamin STARR	USA	91.48​	47.22​		44.26​	7.44​	7.31​	7.38​	0.00​	#16​
4​	Eva BERNARD / Amedeo BONETTO	FRA	90.46​	49.08​		41.38​	6.94​	6.94​	6.81​	0.00​	#15​
5​	Sofiia BEZNOSIKOVA / Max LELEU	BEL	83.41​	44.79​		38.62​	6.50​	6.50​	6.31​	0.00​	#13​
6​	Eliska ZAKOVA / Filip MENCL	CZE	80.15​	43.39​		36.76​	6.19​	6.13​	6.06​	0.00​	#10​
7​	Beatrice VENTURA / Stefano FRASCA	ITA	78.48​	40.96​		38.52​	6.50​	6.38​	6.38​	1.00​	#14​
8​	Vittoria PETRACCHI / Daniel BASILE	ITA	77.82​	41.56​		36.26​	6.19​	6.06​	5.88​	0.00​	#12​
9​	Irmak YUCEL / Danil PAK	TUR	75.75​	42.85​		32.90​	5.63​	5.44​	5.38​	0.00​	#6​
10​	Myroslava TKACHENKO / Riccardo PESCA	UKR	75.25​	39.39​		35.86​	6.06​	6.06​	5.81​	0.00​	#11​
11​	Lena MALIQUEO-REPOUX / Illia SYNELNIKOV	FRA	69.35​	41.23​		28.12​	4.75​	4.75​	4.56​	0.00​	#2​
12​	Elisabeth HAVERS / Leo HAVERS	AUT	67.48​	37.48​		30.00​	5.06​	5.00​	4.94​	0.00​	#4​
13​	Eleonore GABET / Maxime EVEQUOZ	SUI	66.92​	38.42​		28.50​	5.00​	4.56​	4.69​	0.00​	#3​
14​	Molly HAIRSINE / Alessio SURENKOV-GULTCHEV	GBR	62.86​	32.48​		31.38​	5.25​	5.31​	5.13​	1.00​	#7​
15​	Martina LAVAZZA / Davide PETTIGIANI	ITA	59.03​	32.25​		26.78​	4.63​	4.38​	4.38​	0.00​	#5​
16​	Irene BARRERI / Alessandro di GIORGIO	ITA	54.48​	30.34​		24.14​	4.13​	3.94​	4.00​	0.00​	#1​
WD​	Natalie BLAASOVA / Filip BLAAS	CZE	​	​		​	​	​	​	​	#8​
WD​	Alexia KRUK / Jan EISENHABER	GER	​	​		​	​	​	​	​	#9​

 

[Wyliefan]

Seniors are starting.

 

[Wyliefan]

Oof, rough skate for Nalbone/Schiavon, and she wouldn't even look at him afterward. The coach tried to put his arm around her in the K&C, thought better of it, and took it back. Have we got a Skary Babs in training?

 

[Wyliefan]

Caro and Shane were lowballed in the free (I don't know why -- they looked clean to me!), but they've still got a medal. Marie and Thomas are in the lead with a new PB. Bella and Ivan up now.

 

[Wyliefan]

Final scores:

Pl.	Name	Nation	Points	RD	FD
1	Marie DUPAYAGE / Thomas NABAIS	FRA	184.62	3	1
2	Isabella FLORES / Ivan DESYATOV	USA	180.93	1	2
3	Carolane SOUCISSE / Shane FIRUS	IRL	168.15	2	5
4	Leia DOZZI / Pietro PAPETTI	ITA	165.06	5	3
5	Anna SIMOVA / Kirill AKSENOV	SVK	164.69	4	4
6	Carlotta ARGENTIERI / Francesco RIVA	ITA	153.32	6	6
7	Maria Sofia PUCHEROVA / Nikita LYSAK	SVK	150.50	7	7
8	Karla Maria KARL / Kai HOFERICHTER	GER	141.49	9	8
9	Adrienne CARHART / Oleksandr KOLOSOVSKYI	AZE	139.01	8	10
10	Emese CSISZER / Mark SHAPIRO	HUN	138.13	10	9
11	Olivia Josephine SHILLING / Leo BAETEN	BEL	131.34	11	12
12	Natalia PALLU-NEVES / Jayin PANESAR	BRA	128.21	13	11
13	Gaukhar NAURYZOVA / Boyisangur DATIEV	KAZ	128.17	12	13
14	Arianna SASSI / Luca MORINI	SUI	116.93	15	14
15	Philomene SABOURIN / Raul BERMEJO	ESP	112.10	16	15
16	Marta NALBONE / Manuel SCHIAVON	ITA	108.07	14	17
17	Elisabetta INCARDONA / Rafael Marc Drozd MUSIL	DEN	102.22	17	16

Free dance scores:

Pl.	Name	Nation	TSS =	TES +		PCS +	CO	PR	SK	Ded. -	StN.
1​	Marie DUPAYAGE / Thomas NABAIS	FRA	117.23​	67.53​		49.70​	8.55​	8.35​	7.95​	0.00​	#15​
2​	Isabella FLORES / Ivan DESYATOV	USA	109.09​	60.99​		48.10​	8.05​	8.15​	7.85​	0.00​	#17​
3​	Leia DOZZI / Pietro PAPETTI	ITA	101.73​	58.33​		43.40​	7.30​	7.35​	7.05​	0.00​	#13​
4​	Anna SIMOVA / Kirill AKSENOV	SVK	99.86​	56.16​		43.70​	7.35​	7.35​	7.15​	0.00​	#14​
5​	Carolane SOUCISSE / Shane FIRUS	IRL	99.70​	55.40​		44.30​	7.45​	7.35​	7.35​	0.00​	#16​
6​	Carlotta ARGENTIERI / Francesco RIVA	ITA	92.31​	52.01​		40.30​	6.70​	6.85​	6.60​	0.00​	#12​
7​	Maria Sofia PUCHEROVA / Nikita LYSAK	SVK	91.17​	50.77​		40.40​	6.80​	6.75​	6.65​	0.00​	#11​
8​	Karla Maria KARL / Kai HOFERICHTER	GER	88.17​	51.27​		37.90​	6.50​	6.25​	6.20​	1.00​	#9​
9​	Emese CSISZER / Mark SHAPIRO	HUN	85.07​	49.07​		36.00​	6.35​	5.90​	5.75​	0.00​	#8​
10​	Adrienne CARHART / Oleksandr KOLOSOVSKYI	AZE	84.64​	47.24​		37.40​	6.25​	6.20​	6.25​	0.00​	#10​
11​	Natalia PALLU-NEVES / Jayin PANESAR	BRA	79.35​	46.15​		33.20​	5.60​	5.60​	5.40​	0.00​	#5​
12​	Olivia Josephine SHILLING / Leo BAETEN	BEL	79.15​	44.65​		34.50​	5.90​	5.65​	5.70​	0.00​	#7​
13​	Gaukhar NAURYZOVA / Boyisangur DATIEV	KAZ	78.51​	45.21​		33.30​	5.65​	5.50​	5.50​	0.00​	#6​
14​	Arianna SASSI / Luca MORINI	SUI	71.41​	41.01​		31.40​	5.40​	5.15​	5.15​	1.00​	#3​
15​	Philomene SABOURIN / Raul BERMEJO	ESP	67.55​	36.35​		31.20​	5.35​	5.20​	5.05​	0.00​	#2​
16​	Elisabetta INCARDONA / Rafael Marc Drozd MUSIL	DEN	62.67​	37.07​		26.60​	4.45​	4.45​	4.40​	1.00​	#1​
17​	Marta NALBONE / Manuel SCHIAVON	ITA	61.86​	33.96​		28.90​	5.05​	4.65​	4.75​	1.00​	#4​

 

[Wyliefan]

Protocols are up. S/F and F/D both got a ! on their choreo step and lost some levels here and there.

https://www.fisg.it/upload/result/6238/online/FSKXICEDANCE----------FNL-000100--_JudgesDetailsperSkater.pdf

 

[AYS]

The ! on the ChSt and one L3 lift might've lost F/D the gold (or it would have been a razor thin loss), but still a very nice showing for them.

That's a monster leap in PB for D/N! Seems like mainly driven by their GOEs.

 

[Wyliefan]

Well, I have to say I love this podium. Three of my favorite teams. And congratulations to Ireland on its first ice dance medal!

Someone likes Karine Arribert -- random shot of her sitting alone in the K&C as the medalists are starting their victory lap!

 

[AYS]

F/D scored higher PCS here than with their fabulous Nationals skate (how often do you see that). I think the international judges appreciate them.

 

[Wyliefan]

Here's an interesting factoid: Seven out of the 17 teams got that ! on the choreo step! I kept seeing it pop up as I glanced over the protocols, so I started counting out of curiosity.

 

[AYS]

Here's an interesting factoid: Seven out of the 17 teams got that ! on the choreo step! I kept seeing it pop up as I glanced over the protocols, so I started counting out of curiosity.

Sounds like that caller should get a !

 

[PRlady]

What does it mean?

 

[tony]

What does it mean?

Choreographic Character Step Sequence
Both partners perform steps around the short chosen axis and must proceed from barrier to barrier...
! Applied when:
-both of the partners more than 2 meters from one of the barriers...
-a retrogression is performed…
-pattern is repeated as exactly the same as the Step Sequence, even if the ChSt is skated first

 

[thvu]

Now I need video so I can nerd out / scrutinize the ! calls.

 

[Wyliefan]

@thvu There's not a lot available outside SolidSport, but this account has the top two free dances. I honestly do not see the problem in Flor/Des's sequence; maybe you can spot it.

https://www.youtube.com/@Justafigureskatingfan

 

[Belsornia]

That's a monster leap in PB for D/N! Seems like mainly driven by their GOEs.

It's similar to their score at Bosphorus Cup and overall this event seems to have been a much harsher panel. I'm sad that France only has two spots at Worlds this year so we won't see these programmes again.

Would youth aspirations to freedom, fairness and love be a theme in Villard ? Mmmmmh

Yes, there are themes of freedom, fairness and love, and then there's a Franco-Hungarian team skating to lyrics which are explicitly a criticism of the UK government of the 1980s. But maybe I'm maligning them and Emese Csiszer has strong views about the disolution of the GLC.

Lou Koch/Alexander Buchholdt have a Kate Bush RD. This Woman's Work / Babooshka.
Another Villard's usual theme if one looks into the songs.

I saw Koch/Buchholdt at the British Championships and their programmes were disappointing. Kate Bush + Villard de Lans + Lou Koch who was so great with her previous partner - yet zero voids.

Do you know if Koch/Buchholdt's recent withdrawals are due to injury or a split?

 

[thvu]

@thvu There's not a lot available outside SolidSport, but this account has the top two free dances. I honestly do not see the problem in Flor/Des's sequence; maybe you can spot it.

https://www.youtube.com/@Justafigureskatingfan

I see two possibilities, one is a lack of clarity in the rules and the other could just be a very harsh implementation of the 2 arms length rule.

Lack of clarity option
This would depend on when the choreographic character step truly starts. I haven't read anything that answers this. The most we have when it meets the "minimum requirements" of "barrier to barrier". The lack of clarity comes in on when ! applies. It basically tells us that couples can be within 2 meters of each barrier to still meet the requirements to be called without a ! call. When Flor/Des start their choreo step, the are on the short axis, approach the barrier, touch it, and then it seems like their element begins. But, could this panel (or a REALLY strong voice on it) have seen the element as starting earlier, at the 2 meters point? If so, they could have been seen as having a retrogression in the element, which would be a ! call.

So, for the Choreographic Character Step, I think they need to clarify when the element begins. Meeting minimum requirements is fine for the other choreographic elements, but the new definition of the element and the introduction of ! call conditions has created this gray area. If this was the reason, we may see a clarification in an upcoming Q&A (and not the first time Isabella would have caused a clarification to happen.)

Strict Enforcement
It may just be a strict enforcement of partners having to stay within two arms length apart. There are parts of Flor/Des's element that appears to me just at the cusp of two arms length. If this panel was really strict, I could see them applying this call to many teams. Panels have been really lenient on not calling ! when couples are more than 2 arms lengths apart so far this season.

We've seen a few strict calls this season that come as a surprise. While it tends to happen every season, that it happened to so many couples at Egna is a bit out of the ordinary. Probably better for the hammer to come down at a small international to give a warning than to come as a surprise at Worlds.

 

[Wyliefan]

There are parts of Flor/Des's element that appears to me just at the cusp of two arms length. If this panel was really strict, I could see them applying this call to many teams.

Since seven teams here got this call, I'll bet that was it.

 

[Nmsis]

Yes, there are themes of freedom, fairness and love, and then there's a Franco-Hungarian team skating to lyrics which are explicitly a criticism of the UK government of the 1980s.

If the Communards are a picture of the UK of the 80s, their themes speak beyond their location. The recession of the early 80s and its ills were a well-spread phenomenon.
Arribert often choses themes out of real dire social situations and bends them toward hope.
Last season, Louise Bordet and Thomas Gipoulou were skating their RD on a song about a real story of hundreds of women being murdered and disappearing over the years at Ciudad Juarez. The theme was the lack of concern of about femicide, not the situation in Mexico.
Then the RD went to a song with a woman joyfully leaving / dancing away from her neglectful boyfriend/husband, despite his late regrets.
In ballet, Arribert would probably make a free program out of those themes, like she did mixing several Serge Gainsbourg's songs to talk about domestic violence and how women may rise above and save themselves.
But this is ice dance, so nowadays she keeps those themes low-key in RDs where rythm is the main point.
(she also has a monsters & magic FD theme that she sometimes uses in RDs)

I saw Koch/Buchholdt at the British Championships and their programmes were disappointing. Kate Bush + Villard de Lans + Lou Koch who was so great with her previous partner - yet zero voids.

They partnered quite late in the season IIRC. Koch / Melnyk were already skating together at the end of the previous season when they appeared at the JGP (same for Bernard/Bonetto). Voids grow with time.

Do you know if Koch/Buchholdt's recent withdrawals are due to injury or a split?

No news yet.
For now, Lou Koch has not suddenly reappeared in solo ice dance competitions like the last time.

 

[AYS]

I see two possibilities, one is a lack of clarity in the rules and the other could just be a very harsh implementation of the 2 arms length rule.
Lack of clarity option
This would depend on when the choreographic character step truly starts. I haven't read anything that answers this. The most we have when it meets the "minimum requirements" of "barrier to barrier". The lack of clarity comes in on when ! applies. It basically tells us that couples can be within 2 meters of each barrier to still meet the requirements to be called without a ! call. When Flor/Des start their choreo step, the are on the short axis, approach the barrier, touch it, and then it seems like their element begins. But, could this panel (or a REALLY strong voice on it) have seen the element as starting earlier, at the 2 meters point? If so, they could have been seen as having a retrogression in the element, which would be a ! call.

So, for the Choreographic Character Step, I think they need to clarify when the element begins. Meeting minimum requirements is fine for the other choreographic elements, but the new definition of the element and the introduction of ! call conditions has created this gray area. If this was the reason, we may see a clarification in an upcoming Q&A (and not the first time Isabella would have caused a clarification to happen.)

Strict Enforcement
It may just be a strict enforcement of partners having to stay within two arms length apart. There are parts of Flor/Des's element that appears to me just at the cusp of two arms length. If this panel was really strict, I could see them applying this call to many teams. Panels have been really lenient on not calling ! when couples are more than 2 arms lengths apart so far this season.

Given the criteria @tony posted (which are from https://www.isu.org/figure-skating/...rm-choreographic-elements-season-2023-24/file ) I don't see a 2 arms length rule for the ChSt sequence. For a !, t's 2 meters from each barrier for both partners, no retrogression, and no duplication of any of the step seq.

What I do possibly see (thanks @Wyliefan for the link to the program) is your first lack of clarity point - if the caller felt that the sequence actually started going before they skated to the first barrier, then that could be called a retrogression, I guess, because they approach the barrier and then go back to the other barrier. I could see someone judging they did start it before the barrier, given how they were expressing it; it was continuous expression of that theme from before they approached the first barrier til they got to the second barrier.

That being said, I feel like to avoid this kind of lack of clarity, they should define the ChSt as starting when the couple are 2 meters from the first barrier and ending when they get to 2 meters from the other barrier. Although that would negate the need for a retrogression criterion, I guess.

If this is what it was, it seems like this caller was interpreting the beginning and ending of the ChSt sequences differently from other callers during the season, since F/D and I guess most of these couples have probably been doing it the same all season and not getting that call. I could see this happening at the beginning of the season, but not in one of the last event. Hopefully teams going to worlds will double check this!

 

[thvu]

@AYS its on Page 22 of the following doc:

https://www.isu.org/figure-skating/rules/id-handbooks-faq/related-communications-1/31742-isu-communication-2569-1/file

The 2 arms length apart ! criteria was added in the September update. Regardless, I think you’re right that all the teams need to double check their elements! Because a ! call is devastating in ice dance.

 

[Belsornia]

No news yet.
For now, Lou Koch has not suddenly reappeared in solo ice dance competitions like the last time.

Fingers crossed. She's a much stronger skater than him at the moment but he's also improved a lot since last season, so hopefully if they stick together they will become a more well-balanced team with time.

 

[Frau Muller]

Will there be an Egna Spring Trophy (for singles) this year? It used to be this time of the year…late April into May.

 

[Karen-W]

Will there be an Egna Spring Trophy (for singles) this year? It used to be this time of the year…late April into May.

No. There are only 3 internationals for elite skaters left this season.

Calendar of Events - International Skating Union

The International Skating Union is the international sport federation administering Ice Skating sports throughout the world.

isu.org

Thailand Open FS Trophy - May 3-6 - Bangkok THA
Mexico Cup - May 14-19 - Queretaro MEX
Oceania International - May 29-31 - Melbourne AUS

 

[Frau Muller]

No. There are only 3 internationals for elite skaters left this season.

Calendar of Events - International Skating Union

The International Skating Union is the international sport federation administering Ice Skating sports throughout the world.

isu.org

Thailand Open FS Trophy - May 3-6 - Bangkok THA
Mexico Cup - May 14-19 - Queretaro MEX
Oceania International - May 29-31 - Melbourne AUS

I know about those far away from the traditional sites in Euro, N Am. I just remember when Egna singles was an event for Jrs…Kirk Haugeto, for ex.