Bruno Massot called Savchenko “A tyrant” and said he has PTSD after working with her.

[chameleonster]

Aljona was Alexa's idol, but five months after they announced that she'd be their coach they announced their split. That's crazy.

Also we may never know the full story but sometimes a little can convey a lot.

 

[tony]

Aljona was Alexa's idol, but five months after they announced that she'd be their coach they announced their split. That's crazy.

Also we may never know the full story but sometimes a little can convey a lot.

It can convey a lot, but a lot can also get twisted in the vagueness.

In his last few seasons (post-2018) Chris didn't seem to be motivated by the sport anymore and had struggles that are now known. If the two moved to Savchenko hoping for a miracle and were greeted with a completely different training regimen and expectations that were much higher than before, that's what the 'lol' could've been about for all we know.

So in this instance, I don't think we can add any evidence supporting a case against Savchenko unless Alexa or Chris actually speaks up-- which as far as I know, they have not.

 

[canbelto]

BTW. Robin and Ingo are working together in Chemnitz. Robin say they only talk about sports - no word about private stuff. It seems to work. Kind of astonishing after all the years.

It's not unusual. Figure skating is a small world, and the limited German figure skating world even smaller. I'm sure they can be colleagues now that there's no longer a really toxic triangle at play.

 

[MacMadame]

BTW. Robin and Ingo are working together in Chemnitz. Robin say they only talk about sports - no word about private stuff. It seems to work. Kind of astonishing after all the years.

I don't think it is. People think that abusers are horrible people that no one would want to be around but it's more complex than that. (And even serial killers are often known to be charming.)

It is possible to have a healthy relationship with your abuser if you set certain boundaries especially because abusers don't abuse everyone in their orbit.

ETA that @canbelto and I were posting at the same time!

 

[PRlady]

My feeling right now is that I hope Aljona is happy sleeping with her OGM. Personal relationships don’t seem to be her forte.

 

[kwanfan1818]

I'm not sure training 3 weeks out of a quarter in the same rink even with the same coach is enough to really know what it would be like to train with someone full-time. I'm sure he had some idea but sometimes you can't know until you are in the situation and sometimes people ignore red flags.

I agree. However, it was just enough time to think he might have known better than going in knowing her casually from competitions and through mutual figure skating people. It's unlikely that Savchenko was perfectly angelic for all three weeks every three months, ie, not on four-day-seminar best(ish) behavior, but it might have seemed workable for him, especially, when people go outside their own training environment all motivated and optimistic.

From the other side, it's likely Popova/Massot came in revved to work and learn during those weeks outside of their day-to-day, and Savchenko might have misjudged what he would be like in training full-time based on P/M's time in Chemnitz, or at least thought that there was potential to mold him into the partner she wanted.

 

[LeafOnTheWind]

I would just like to say the interactions of abuse are complicated when it comes to men and women who are supposedly on equal footing. A family member of mine was toxic and abusive to her husband for around a decade. He was a nice man. And I stress was a nice man. When he snapped, he snapped badly. He did a lot of wrong to her but I can't ignore the fact that she turned him ugly after humiliating him at every step. It would have been better for him to just divorce her but I do kind of understand just losing all control after taking shit for so long. He needed the same professional care and help that abused women need after finally turning on their husbands.

Another brother-in-law of mine took a lot of abuse from his ex-wife. She physically attacked him once and he had to defend himself. She called the cops claiming abuse. She was clueless that women can abuse men that she didn't realize her own statement was getting her arrested. His injuries all indicated a defensive stance. When he finally pushed her away it was survival not abuse.

These kind of situations are hard to tell from a distance and I don't know enough about Bruno and Aliona. But I do want to point out that sometimes men do need to protect themselves and shouldn't just have to take abuse. It is more common for men to be violent against women and there need to be greater protections in place. This still doesn't excuse us ignoring the opposite scenario.

 

[overedge]

Aljona was Alexa's idol, but five months after they announced that she'd be their coach they announced their split. That's crazy.

Not really. The coach-student relationship is very different from the peer relationship between skaters in the same discipline. Also, some skaters who are fantastic performers and competitors are terrible coaches, because they expect their students to train and compete the same way they did. And that style might not work for everyone.

 

[Miezekatze]

BTW. Robin and Ingo are working together in Chemnitz. Robin says they only talk about sports - no word about private stuff. It seems to work. Kind of astonishing after all the years.

I saw some tv interview with Robin about it and he also said they mostly split up the days, with one taking care of the mornings and the other the evenings.
I'd also guess Ingo has mellowed out a bit. He had such terrible blow of fates and serious health problems. Plus I think Robin probably gets along with every single person in the whole world. The only person I ever heard him speaking of a bit critically is Jutta Müller, who refused to greet him back when he greeted her.

 

[DreamSkates]

Sadly, it looks to me that TSL actually stole it from this tweet: https://twitter.com/twistandtwizzle/status/1628204941952094209 going by the timestamps. And this tweet didn't source it. And it very much does look like the OP on that GS thread posted a machine translation originally, which is where the screencaps seem to come from. Of course, TSL signal boosted it much more with their platform.

That being said...

Well, he didn't exactly complain during the time. He is allowed to now. If you remember, he also had many issues with the French fed.

TSL....well they seem to often be looking for more drama to pass around .

 

[skatingguy]

TSL....well they seem to often be looking for more drama to pass around .

I don't know how to respond to this - do you believe that these quotes should have been ignored?

 

[canbelto]

It's kind of depressing the way ppl bend themselves into pretzels to defend their favorite skaters

 

[Vagabond]

It's kind of depressing the way ppl bend themselves into pretzels to defend their favorite skaters

It's no different from how people act in order to defend friends, family members, clergy, coaches, teachers, politicians, other athletes, etc.

Abuse of one form or another is rampant and always has been. So too is condemning those who say anything about it.

And, unfortunately, many of those who criticize those who speak up are often people that you might expect to be sympathetic instead of critical.

 

[ballettmaus]

I have mixed feelings about this. I've had ballet instructors who were from the former Soviet Union and I guess, they don't always use the most flattering words - to put it nicely. They never insulted any of us personally but they did push us verbally and physically. I wouldn't say they were abusive but if Savchenko had that same mentality, then I can easily see how it can either be perceived as abusive or can become abusive. And even if another partner wouldn't have felt that it was abusive, we're all different and if Massot felt it was an abusive relationship then it was an abusive relationship (for him) and it wasn't healthy.

(Interestingly, though, as Massot was originally from France, it were my French instructors in France that did a number on my confidence. I wouldn't call them abusive either but if you did not dance the way they thought you needed to dance, they made you feel as if you didn't know how to dance and that your way of dancing was wrong).

 

[airgelaal]

Their goal was an Olympic medal. Their opponents were very strong. And they had only 4 years before the Olympics. From the very beginning it was obvious that much more work would have to be done. Aljona was ready to work 24/7, but Bruno was probably not ready. I think both were right in what they feel. But since they are a pair, compromises had to be made. And it seems that Aljona was not ready for them.

 

[kirkbiggestfan]

If I had to rewrite history, I would have paired Vanessa James with Bruno and Aliona with Cipres . Stars did not align for a James-Massot partnership.

 

[Marco]

If his choices were:

1) to have a perfect time training with your partner and stay middle of the pack at Europeans

2) to have a tough time training with your partner and be OGM and World Champ

I wonder how he would pick now after the fact. He obviously picked to pursue the latter when he teamed up with Savchenko but perhaps he didn't know things would be soooo tough...

 

[just tuned in]

At the time of the medal, he praised her to the heavens and hailed her as a queen. He appeared to be so grateful then. I wonder what happened in the several years since that make him so bitter. The posters here who are equating her "abusive" behavior with the sexual harassment that women in sports sometimes experience: please stop doing that.

 

[Vagabond]

At the time of the medal, he praised her to the heavens and hailed her as a queen. He appeared to be so grateful then. I wonder what happened in the several years since that make him so bitter. ho are equating her "abusive" behavior with the sexual harassment that women in sports sometimes experience: please stop doing that.

He got out of the abusive relationship and spent a few years thinking and processing his feelings about his experiences. This is very common among those who have been abused.

 

[canbelto]

At the time of the medal, he praised her to the heavens and hailed her as a queen. He appeared to be so grateful then. I wonder what happened in the several years since that make him so bitter. The posters here who are equating her "abusive" behavior with the sexual harassment that women in sports sometimes experience: please stop doing that.

They tried to restart their partnership but it ended quickly … and badly. My guess is that she was still the same to him, treating him as less than, even after the OGM and he realized she’d never change.

And it’s clear she never thought of any of her partners as actual partners. It was always about her dreams. And I wish ppl would stop making snide comments whenever men say they are abused. This is exactly why Catholic priests were able to do what they did for so long.

 

[MacMadame]

If his choices were:

1) to have a perfect time training with your partner and stay middle of the pack at Europeans

2) to have a tough time training with your partner and be OGM and World Champ

I wonder how he would pick now after the fact. He obviously picked to pursue the latter when he teamed up with Savchenko but perhaps he didn't know things would be soooo tough...

He already said the OGM wasn't worth it in that article.

 

[Marco]

My GUESS of what probably transpired -

1. He fought hard to get to partner with her to make a run for the Olympic and World titles, fully knowing that he wouldn't have had a closer shot with anyone else.
2. She turned out to be tougher than he expected, possibly involving some verbal / physical abuse, and obviously a ton of pressure from her. "You doubled (salchow)"?
3. They ultimately won the big prizes.
4. All that glory and money and shows.
5. CoViD. No more glory and money and shows.
6. He had physically and mentally moved on from competitions, and was set for coaching.
7. She approached and discussed making another run for Beijing.
8. The discussions / try-outs(?!) did not go well.
9. He didn't want to continue and they ended the discussions unambicably. He felt used. She went desparately asking everyone else on the planet.
10. He reflects on the past 9 years and only remembers the bitter moments with her.

I am so sorry he felt abused and traumatized. It is good that he is speaking up and out about it whether or not it was intentional on her part. If anything though, I hope he learns from his experience and will be even more caring towards his own students.

 

[Marco]

He already said the OGM wasn't worth it in that article.

That's a shame.

 

[canbelto]

Looking back, the sheer terror in his face when she asked him "Did you double?"

ð©ðª Aljona Savchenko & Bruno Massot - Full Short Program! â¸

Aljona Savchenko & Bruno Massot's amazing short program at PyeongChang 2018 in full length. Enjoy watching!__________________________________________________...

www.youtube.com

 

[Alilou]

Looking back, the sheer terror in his face when she asked him "Did you double?"

ð©ðª Aljona Savchenko & Bruno Massot - Full Short Program! â¸

Aljona Savchenko & Bruno Massot's amazing short program at PyeongChang 2018 in full length. Enjoy watching!__________________________________________________...

www.youtube.com

Sheer terror? Seriously? He winced a bit.

 

[canbelto]

Sheer terror? Seriously? He winced a bit.

Didn't you see how tearful and upset he was?
As I said, a lot of this is bias. He's a big burly guy, she;s a tiny woman. People just think it's funny he's scared of her.

 

[Alilou]

Didn't you see how tearful and upset he was?
As I said, a lot of this is bias. He's a big burly guy, she;s a tiny woman. People just think it's funny he's scared of her.

Tearful and upset on the ice when she asked him? Or in the K&C? Anyway I didn't see any tears. What I saw was the same as any skater who knew that doubling a planned triple was going to be costly. Same as hundreds we've seen in the K&C who are disappointed with how they performed. There was nothing excessive in Bruno's reaction. He was understandably disappointed. He wasn't having a breakdown, nor did he appear terrified. GMAB

 

[tony]

Tearful and upset on the ice when she asked him? Or in the K&C? Anyway I didn't see any tears. What I saw was the same as any skater who knew that doubling a planned triple was going to be costly. Same as hundreds we've seen in the K&C who are disappointed with how they performed. There was nothing excessive in Bruno's reaction. He was understandably disappointed. He wasn't having a breakdown, nor did he appear terrified. GMAB

Yeah, it's a stretch. It's the Olympic Games. Of course he's going to be upset because he thought he had just thrown away a chance at the gold. Unless everyone is supposed to plaster on a big fake smile because they are just so happy to be there.

 

[MacMadame]

I really don't see how we can judge anything by these clips. We don't know what went on in the KnC when the cameras weren't on them. We don't now them well enough to really know what is the norm for them. And they are well aware that they are in public so it's not like they are going to let their hair down.

 

[On My Own]

I don't know how to respond to this - do you believe that these quotes should have been ignored?

Quotes shouldn't be ignored.

Most of us don't have the original article that we can read, nor do all of us read French. It looks like we're all going by machine translation.

It is irresponsible to spread an article like that, and a paid one at that.

That being said, the entire thing is back on the GS thread: https://www.goldenskate.com/forum/t...e-stories-of-couples-in-figure-skating.95019/