Cup of China 2023 Free Dance - “Part-time Lifts Just Bring Me Down”

[Andrey aka Pushkin]

Ok. So.

LaLa are amazing, I loved them ever since I saw them the first time being a couple of parrots, and they are still absolutely fabulous. They are very reminiscent of Virtue/Moir, and I'd have them first.

Gilles/Poirier have the most wonderful program in years. I really appreciate them, and they have been the most interesting couple for years (until the last 3 seasons). But they are just not such amazing skaters You can clearly see that between the (great) elements when they just do these heavy choppy crossovers. Not the same speed as others either. I think this should be their last season, unless they want to be overtaken by LaLa next year.

I love Caroline Green and couldn't have cared less for Parsons. But this program was lovely and original. They are probably my second most favorite US team, but I don't see the brilliance I see in...

Of course, Demougeot/Le Mercier. OMG, I'm absolutely in love with Theo, which is not news to anyone, but common! Their knees are so soft, the edges are so strong, they are the only team that doesn't jump when changing edges, it's just such a pure clean skating I really hope the judges recognize the obvious brilliance I am seeing, because it would be a shame if they don't get the recognition they deserve. The program itself is objectively not as good as the top 3, but I can forgive that. Well, yeah, I can forgive Theo anything, really

 

[tony]

Catching up on everything. G/P just don't do it for me in the FD. The music is nice and original, it builds and has a mysterious quality, but the skating is just not matching like they've been able to do in the past. I also thought it was a very nervy skate for both of them and the GOEs were beyond generous almost all the way through. Preferred Lajoie and Lagha besides it looking like she was holding on for her life in the first twizzle. I just think they have more complexity and more matched levels of proficiency.

Other highlight was Demougeot and Le Mercier. That program is choreographed so brilliantly to the phrasing of the music and it builds so well. Phantom on Ice Chinese team was nice. I thought the program was cute.

ETA- totally forgot to comment on K/R. They need something weird and loud and in your face. Schindlers was so flat and open and just skating from element to element that could've been in any order.

 

[~tapdancer~]

COC FD
I always feel for skaters competing in China. Because of the travel. It has to be exhausting.
my thoughts...

Shi/Wu CHN...I liked them, even the low ranked ice dance teams make me want to watch. Ice dance is such a beautiful discipline. I think this team have been watching Haw/Baker vids, curve lift and slide move straight out of their choreo.

Chen/Xing CHN...I really enjoyed this version of Phantom, Mark said it was from Phantom on Ice so I hadn't heard that music before but was lovely. I thought they were nicely dramatic, loved the difficult curve lift. Costumes were also very nice.

D/M France...love Claire de Lune and the change in music was great. Nice twizzles, love their speed and quickness in lifts, really liked the rotational lift.

K/R Georgia...didn't take any notes on this. They do have passion but the dance wasn't that memorable for me.

B/S USA...She has improved a lot, even a level higher than him on step sequence. Good twizzles. Nice curve lift, got L4 but I noticed the GOE was pretty low. With the depth of US ice dance, they aren't really in the mix yet for the podium.

P/B USA...ok, no question I really love this team, always have. I really like this FD, it is audience friendly and they skate with very good speed. Love Logan's choreo jumps. Twizzles were very nice and the curve lift was gorgeous. And solid. I especially love the opening to the FD and then how it becomes so intense. Great job!

G/P USA...this team doesn't usually do much for me, I am slowly enjoying them more but this FD ain't it. The music is so boring and there was very little audience connection to it. Little better in the last minute or so. She has improved for me, I really didn't care for her performances when they first started together.

G/P CAN...this is another team I have adored for years. This performance wasn't as intense as Skate Canada but it was still amazing. This music is fabulous, love the choreo throughout, and especially the ending. Have always loved their hydro move and it fits very well in this program. I think this program will just get better and better, I hope!

L/L Can...oh my, what can I say. This team is flat out amazing. I love my US teams but L/L just thrill me and always have. I really like Gilles/Poirer but I wouldn't be disappointed at all to see L/L rise to the top. This FD is beyond lovely, the costumes are perfect and their passion is wonderful, not over the top at all. They are a great team. I believe they will be in the mix for gold at Olympics for sure.

 

[~tapdancer~]

Apparently the feedback from the judges is that the the judges love it, and are encouraging the skaters to do it.

I agree with judges. Skating up to the boards with their passionate faces is awesome.

 

[PRlady]

Well. Watched most of this on replay.

I would have given the FD to LaLa, such distinct, beautiful movement. This wasn’t G/P’s best outing and I still think Piper is showing effects of her illness. Love their FD and hope they can skate it perfectly on Montreal.

GrePar have a lot to worry about finishing 17 points behind LaLa who are supposedly Canada’s #3 team. The FD is nice but not nearly as interesting or dramatic as ZingKol or CarPom.

I love Debussy even more than I love the Scorpions and the choreo is lovely but I see little bobbles from her. Wondering why so many teams these days seem to have stronger male partners. Shoutout to Christina C, Caroline G and Hannah Lim for exceptions to that trend.

 

[thvu]

Demougeot & le Mercer should have been 3rd in the Free Dance. They definitely got hosed for being in the first group and a lack of politics behind them. Just an absolutely gorgeous Free Dance. I loved the combination lift and the step sequence. The choreographic elements do need a bit of work in terms of being more "wow". Also, the way the one-foot steps are supposed to be integrated into the overall program - love the idea, but the purposefully small pattern hurts them in terms of GOE.

Kazakova & Reviya are just a snooze when they don't have spooky packaging. And then the choreo steps are just wtf with music changes that aren't earned and come out of nowhere. This program is such an obvious hack job.

Bratti & Somerville just have no chemistry. Ne me quitte pas is just such a terrible choice for them. They are not introverted or introspective performers. Also, Ian keeps randomly smiling? Overall, just a terrible package for them (which is normal for their coaching team). They're also another dance team where the fluidity vs stiffness of the two is so distracting. It's such a shame because Ian is a star. He understands how to dance and perform with his whole body. (Does anyone know what Avonly is doing? )

Sigh Pate & Bye. There's just something so High School Showcase about them. They have alot of potential, but the impression I get from this Free Dance is that they're a low priority in their camp. It's just so "good enough", with tons of choreography that just seems thrown away - so much arm throwing, random leg kicks, and then elements that seem clearly designed before the program was decided. The one foot steps are great - an example Demougeot & Le Mercier's camp needs to take note of - design the element to be a highlight instead of hidden. Sigh, the choreo assisted jumps and the choreo steps are just so generic and low effort. I really hope they're not paying extra for this. Still, I thought they skated the best of the American teams here, even if the program is from Igor's leftover bin.

Green & Parson's program . I feel like this is the style program given to them to hide Michael's lack of performance quality. Caroline just absolutely outshines him now. She's matured so much while he has stagnated. The twizzles were sluggish, and aside from their stationary lift, the lifts looked laborious. Overall the speed isn't there. It's not like they're losing speed, it just wasn't there to start. I appreciate that they're trying to give us interesting transitions and the occasionally interesting change of hold, but it's not enough. Though, even if I think this program is a snooze, it's still better content than anything Igor and his teams have put out in years.

Gilles & Poirier look alot rougher than at Skate Canada (and even then they looked like they got a late start). I still love this program - it's the best program from all the top teams by far IMO, but that's not going to matter as long as they keep skating this sloppily. Those twizzles were a mess (for which they're getting ridiculous GOE). When they're this sloppy, it's clear to me that overall finesse isn't worked on as much as it needs to be. That's something Montreal excels at - fine tuning the small details to create a good overall impression, even if the work is simpler and more generic. Piper & Paul need more of that refinement work. Creativity isn't going to be enough to get them the gold at worlds.

Okay, so Lajoie & Laugh are growing on me. I still not into them as performers, but wow is their skating good. It's just so good that I can't help but appreciate it. The speed right now is unmatched, and their unison and smoothness of the transitions is just getting better and better. These one foot steps are great, just so smooth, and then a great transition into the choreo spin. Their power is also looking easier and easier. The diagonal step sequence is just so smooth. There's no other team in the current field capable of skating a DiSt that well - you have to go back to Papadakis and Cizeron to find something better. I still don't like this program, but the skating was just so strong. I would have put them 1st in the Free Dance. I don't understand how they lost TES other than rep judging. There's absolutely no reason they shouldn't be at least Canadian #2 this season, and then #1 next.

My Ranking:
Lajoie & Lagha
Gilles & Poirier
Demougeot & le Mercier
Pate & Bye
Green & Parsons
Bratti & Somerville
Kazakova & Reviya

 

[Gris]

Some impressions from the arena (both RD and FD):

Gilles / Poirier: Sorry if I sound too negative, but I liked their FD a lot 2 weeks ago and I came here, prepared to be wowed - and I wasn't wowed at all. And the RD is even worse to the point that I wouldn't mind if they were 3rd in that segment - I thought they had neither L/L's attack or Gr/Pa's smoothness, plus Piper's twizzle mistake. They were saved here by the PCS. I did enjoy the vibe of the first part of their RD though because it's different to most 80s RDs this season.

Lajoie / Lagha: I 100% believe they should have won. Best speed, best power, best fluidity. Previously I was unsure about their RD, especially the music cuts, but when they started skating it was so powerful that I just forgot the music cut thing. The FD also builds very nicely as a whole and they skated with ease, despite being tinkly piano music etc.

Green / Parsons: The Scorpions RD is getting better. Report on Weibo said that Caroline fell during a lift at Saturday morning practice so I was a bit worried but they did well in the FD. Didn't like the new music for the last 1/3 of their FD though - sounds like a higher key screeching version of the old one, but I think the new combo lift is better than the previous one.

Pate / Bye: I was surprised by how much I liked the first part of their RD, I felt it went by very quickly. Then the stand still "dance" started and they lost me. The FD felt very... dated and the one-foot steps covered little ice.

Demougeot / le Mercier: Their FD is another favorite of mine today, especially the second part as they showed great musicality. Not sure about their RD but hey, at least it's different.

Bratti / Somerville: Yeah he's a lot better than her and the FD is quite bland. I enjoyed their RD choreography though. BTW I do wonder why both Gr/Pa and B/S have the same hydroblading move in their RD, it doesn't even fit the music very well.

Kazakova / Reviya: The only thing I remember now is the impressive entry to their RD lift. The rest is forgettable and I wonder who chose Schindler's List for this team.

Chen / Xing: They're improving so quickly! Can't say the programs are very original but still very nice skated.

Shi / Wu: I thought they were only aiming at the National Winter Games and was pleasantly surprised that they got international assignments. Same as C/X, programs are not that original but nicely skated. I think both Chinese teams did their best here.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Lane and Razgulajevs don’t ever seem to be concerned about G/P’s levels, and, at that tier, where rose-tinted judging glasses are plentiful, G/P can’t count on the other top teams missing theirs.

Lajoie/Lagha have yet to beat Fournier-Beaudry/Sorensen in head-to-head competition . L/L beat them once in a FD at Can Nats, when FB/S lost an element. L/L’s PB total score at CoC is a tired day at the office for FB/S. Do people see that L/L will overtake them, or is there a general sense that FB/S and maybe G/P will leave after Montreal Worlds?

ETA: J’adore L/L and would love to see this happen and for L/L to get their due. I thought they were amazing here, even if the camera doesn’t capture speed and ice coverage well.

 

[topaz]

Good dance event.

The US teams - Green/Parsons program is still iffy for me. It looked better here but still not as sharp.
Pate/Bye - They have strong elements and speed but Eva was not at her best today.
Bratti/Somerville - He is such a strong skater and she is not. His line and extension are excellent, but Bratti's is not. I enjoyed the program but not sure if this puts them over Zingas and partner, The Browns nor C/P.

Piper & Paul - Skated tentatively and tight in both dance sections. The FD, the first half was skated tight. They skated the 2nd portion well with better speed and performance. They missed some levels in the twizzles, steps and the judges scored them correctly on those elements.

Marjorie & Zach - This is the best they've skated, ever. I would have them FIRST based on the skating and performance they put out. Maybe a less than or 1 point overall total. It will be interesting to see how the Canadian teams skate and place at the GPF. I think Marjorie & Zach may move up to #2 team in Canada by the end of this season. As much I like FB/S as a team and adore Laurence's skating(she's the best female ice dance in the world currently competing in my opinion - she has great performance quality, beautiful lines, skating skills). As a TEAM, L/L look stronger. Better matched.

I really liked the Chinese team of Chen/Wang.

The French were my favorite here. The program suits them well. They need to consistenty get better levels and improve on their step sequences. They really should be challenging L/B for the #1 spot in France.

 

[tony]

Lajoie/Lagha have yet to beat Fournier-Beaudry/Sorensen in head-to-head competition . L/L beat them once in a FD at Can Nats, when FB/S lost an element. L/L’s PB total score at CoC is a tired day at the office for FB/S. Do people see that L/L will overtake them, or is there a general sense that FB/S and maybe G/P will leave after Montreal Worlds?

I don't know what is in the cards for G/P or even FB/S, but I think in a fair world L/L would be solidly 4th-slated going into Worlds with the chance of getting onto the podium if there are mistakes from the 'big three'. I think they already are better in certain aspects than both C/B and Gilles/Poirier, for what it's worth, but I highly doubt their big move will happen already this season. I can only hope that the tech panels and judges reward their skating quality and program intricacies more than the Brits and FB/S.

Now, what probably actually happens? A comfortable 6th, which is where they surely would've been last season.

 

[skategal]

Lane and Razgulajevs don’t ever seem to be concerned about G/P’s levels, and, at that tier, where rose-tinted judging glasses are plentiful, G/P can’t count on the other top teams missing theirs.

Lajoie/Lagha have yet to beat Fournier-Beaudry/Sorensen in head-to-head competition . L/L beat them once in a FD at Can Nats, when FB/S lost an element. L/L’s PB total score at CoC is a tired day at the office for FB/S. Do people see that L/L will overtake them, or is there a general sense that FB/S and maybe G/P will leave after Montreal Worlds?

ETA: J’adore L/L and would love to see this happen and for L/L to get their due. I thought they were amazing here, even if the camera doesn’t capture speed and ice coverage well.

I suspect FB/S may retire after Montreal.

Lolo is fabulous and could skate forever but I wonder about Nik and his injuries.

No clue about G/P but if they win in Montreal, I could see them retiring.

 

[skatingguy]

And now POTO?? What have I ever done to the people of China to be punished in this way??

This was a rhetorical question, right?

 

[barbarafan]

Canadian Nationals is going to be really interesting. Might all come down who controls their nerves the best.

canadian domestic judges seem to do what they are told.Carol Lane has a lot of push. International judges seem to always be in the middle so I think quite fair.

 

[tony]

canadian domestic judges seem to do what they are told.Carol Lane has a lot of push. International judges seem to always be in the middle so I think quite fair.

Yeah they sure 'do what they are told' so much that Skate Canada has to sometimes institute a skate-off or holding off of naming teams until another event occurs.

 

[Rukia]

lala for canadian champs yeah i said it

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

G&P will be the third-place Canadian team by the next Olympics,

nope

 

[peibeck]

Marjorie and Grumpy Cat wuzrobbed.

And if they don't surpass (at least) the Brits at the GPF, I will scream so loud you'll all have terror flashbacks taking you back to Tara Lapinski in Nagano.

 

[PRlady]

Well I’d sure be interested to see a real tussle at Canadian Nats, we are also due for one at US Nats. For that matter, the French could be interesting although I think L/B still hold first for now.

 

[Matryeshka]

While I don't think this event was skated all that great, the speculation for future events is GREAT. I would, however, like to remind everyone hopping on Train LaLa, at this time last year, we were all saying the same thing about how Chock/Bates were over, maybe they should just skip the GPF cause they're done, and...ummm...yeah, our ESPN not so good collectively with that one. Sometimes a GP event is just....a GP event.

 

[skatingguy]

While I don't think this event was skated all that great, the speculation for future events is GREAT. I would, however, like to remind everyone hopping on Train LaLa, at this time last year, we were all saying the same thing about how Chock/Bates were over, maybe they should just skip the GPF cause they're done, and...ummm...yeah, our ESPN not so good collectively with that one. Sometimes a GP event is just....a GP event.

Yes, but it wouldn't be figure skating, and it wouldn't be overreaction season if we didn't, you know, overreact. My ESP says skating will never be back on ESPN, but then I was wrong about Chock/Bates last season, so you never know.

 

[Theatregirl1122]

Which of the first four wasn't a warhorse?

I don't think Phantom was actually a warhorse since it was not the Broadway musical Phantom of the Opera at all. Whatever that was is not frequently used.

The thing for me is that I wish Ice Dance could at least be more like the other disciplines in judging. In ice dance, it's hard to move more than a few places and if a team that isn't on your "level" beats you one day, then that's because you're being DROPPED. There's still tons of politics in the rest of skating, but it feels like one person having a bad day and being scored fairly for it doesn't like ruin their chance of future medals in the same way.

Like at 2021 Skate America, Nathan Chen was not good and lost to both Vincent and Shoma. But in ice dance, if Chock and Bates have a bad event, they aren't going to lose to Hawayek & Baker and Fear & Gibson. Especially not Hawayek and Baker. Them losing to FB&S was a huge deal already, but that also kind of carried forward not at all.

Realistically, I think Chock and Bates should have lost to Hawayek and Baker at SA last year and Gilles and Poirier should have lost here. Not because they're like Not Contenders Anymore, but because they weren't good, and Marjorie and Zach were, much as I don't like them. But it feels like that would then be a whole Big Deal.

It just feels like things seldom get scored as like "this is how things went today but not How Things Are Forever" in ice dance.

 

[tony]

I don't think Phantom was actually a warhorse since it was not the Broadway musical Phantom of the Opera at all. Whatever that was is not frequently used.

It's from Phantom of the Opera on Ice, and hasn't been used all that much in skating. Irina Slutskaya used selections from it for both her short and long in 1997, the latter of which many people feel is one of her best programs.

 

[her grace]

Thoughts on FD

Demougeot/le Mercier: Great job and probably should have been higher. The technique is strong. Soft knees. Interesting shapes and musicality. Great lifts. A bit slow although the music is slow so it does work for this piece.

Bratti/Somerville: Bratti holds her own from the blade down. Her footwork is as good or better than Somerville, but they look mismatched since his carriage is several levels better than hers. Other than the lift which definitely had some problems, their technique is plenty strong, but their presentation continues to need some work. Frankly, I'm not that impressed with the MIDA school, which has made a lot of bland programs.

Pate/Bye: Skating to Davis/White hand-me-downs. They skate with confidence and they look fairly evenly skilled (sometimes Bye appears stronger). Neither of them, however, finish their lines or point their toes. They also have that Igor-style choreography, which doesn't require a lot of strong, sustained edges, but does what it needs to to get the levels. Pate was a little off on some of the steps here.

Green/Parsons: The lifts really break up the program because they aren't seamless. Otherwise, the program continues to improve and it's a different look than a lot of other teams, which will help them stand out. They've lost a lot of ground to L/L, however.

Lajoie/Lagha: Fantastic level of skating. Everyone in this field performed twizzles from a slow speed except them. Really, L/L looked like they could skate circles around this entire field. Their experience as a team also really shows in this program. While the Americans look like they're still figuring out how to gel together (minus Pate/Bye who do have that experienced team look), these two look like they know exactly where their partner is and have this sense of ease to their partnership. Great job. I would love to see the judges/Skate Canada start treating the Canadian threesome like the U.S. did with the Shibs, Hubbell/Donohue, and Chock/Bates-any given Sunday whoever skates the best comes out on top.

Gilles/Poirier: Definitely the best storytelling and emotion from this field and they do a nice job of imbuing meaning into the elements as if they are part of the story. Some of the technique looked clunky in comparison to L/L.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Neither of them, however, finish their lines

really? I think Logan is the king of finishing his lines, I am watching him all the time because of it.