Gracie taking some time off to seek professional help

[Sylvia]

The skating community is small, compared to other sports, and our stars in their prime are kids and very young adults. I think the rules of engagement for fans and journalists should be different and regularly come up against scrutiny.
...
In skating, especially now with social media, I think we fans now offer a lot of the affirmation to these young athletes, maybe more directly than in other sports, and I think that's wonderful. I think they do pay attention. And I think that this more direct and personal connection is where the concern for more caution comes from.

@Jozet!

 

[GreatLakesGal]

Um, maybe not throw her jacket in the trash and then vent to the media about her? JFC, it's not that hard, he's supposed to be this mature respected figure, he could have very easily said to the press "Gracie has some private issues to deal with and that's all I'll be saying" instead of acting the way he did, and I will add: if any other coach had behaved that way to their student at Nationals, the roasting and lambasting would have been enormous. Why should Carroll get a pass just because he's Carroll?

Carroll hasn't gotten a pass. He's received a lot of criticism for his actions.

But is it necessary to continue to demonize him for what was undoubtedly a weak moment on his part? As Gracie herself has said, Frank took her on when she was desperately in need of a new coach. And he coached her to a fourth place finish at the Olympics and two national titles.

Frank was Gracie's coach, not her parent. From what's been reported, it sounds like he went out of his way to get her back on the ice and training again last year--something many other coaches would never do. He also advised her to skip her GP events because he knew she wasn't ready for them. Not only did she not heed his sound advice but she also insisted on going to Golden Spin, with disastrous results.

Is it any wonder that he finally snapped when she threw her vest at him and it landed on the ground? I don't care how upset you are. You don't treat people like that, especially your almost 80-year-old coach who's been doing his best to help you succeed.

 

[aftershocks]

... I was actually being serious about Ilinykh's weight. When I saw her at Skate America last year and commented that she looked "morbidly obese," I was one hundred percent serious. She looked like she weighed at least 500 pounds, probably closer to 700 pounds.

I also think that Aljona should be forced to retire. In fact, I think that any skater over the age of 18 should be sent to Siberia and forced into hard labor making couture accessories for Tutberidze. For female single skaters, that age should be even younger: as soon as they hit puberty, send them away. No secondary sex characteristics because Polymer Bob would be horrified.

Also, all godless homosexual men of skating should be forced to compete in the ladies division. Wearing dresses or skorts or catsuits. And with the make-up gun set to Tammy Faye.

Moreover, the ISU should create a separate branch for skaters who aren't white. Those people wouldn't be allowed to compete at Worlds or the Olympics, but we'd give them fried chicken or fortune cookies if they can do a nice spin and land a couple of jumps.

Back on topic, it's clear to me that Gracie Gold is suffering from a combination of satanic possession and multiple personality disorder. The "professional help" is obviously a combination exorcism/series of appointments with the same therapist who discovered Sybil. May she be brought back to the path of holiness and singularity!!!

^^^ Thanks for lightening things up in these here parts @Aerobicidal. You are too much... Nope, let me rephrase. You are just being you and/or your alter ego, and that's cool.

Now my two-cents honestly in this moment, and not meant to COP on others, just how I feel:

... The best thing for her to do is probably end her career since it's caused so many problems that she doesn't need. A sad story indeed.

Why such melancholy dirge? There's no need to characterize things that way, IMO. Probably the best thing at the moment is to think about ourselves, our own challenges and what we can learn individually, and perhaps to do as Joe Johnson and some other skaters have suggested, and let Gracie be. Maybe stop with the rehashing, dissecting, finger-pointing, rubbernecking, and prognosticating… Perhaps what's best if you truly care is to simply keep GG in your thoughts and to wish her well.

In my comments and well wishes for Julia Lipnitskaya, I was also thinking of Gracie. I did not mention Gracie by name, but I think the same of her: She's special in her own right; she's achieved a great deal in her young life, and she deserves the space to breathe, to refresh her spirit and to do whatever she desires for herself without OTT gossip from the skating world. I support Gracie, and I'm sending her hugs, love and smiles.

You can do whatever you dream that's in your heart, Gracie. In and of itself, life is not about medals, or riches, or the icing-on-the-cake. It's about learning how to fly free and continuing to find your inner you, your zen, and that wonderful feeling of hugging kitties. You are so young -- the best is yet to come. Thanks for being you and for striving in the arena of life, for getting up every day and putting your heart into it! Best wishes always. You go girl!
https://www.instagram.com/p/BVGK6MDB4gq/?hl=en&taken-by=graciegold95

And I'm also with @Aerobicidal re the fact that laughter is the best medicine!

 

[Karpenko]

@Karpenko If you think my Ivana Komova posts are "just kidding" as opposed to actually just kidding, you've accused me of being homophobic, racist, anti-Semitic, anti-American, pro-Putin, fascist, and sexist.

Although I find it somewhat amusing that those accusations may mean you dislike me even more than danafan, the idea that I would engage with any of it is ludicrous.

I've always found it horrifying when FSU posters make shitty comments about skaters being overweight, and if making fun of those posts is the same as reifying them, well, I just don't get it.

But I don't get a lot of stuff.

I'm not accusing you of anything other than taking plenty of cheap swipes yourself. You think it's cool to harp on other people who have never even associated with you before, who you have no relationship established with where it's "cool" that you do, and wonder why you get it thrown back when you're constantly doing it to lots of people?

I used to be a fatass. I also used to have an eating disorder. Is that anybodies business? Nope but I lost over 120 lbs in 12 years and became a healthy (emotionally healthy too) person. Thankfully I used to literally have a "very thick skin" and can handle a fat joke from you like "Carbs O'Loadin from Ireland" without taking it too personally. Whatever, you don't like fat people.

Taking cheap swipes at Jenny Kirk when she's going out of her way to share her story to make a positive difference in the sport deserves way more respect than the cheap swipes you'll take at her (and anybody that you deem worthy) for her personal life and any other info you can get your petty hands on. You literally think Elena is huge and it's cool to publically shame her? Good for you. Personally I think you could deal with a nice healthy reality check.

I actually do think you're rather brilliant and can be hella funny, but sometimes you miss the mark and aren't exactly out of the line of fire yourself. Especially if you're going to be calling out other people on their bullshit constantly.

 

[clairecloutier]

@Karpenko I think that @Aerobicidal's stuff is usually meant as satire and isn't meant to be taken seriously? That's always been my impression, anyway. But I get that jokes about weight and eating disorder issues can sometimes not be funny, as it's a very sensitive issue.

 

[demetriosj]

I feel like from the start when she burst onto the scene in 2011-12 as this powerful explosive jumper and the hype started and people were already saying she was the savior of US Ladies skating that no one gave this girl the chance to develop at her own pace in any way. .

Let this be a lesson, warning, for other parents, coaches, "teams", etc. not to promote the heck out of, and over-hype a junior-level skater and put them in that position.

 

[ilovepaydays]

Is it any wonder that he finally snapped when she threw her vest at him and it landed on the ground? I don't care how upset you are. You don't treat people like that, especially your almost 80-year-old coach who's been doing his best to help you succeed.

Did she really throw it at him? I thought that Gracie asked Frank to throw it in the trash. But if that kind of disrespect happened, I would think that almost no coach would continue to work with an athletes after that.

Let this be a lesson, warning, for other parents, coaches, "teams", etc. not to promote the heck out of, and over-hype a junior-level skater and put them in that position.

Agreed. Isn't it weird that the boards/twitter/TSL are going hysterical over Eun-Soo Lim today? She may end up being a terrific skater. But her Wikipedia says she's 14 and she just did a JGP in early September. Calm down, folks.

There's some good reasons why, as much as I love to watch figure skating, I don't really pay attention to skaters until they reach seniors. And only after I really like a skater, I will go back and search on YouTube about their younger career. And I don't really get that excited about what happens at any competition at this time in a season.

 

[MacMadame]

To be fair, I'm sure TSL brought some fans into the sport

I'm not. I see no evidence that people outside the sport have any idea that TSL exists. It seems to be completely aimed at insiders and active fans (vs. passive fans).

Have any of the recent articles specified the nature of Gracie's mental issues? Is it substance abuse? Eating disorder (a la Julia L)? General depression/blues? Other? She shot up out of nowhere when she won the JrGP-Poland in fall 2011. Too much, too soon? Whatever is behind the problem, her story should make for an interesting book, many years from now.

WTF is wrong with you?

Why do people assume "seeking professional help" means depression? She could be seeing a sports psychologist. That was the first thing I thought of considering she was quoted saying it was on the ice she did not feel like herself. Coping with pressure etc...are issues they help with.

But they do that while the athlete is engaging in their sports. A lot of what they do not only doesn't require taking time off but would be less effective if an athlete took time off.

That said, it doesn't have to be depression. It could be anything.

Of course he is going to talk about it

There is no "of course" about it. It was a choice on his part. Nothing to stop him from saying "Ask Gracie" or "that's private."

I am not speculating nothing, someone said that there is not treatment or medicine for Depression

She said there wasn't ONE treatmeant. As in there isn't one thing that works all the time for anyone. Including "anti-depressants" which aren't even one treatment as there are several classes of them and what works for one doesn't work for another.

But-what do I know.

About Gold and her situation? Absolutely nothing.

You don't know what kind of relationship she has with her father and what role he plays in her life, for starters.

 

[chapis]

She said there wasn't ONE treatmeant. As in there isn't one thing that works all the time for anyone. Including "anti-depressants" which aren't even one treatment as there are several classes of them and what works for one doesn't work for another.

.

Like almost every disease. She said, like Diabetes, Diabetes has more than ONE medicine, not every drug works for everyone, and part of the treatment is changes in life style, very difficult too.

 

[hanca]

@Karpenko I think that @Aerobicidal's stuff is usually meant as satire and isn't meant to be taken seriously? That's always been my impression, anyway. But I get that jokes about weight and eating disorder issues can sometimes not be funny, as it's a very sensitive issue.

I am sure it is meant to be satire and not to be taken seriously. The skaters who are targets don't seem to see the funny side though; they do take it seriously. For example, I don't think Savchenko was laughing.

 

[Skibean]

Is her father's situation likely to be affecting her? Yes. Do you (or Dave) have EVIDENCE that proves it's part of her crisis and that it's a major reason for her deciding to seek professional help? No, you don't. And that's the main point I've been trying to make about Dave bringing it up. But bringing it up gets him more attention and clicks and likes, and makes him look like more of an insider to her situation than he probably is, which he thrives on. Gracie needs space, compassion, and time to work on her issues. Not a pseudo-celebrity getting all the attention he can by milking her story.

Sounds like you're feeling guilty for the things you've said about Gracie and you're pretending to care now. Oh, what a great person you are because you're all over the Internet lecturing people. You're keeping this going with your petty nonsense on social media. Talk about milking it. Some of us know the coaches and skaters being bashed. Give it a rest.

 

[overedge]

Sounds like you're feeling guilty for the things you've said about Gracie and you're pretending to care now. Oh, what a great person you are because you're all over the Internet lecturing people. You're keeping this going with your petty nonsense on social media. Talk about milking it. Some of us know the coaches and skaters being bashed. Give it a rest.

Wow. Why are you assuming that no one here knows those skaters either? And for someone throwing around accusations of obsessive attention, you claim to know an awful lot about this poster's activities elsewhere. Sounds like you need to give it a rest too.

 

[misskarne]

Sounds like you're feeling guilty for the things you've said about Gracie and you're pretending to care now. Oh, what a great person you are because you're all over the Internet lecturing people. You're keeping this going with your petty nonsense on social media. Talk about milking it. Some of us know the coaches and skaters being bashed. Give it a rest.

Hi Dave!

 

[Willin]

@Skibean If you know the skaters/coaches (Especially coaches of the older generation), you'd know they don't use internet skating forums no matter how "secret" or "insider" they are. I've seen a couple skaters google themselves for fun, but generally all they find is competition results, news articles, and occasionally an bio from the Wikipedia/ISU/IceNetwork/the skater's own official website. If they do pay attention to social media, it isn't forums - it's their twitter/FB/Instagram pages where people can directly interact with them, not forums. Some even ignore social media or have someone (a parent/friend/media consultant) who will manage what they can see, particularly during the season; others just aren't phased by much on social media any more, and are fine with it.

The only skaters who have forum discussion results in their first five pages of google results are those who don't compete internationally, and so few of them are even brought up on forums that I doubt they'd appear.

Everyone draws the line differently for what criticism is allowable on social media. On actual social media where an actual skater running their actual profile would see (or even if they have someone else managing their profile, but it's the official one), I will never post anything negative. Obviously, as others have pointed out on this thread and others, a lot of people don't follow that rule. I've found a lot of posters here are actually a lot nicer than those I've seen on other social media.
Personally, I have three rules about criticizing skaters.
1. The skater must be at the top levels and be a contender for international spots (Senior or Junior). Nothing negative about the youngest skaters, those at lower ranks, those who won't make any international team but compete nationally because they love it, etc.
2. I won't say anything negative about a skater's personal matters or off-the-ice matters including family troubles, personal relationship stuff, health issues, etc. That's just tacky. They are only putting their skating out there for me to see, so it would be inappropriate to criticize them for something unrelated for that. Even if they let on to something personal, I keep it positive - they don't have to let us see anything personal, and when they do it should be respected as anyone's personal issues are. After all, they are humans just like us with the exception of being very good figure skaters.
3. I won't just bash a skater. I try to add in at least one positive thing for every negative thing I say or present any criticism in a polite or constructive manner.

 

[Skibean]

@Skibean If you know the skaters/coaches (Especially coaches of the older generation), you'd know they don't use internet skating forums no matter how "secret" or "insider" they are. I've seen a couple skaters google themselves for fun, but generally all they find is competition results, news articles, and occasionally an bio from the Wikipedia/ISU/IceNetwork/the skater's own official website. If they do pay attention to social media, it isn't forums - it's their twitter/FB/Instagram pages where people can directly interact with them, not forums. Some even ignore social media or have someone (a parent/friend/media consultant) who will manage what they can see, particularly during the season; others just aren't phased by much on social media any more, and are fine with it.

The only skaters who have forum discussion results in their first five pages of google results are those who don't compete internationally, and so few of them are even brought up on forums that I doubt they'd appear.

Everyone draws the line differently for what criticism is allowable on social media. On actual social media where an actual skater running their actual profile would see (or even if they have someone else managing their profile, but it's the official one), I will never post anything negative. Obviously, as others have pointed out on this thread and others, a lot of people don't follow that rule. I've found a lot of posters here are actually a lot nicer than those I've seen on other social media.
Personally, I have three rules about criticizing skaters.
1. The skater must be at the top levels and be a contender for international spots (Senior or Junior). Nothing negative about the youngest skaters, those at lower ranks, those who won't make any international team but compete nationally because they love it, etc.
2. I won't say anything negative about a skater's personal matters or off-the-ice matters including family troubles, personal relationship stuff, health issues, etc. That's just tacky. They are only putting their skating out there for me to see, so it would be inappropriate to criticize them for something unrelated for that. Even if they let on to something personal, I keep it positive - they don't have to let us see anything personal, and when they do it should be respected as anyone's personal issues are. After all, they are humans just like us with the exception of being very good figure skaters.
3. I won't just bash a skater. I try to add in at least one positive thing for every negative thing I say or present any criticism in a polite or constructive manner.

Your point being? I don't think I've ever noticed a single post from you. I pointed out the hypocrisy of someone that bashed a skater repeatedly, took offense to something posted and decided to take on the role of her defender. Certainly this poster isn't the only guilty party, and maybe you have a guilty conscience for comments you made. Not sure why you inserted yourself- Perhaps we talk to the same skaters/coaches/families, but that's neither here nor there. I simply pointed out the hypocrisy. Now I'm really going back to lurking, since all replies have glossed over the original intent.

 

[overedge]

Your point being? I don't think I've ever noticed a single post from you.

For a self-proclaimed long time lurker you seem to have missed a lot.

Not sure why you inserted yourself

A long time lurker would know this is a discussion board where people respond to each other's posts. Not a site run by a single person who gets to control who participates in which discussions.

 

[Willin]

@Skibean Perhaps because I was reminding you that different posters have different standards of what is/is not appropriate to say. I offered my own standards as an example of where I personally draw the line. If you are a lurker that reads several forums, surely you should know that the forums have different standards for what is acceptable and not acceptable to post.
My standard is different from @Yazmeen 's is different from your's, and that is nothing to get angry about, particularly because I question how much the skaters actually see posts on forums (something else I brought up in that post).

 

[Yazmeen]

I would like to clarify one thing: I would have reacted the same way if the skater involved was Ashley Wagner, Mirai Nagasu, Jason Brown (3 of my favorites) or otherwise. The point was what was said/done, and the assumptions and ties made "out loud," so to speak; not the skater involved.

 

[once_upon]

Like almost every disease. She said, like Diabetes, Diabetes has more than ONE medicine, not every drug works for everyone, and part of the treatment is changes in life style, very difficult too.

Since we have Zero evidence of anything or health issue that might be part of Gracie taking a break, other than her interview, argument over medical treatment is useless.

If you would like to PM me about both Diabetes mellitus Type 1 and Type 2, Diabetes Insipidus, MDD, or other mental illnesses, I'll willingly debate with you the Diagnostic Codes, the fallacies of general practitioners, let alone someone on a social media forum, being able to adequately treat any of them with a simple insulin, oral insulin (for Type 1 &2), antidepressant, anti-anxiety prescription and very complex drug regimes for a myriad of mental health illnesses. Including the dangers of someone on a social media forum making flippant remarks about "antidepressant" medications.

None of that discussion belongs in an armchair diagnosis on a social media site. So PM away.

I believe Gracie said she was taking a break but intended to compete in the future. I stand by my first post which someone, I think Frau Muller used Depression/Blues, BLUES is NOT depression.

 

[MacMadame]

Like almost every disease. She said, like Diabetes, Diabetes has more than ONE medicine, not every drug works for everyone, and part of the treatment is changes in life style, very difficult too.

Diabetes is a well-understood disease with well-understood treatments. Depression is not.

 

[chapis]

yes, it is definitely better to continue this conversation in private, I am curious to know if something was lost in the translation.

 

[jenniferlyon]

Also: TBH, if I were being critical, I wish that Frank could have been a little more quiet in reference to Gracie. Last year's "she was in a deep deep depression" and "she was skating like shit" all seemed a bit unnecessary. He also made reference to Mirai's "emotional problems" after they split. I wondered why Christine went to Frank for an article quote and Marina was left out of it completely.

I can think of two reasons:
1. Christine may have developed a friendly relationship with Frank back in the day when she was writing her skating books. Her writing was very pro-Kwan and this may be one of those situations where, after all these years, she can still depend on good ol' Frank for a quote when she's writing a skating article.
2. Marina may not be so eager to talk to the media. As Gracie's current coach, she has good reasons to be protective of her. Besides, Marina just doesn't seem like the kind of person who tells tales to the media or plays up whatever drama is happening in her students' lives.

 

[Karpenko]

@Karpenko I think that @Aerobicidal's stuff is usually meant as satire and isn't meant to be taken seriously? That's always been my impression, anyway. But I get that jokes about weight and eating disorder issues can sometimes not be funny, as it's a very sensitive issue.

My point is that @Aerobicidal can take swipes at whoever they want and can hide behind some bogus fake identity. That's fine if you actually have some boundaries once in awhile. If you come after people you generally just don't care for, sometimes in reality you don't know a damn thing about them?

Sometimes it can be funny, but sometimes it's and makes me wonder where it's coming from. The people here think it's funny, the skaters think it's negative drama and it's sometimes confused for a real interview (like Aljona last season).

I'm not necessarily taking offense to anything said (but calling you out on the shade thrown at me "as Ivana" in the past - I don't even know you! I've never talked to you, met you, associated with you... just like Jenny Kirk?? ), but pointing out that not everybody will take it as a joke. He is just as guilty as Dave Lease for being petty IMO, he just doesnt have as big of an outlet as Dave, is smarter than Dave, and can call it all a parody.

 

[Mad for Skating]

Hey guys, I see it's getting a little heated in here, and I just have to say CALM THE HECK DOWN.

Is mental health important? Yes. Does going for professional help mean you have a huge, life-ending problem? Not always. I once had to go for counseling because of anxiety, and I'm totally fine now (except for when I watch skating LOL). So Gracie could be fine in a short amount of time.
I don't know what exactly is going on with her, but I think 2016 Worlds really screwed her up. I'm not sure if she has an actual eating disorder, and we all know it's perfectly normal to gain weight during off-season. So that didn't help the case in the 2016-17 season. But even as she started getting back into shape, it was a domino effect - she blows one event, gets frustrated, and that makes her blow the next event worse. Right now she's probably ticked off that last season sucked, and anyone in that boat could easily get somewhat depressed. That all makes perfect sense to me.

Also, guys, why don't you spend less time quarreling with the other forum members and more time worrying about the topic of the thread aka Gracie? We're here to share opinions on skating, not to bother each other on personal matters.

 

[judiz]

Obviously you know nothing about Major Depressive Disorder, the complexity of treatment, the failure rates of using a single antidepressant or SSRI. The need for multiple drug therapies and or psychotherapy or any number of treatment that may or may not work.

If all it took was a magic pill, my husband would not be facing his 7th psychiatric hospitalization. As someone who is living with mental illness 24/7, the best thing Gracie needs now is time, professional help and the love of her family.

 

[Prancer]

AHEM.

If you have an ax to grind with another poster, please take it to PM and stop thrashing it out on this thread.

 

[thvu]

@Jeschke , can this thread join #teamtrainwreck?

 

[Spun Silver]

yes, it is definitely better to continue this conversation in private, I am curious to know if something was lost in the translation.

This thread just touched a lot of nerves. Maybe those who took offense don't "know" you. You are always supportive of skaters.

 

[DimaToe]

I promised myself to keep away from this thread but who am I kidding I think it's disrespectful to assume that a skater has some sort of mental illness even if there is to evidence to say otherwise, until the skater tells us otherwise. The fact that a mod is posting in this thread should be proof enough of how ugly this thread is becoming.

 

[skateboy]

Where, in these articles published by Phil Hersh, Christine Brennan... and whomever else... does Gracie actually say anything other than she is taking some time to seek professional help?

Does she mention her father? No. Did she say anything about weight or depression? No.

Does she say she is taking off the entire year or quitting entirely? No. In fact, she says exactly the opposite... that she is working toward her GP assignments and hopes this step helps show improvement in her performances. That is all she said.

I find all these media reports infuriating. Gracie does not say she is "stepping away" from the sport, nor does she say she is taking five months off, but the headlines sure indicate otherwise. She is withdrawing from Japan Open... not exactly earth-shattering news. It really pisses me off that these reporters have already decided to write her skating career obituary. Even worse, the majority of FS fans are believing it. Fake news, much?

For sh*t's sake... Gracie apparently was seen doing doubles over the summer, so all hell breaks loose. Well, so were lots of other top skaters. I don't know about a weight issue... she looks okay to me, but if she needs to reduce, I am sure she will deal with that.

For me, Gracie's announcement was nothing more than saying, "I've got some stuff going on that I need to handle, so that's what I'm doing." Sounds like a positive step to me.