Grammar thread

[Susan1]

Haven't seen this thread for awhile.

I want reporters to stop saying "foward" instead of "forward".

And a funny, on one of our c.v. vaccine phase slides, it said "pregnant people" could now get the vaccine. Are they trying to be PC and not saying "pregnant women" or are they including the men who say "we're pregnant"? ha ha

 

[overedge]

The rule I learned about semi-colons is to put them in between two sentences instead of a period, when a full stop would break the flow. It's a graceful transition, like this; it works quite well.

 

[Susan1]

Not grammar, just t.v. speak that's driving me crazy (could go in pet peeves) - people like Joe Scarborough who say ~"in states like Ohio, in states like Indiana, in states like Kentucky". Just say the states. It's not "like" them. It is them. "In Ohio, Indiana, Kentucky". Or even longer things where he repeats the introductory thing and then repeats it for each thing that could just be after a comma. Do they get paid by the word?

And I have noticed the females on all of our local stations put "a" in front of practically everything anymore. Not "uh". "Here's John, a-live in the studio." "We are at a vaccine clinic in a-Dayton." That's all I hear.

 

[Jenny]

Well it's better to have the thread open as I always come with new questions myself. I have so many students who don't know much about Grammar and others who come up with intriguing questions that need answers. The other day we were discussing in class about semicolons and their use and many questions were mainly due to lack of practice. I then decided to give them a bit of extra homework and see the results after they complete some semicolons worksheets that I found online and looked really well-made to not use. I'll be sharing my results next week.

You might enjoy this, and the comments are interesting too, especially this one since you are looking for ways to teach this:


I teach my eighth graders that a semicolon should be used sparingly because it's special. Plus, it's like love, which is why I have them play a game I created, "The Semicolon Dating Game," near Valentine's Day. Here is why a semicolon is like love (note use of colon to begin a list): 1) It can only be used between two independent clauses (No one wants someone who is dependent and clingy; you want them to stand on their own). 2) It can't be connected with a conjunction (That means it's already attached.) 3) The second half clarifies the first ("You complete me!").

Not grammar, just t.v. speak that's driving me crazy (could go in pet peeves) - people like Joe Scarborough who say ~"in states like Ohio, in states like Indiana, in states like Kentucky". Just say the states. It's not "like" them. It is them. "In Ohio, Indiana, Kentucky". Or even longer things where he repeats the introductory thing and then repeats it for each thing that could just be after a comma. Do they get paid by the word?

Early in my career I had a brutal boss who was also an excellent editor. Her rule, which I follow to this day, is that "like" means it isn't actually, whereas "such as" means here's an example of what I'm talking about.

 

[Susan1]

Early in my career I had a brutal boss who was also an excellent editor. Her rule, which I follow to this day, is that "like" means it isn't actually, whereas "such as" means here's an example of what I'm talking about.

It's not the "like" I'm talking about in that example. If he's specifically talking about Ohio, Indiana and Kentucky, not states like them, just say it. And repeating the whole beginning. Here would be an example - "I went to a state like Ohio. I went to a state like Indiana. I went to a state like Kentucky." No. "I went to Ohio, Indiana and Kentucky." And get to the point of why you went or what they have in common. Pet peeve. I think Joe Scarborough just likes to hear his own voice.

 

[KCC]

I frequently use semicolons in long sentences that contain a list, especially if one or more listed items have commas. My most recent example was in a sentence that listed some reasons why birds are important to ecosystems: they control insect populations, which reduces the need for added pesticides; they pollinate many plants used by humans for food and medicine; they transform landscapes by spreading seeds and nutrients through their droppings;.....

 

[MacMadame]

I love semi-colons.

 

[barbk]

This is the year when high school became one word: highschool. Some of my students have also developed a strange (and unhelpful) fascination with the semicolon. It used to be discussions on affect vs. effect. Now I'm back to reminding folks to capitalize proper nouns. Sigh.

 

[Jenny]

It's the commas that drive me nuts - I find so many younger people overuse them, and then when one is actually needed, it's not there!

And when did it become fashionable to place a comma right before a verb?

 

[Susan1]

It's the commas that drive me nuts - I find so many younger people overuse them, and then when one is actually needed, it's not there!

And when did it become fashionable to place a comma right before a verb?

Back to probably my first post in the original thread - apostrophes anywhere there is an s. The "Appraisal's First" sign at a busy intersection has been gone for years. Obviously, I still remember it.

 

[barbk]

Back to probably my first post in the original thread - apostrophes anywhere there is an s. The "Appraisal's First" sign at a busy intersection has been gone for years. Obviously, I still remember it.

Mr. BarbK says that the purpose of the apostrophe today is to let you know an "s" is coming.

 

[gkelly]

And when did it become fashionable to place a comma right before a verb?

Better than a comma right before an open parenthesis.

 

[Prancer]

It's the commas that drive me nuts - I find so many younger people overuse them, and then when one is actually needed, it's not there!

And when did it become fashionable to place a comma right before a verb?

Commas are tricky because we are in the process of eliminating punctuation and so the rules are not consistent. This seems to have sent some people running in the opposite direction.

I tell some of my classes that some papers look like students pinned their papers to the side of a barn, loaded a shotgun with commas and blasted away. They laugh. I'm not kidding.

Sometimes students tell me they were taught to put a comma wherever they take a breath and I will ask if they were running while writing.

I wouldn't say it is fashionable to put a comma before a verb; I've always had a few students do that. When I explain the rule that you can never separate a subject and verb with a single comma, but you can with two (because you have inserted a parenthetical), most of them tell me they never noticed that there was a second comma in those sentences.

My pet peeve at the moment is the use of "however" as a coordinating conjunction. I've been marking that wrong for years, but I am now seeing it in so many professional publications that I am about to give up. It's a clearly a losing battle. But it is just WRONG.

 

[once_upon]

I tend to visualize commas and semicolons in how I see my oral phrasing into written word.

Using a comma, when I am pausing in the original thought, to continue the conversation.

A semicolon when making a list of connected thoughts.

I'm not an English or literature professional - I'm probably wrong. Which isn't unusual - me being wrong.

 

[MacMadame]

This is the main rule of commas that I use:

When in doubt, leave it out.

 

[syzygy]

I can't stand when there's no comma before a coordinating conjunction.

 

[kwanfan1818]

I am continually annoyed by the use of apostrophes when the noun is plural. Example: There were 3 doctor's in the clinic. I'm seeing this more & more online & in print.

repent and believe in the proper use of apostrophes

Your friend, kwanfan1818, who believes that commas are like garlic and dill: can't have too much of either.

 

[Prancer]

I can't stand when there's no comma before a coordinating conjunction.

Life is only going to get harder for you.

Your friend, kwanfan1818, who believes that commas are like garlic and dill: can't have too much of either.

One, white-feathered, swan, wants to swim, across the lake.

 

[taf2002]

I still use commas like I was taught in school. You know, the old-fashioned way. It doesn't bother me that others don't.

 

[syzygy]

Does the word "because" need a comma before it? I get conflicting answers.

Example:
"I should stop drinking coffee because it makes my anxiety worse" vs. "I should stop drinking coffee, because it makes my anxiety worse."

The latter sounds so weird to me, but I've heard people say it needs a comma. I am confused.

 

[Japanfan]

I would not use a comma before 'because', @syzygy. I'm an editor. I might say 'This is because. . .

I can see that some people might, however, given that some pause before saying 'because'.

 

[overedge]

@syzygy It depends on how you want the sentence to "sound". Both ways are correct, but if you want to emphasize why you stopped drinking coffee - rather than just conveying that you stopped drinking coffee - the pause that the comma creates draws more attention to the second part of the sentence.

 

[Prancer]

Does the word "because" need a comma before it?

Generally, no.

Most of the time, you should not use a comma before because when it connects two clauses in a sentence. Because is a subordinating conjunction, which means that it connects a subordinate clause to an independent clause; good style dictates that there should be no comma between these two clauses. An exception can and should be made when the lack of a comma would cause ambiguity.

Now here:

I heard Marylou got fired because Bob was gossiping in my dad’s store.

Was Marylou fired because Bob was gossiping or was Marylou fired and you know this because Bob was gossiping about it? A comma supposedly clarifies the meaning, although I would rephrase the entire sentence because (heh) I don't think the comma does enough to clarify meaning.

Example:
"I should stop drinking coffee because it makes my anxiety worse" vs. "I should stop drinking coffee, because it makes my anxiety worse."

I would not put a comma in that sentence because (heh) the meaning is clear, although "it" is rather ambiguous. I would rephrase to "the caffeine makes my anxiety worse."

Some sources say you should always use a comma before because if the sentence begins with a negative, as the meaning is often unclear: “Dementia can’t be ignored by the larger community because individuals with the disease cannot manage independently." Oh, but dementia can be ignored for other reasons? In this case, a comma would clarify meaning.

 

[syzygy]

Thanks everyone that's what I thought!

@Prancer @overedge @Japanfan

 

[Jenny]

In addition to commas before verbs I'm also seeing a rash of commas after titles and before names, so:

A new cookbook by Chef, Jamie Oliver is now available.
President, Joe Smith addressed shareholders.

Sometimes there's an additional comma after the name too, which sometimes works (although is cumbersome IMO) as in:

X Corporation President, Joe Smith, addressed shareholders.

But other times doesn't work at all:

A new cookbook by Chef, Jamie Oliver, is now available.

 

[taf2002]

In addition to commas before verbs I'm also seeing a rash of commas after titles and before names, so:

A new cookbook by Chef, Jamie Oliver is now available.
President, Joe Smith addressed shareholders.

Sometimes there's an additional comma after the name too, which sometimes works (although is cumbersome IMO) as in:

X Corporation President, Joe Smith, addressed shareholders.

But other times doesn't work at all:

A new cookbook by Chef, Jamie Oliver, is now available.

These examples are all incorrect based on how I was taught. Think of titles like honorifics. Would you put commas around Mr, John Doe? Add the to your sentence, add a 2nd comma, & they become correct:

A new cookbook by the Chef, Jamie Oliver, is now available.
The President, Joe Smith, addressed shareholders.

Without the: X Corporation President Joe Smith addressed shareholders.
A new cookbook by Chef Jamie Oliver is now available.

 

[Japanfan]

Back to probably my first post in the original thread - apostrophes anywhere there is an s. The "Appraisal's First" sign at a busy intersection has been gone for years. Obviously, I still remember it.

Reminds me of dates written as '1950's'.

 

[Japanfan]

Everyday vs. every day. Apart vs. a part. Commas strewn randomly.

I've given up on who vs. whom argument with teens. I'm not giving up on possessives.

Bob goes jogging every day.

Jogging is an everyday routine for Bob.

 

[Susan1]

Virtual slap to everyone on FB who writes "I seen". I want to reply with SAW SAW SAW SAW.

I had to get that off my chest after seeing, for the 100th time, the commercial for Midwest Vein and Laser, where the woman says "It's the best thing I've ever did for myself", and I always yell "DONE DONE DONE" at the t.v.

 

[barbk]

Virtual slap to everyone on FB who writes "I seen". I want to reply with SAW SAW SAW SAW.

I had to get that off my chest after seeing, for the 100th time, the commercial for Midwest Vein and Laser, where the woman says "It's the best thing I've ever did for myself", and I always yell "DONE DONE DONE" at the t.v.

I'm done with that! How do you feel about "payed"? I am seeing that more often than paid.