"Harley & Katya" documentary

[Judy]

I’m unable to watch the trailer from Canada but read up on their story. Omg.

 

[Frau Muller]

I am guessing that the story behind finding, bringing and training the Russian-born, current Australian JGP Pairs champion, Moscow-born 16-yr-old Anastasia Golubeva, is very different. I rewatched the 2022 JrGP Pairs event this morning, then read the detailed trailer of the “Harley and Katya” film…and became nauseated. Enough said.

 

[Willin]

I would also add that it's an uphill battle for volunteers with full time day jobs to push against the forces of inertia and resistance to change, even where they want to apply the same due diligence as they do in their full time professions.

It seems like in even the bigger feds like USFS almost everyone is a volunteer or retired, and they actively expect everyone else to be that way. Even if you are an expert you have no voice if you're not willing or able to make time. One of the biggest things I've found with USFS is the shock and confusion at them not finding volunteers or judges - meanwhile they make it impossible for anyone with a job to be a judge, and very difficult for anyone with a job to volunteer for stuff like competition organization. And if you don't hold one of those positions you have no power.



Training your whole youth in a community that gives you no job prospects seems very normal in Russia, and that's why its skaters succeed. A lot of US and Japanese/Korean skaters do the same, but many have things outside of skating or plans for what to do after. It seems like Katya was uniquely isolated even compared to other skaters: thousands of miles from home and the few family she had left, in a country whose language she didn't speak well and whose culture she wasn't familiar with, with little training or prospects outside of skating... I always wondered about that, but now I wonder more how right it was, especially given that more and more Russian skaters are leaving their country in hopes of a success story.

 

[Aussie Willy]

Training your whole youth in a community that gives you no job prospects seems very normal in Russia, and that's why its skaters succeed. A lot of US and Japanese/Korean skaters do the same, but many have things outside of skating or plans for what to do after. It seems like Katya was uniquely isolated even compared to other skaters: thousands of miles from home and the few family she had left, in a country whose language she didn't speak well and whose culture she wasn't familiar with, with little training or prospects outside of skating... I always wondered about that, but now I wonder more how right it was, especially given that more and more Russian skaters are leaving their country in hopes of a success story.

I think the cultural aspects around Katya are:

• It was about having a pairs team that potentially would be successful to exclusion of all else
• There was no consideration of life outside of skating - skating was the life and there is no experience outside of that
• Money - no money, no income
• Lack of self-sufficiency so there was a total dependency of those around them, mainly the coaches
• Coach investment in the team which was probably not the healthiest relationship
• For Katya particularly a total lack of a support network (her own family and friends, mental health and wellbeing support)

 

[Immortelle]

Given she wasn’t getting on with the Pachins, it would have been incredibly difficult for her to have any real outlet for her feelings. She lived with them, away from her mother and didn’t have enough English to be independent. I can imagine she would have felt so trapped.

 

[kwanfan1818]

It is sad that she couldn't find a Russian community where she lived and trained, people who had gone through the same language and cultural challenges, and with whom she could be comfortable, be supported out of the rink, and not be a commodity to them.

 

[Amy L]

I just hope Golubeva and Harley's new partner are being taken care of better. I don't know anything about them, and I know Katya had a lot of personal tragedy even before going to Australia, but Golubeva and Chernyshova are in their mid-teens too.

 

[Willin]

Actually, I wonder how many Russian skaters are under stress like Katya's in a need to succeed sense?

We know none come from poverty per se, but we also know that a fair amount of them come from means well below that of many North American, Japanese, Korean, and Western European skaters. Even among the Eteri girls there's only a few rumored to come from a wealthy upbringing. Since training in Russia is funded past a certain point - and that funding includes school - they don't have to be as rich. The stakes in Russia are also much higher: if you win it gives you connections that normal people can only dream of, free cars, thousands in cash prizes/show contacts/endorsement deals/tv gigs, admission to highly exclusive universities, good jobs you wouldn't have otherwise gotten...

We see how parents torment their kids in the US to get them into the NFL/NBA/NHL (watch Trophy Kids), but there are some protections and backups in place (college scholarships, laws to prevent parents from exploiting thei kids for earnings, a minimum age for pro leagues, etc). I can't imagine what it's like in Russia. If you don't win, your prospects are pretty dim: I doubt their education is anywhere near good enough to get a good job/school without the winning. At least at places like Eteri's where they're training 6-8 hours/day.

 

[Amy L]

Actually, I wonder how many Russian skaters are under stress like Katya's in a need to succeed sense?

We know none come from poverty per se, but we also know that a fair amount of them come from means well below that of many North American, Japanese, Korean, and Western European skaters.

Yagudin and Urmanov came from families with struggling single moms. Plushenko's family wasn't well off at all. Zagitova's family was so poor she had trouble getting to the rink because they couldn't afford bus fare. Evgenia Tarasova moved to Moscow by herself at 14 to learn to skate pairs. Berezhnaya left her family (single mom raising 2 sons and 2 orphaned nephews & a niece) to train in Moscow at age ten because her hometown rink shut down. She was alone in a dormitory with other athletes from all sports and age ranges. And when she moved to St. Petersburg to start pairs, we all know how that next chapter goes... These are all situations that are much more rare in the West. Skating is just so freaking expensive! And it's not really a cultural norm to ship off your kids either.

 

[Aussie Willy]

I just hope Golubeva and Harley's new partner are being taken care of better. I don't know anything about them, and I know Katya had a lot of personal tragedy even before going to Australia, but Golubeva and Chernyshova are in their mid-teens too.

Hektor seems to be pretty sensible and a nice person. I have communicated with him on his Insta related to ISA stuff.

 

[Orm Irian]

Hektor seems to be pretty sensible and a nice person. I have communicated with him on his Insta related to ISA stuff.

I seem to recall that he also speaks some Russian? If that's correct, it will be a big help for them both.

 

[Bunny Hop]

I am guessing that the story behind finding, bringing and training the Russian-born, current Australian JGP Pairs champion, Moscow-born 16-yr-old Anastasia Golubeva, is very different.

I'm not sure it's that different. But I hope the ending will be, and there's at least a small chance the documentary will help remind people of recent history and not let it repeat.

 

[Frau Muller]

I'm not sure it's that different. But I hope the ending will be, and there's at least a small chance the documentary will help remind people of recent history and not let it repeat.

Yeah, that is my hope. Smile on the face of Golubeva…on ice, the Kiss&Cry, etc.

 

[Amy L]

I finally watched it thanks to my VPN.

Just a stylistic note: the idea to switch the names from Cyrillic to English everytime someone was introduced would have been even cooler looking if they actually had the names in Russian (like the TV show The Americans did) instead of just random nonsense letters that looked like the English equivalent. Maybe it just annoyed me because I know Russian, but the names are translatable and they clearly hired translators for the documentary, so they could have just done it for real, ya know?

Most importantly, I'm devastated over Katya's loss all over again. I felt so bad for her. She was a teenage girl immensely suffering from her dad's death. This girl, still in mourning, with burgeoning alcoholism, just gets shipped off to Australia with no plans to take care of her. Harley was so young as well! Their coaches had no clue what they were doing either, they used this girl like an experiment. The Australian fed and the Olympic Fed didn't know what was going on, they never had the fast (astronomical!) rise of a skater like that. I always thought that Harley was a big fish in a small pond and was initially glad that he found such a good partner like Katya. But the doc kind of showed how the media just treated her as an extension of Harley. He needed a girl to lift and throw. She can't speak English? That's fine, Harley can speak English. It was like he was expected to take care of her all on his own and babysit her for the sake of the partnership.

She should have never lived with her coaches, a teenage girl needs her own space and doesn't need to spend every waking hour with people who are basically her bosses. The Pachins were also her only way to communicate. It must have been so lonely! Andrei acted like a petulant child when they left for Canada, but I understand that he'd have hurt feelings. Since the Pachins wouldn't take part of the documentary, who knows how they really feel about what happened. If Katya could have been provided with a better place to live and access to interpreters who were an unbiased third party, things could have gone better overall. But we'll just never know.

I think most people cared and were concerned about Katya, but they had no clue how to help. I hope, so so so so much, that there are better services available for Chernyshova and Golubeva now.

 

[coppertop1]

I haven't seen the documentary but from what is being said, it seems like the adults in charge failed Katya horriby

 

[Perky Shae Lynn]

Horrible news out of Ontario. An 18 year old Russian hockey player fell to his death from a highrise... Not the time nor the place to speculate but goodness.

 

[Sylvia]

Re-posting here for anyone who wants to watch on Netflix:

The Australian documentary about Harley and Katya is now on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/au/title/81716867?s=i&trkid=260108134&vlang=en&clip=81718166

ETA what @peibeck & @manhn wrote in a thread in OTBT:

Not a series, but the documentary "Harley and Katya" about the Australian pair skating team is on Netflix. Definitely not upbeat: a reminder of how brutal this sport we love can really be, beneath the rhinestones and snarky commentary.

I just watched it too. I knew nothing about them. I was even at that Skate America in Vegas and I don’t remember that free program whatsoever. So sad.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1284693584810332160

 

[4rkidz]

I watched this today with my daughter on Netflix, it was so sad. The poor kid, only hope lessons were learned. My daughter left at age 18 to represent another country, one of the athletes there was 14 when she moved to the national training centre. She also had a sad life post Olympics. Happens in many sports, many countries.

 

[Judy]

I am about to start watching it on Cdn Netflix. I will post thoughts afterwards.

 

[Judy]

Very sad and very tragic. I just finished watching. They really were a very good team union everythingg started to happen but a person is more important than a sport

 

[Plusdinfo]

Thank you for sharing the Netflix link. I learned quite a bit from the film.

 

[Spikefan]

Just finished this, complete gut punch. I find myself less interested in the sport since the 2022 Olympics and this is just another thing.

 

[Judy]

Just finished this, complete gut punch. I find myself less interested in the sport since the 2022 Olympics and this is just another thing.

Yeah same here kinda. Not the skaters fault or anything. I had a really tough time watching what happened in the women’s final but I’ve never spoken about it .

 

[Hedwig]

Yeah same here kinda. Not the skaters fault or anything. I had a really tough time watching what happened in the women’s final but I’ve never spoken about it .

that was rough and nearly killed my love for the sport.

But since the Russians are not competing anymore, the competition is so much more joyful and wholesome. Give it a try again. I found my love for skating again now that the Russian girls are gone!

 

[Lara111]

What Nina Moser said is just disgusting. I mean, for good results, athletes have to come from a family with problems. Katya, who was already traumatized by the death of her father, was told that sport was the only way out for her in life. What was she supposed to think about when things didn't work out? And when she was told that she would no longer be able to skate?
Yes, sport is a social lift for many. But this is not the only way in life. Children's and junior sports should not be focused on quads, but on a healthy attitude towards sports.
And it disgusts me to read many comments about the Grand Prix final in pairs. Especially in juniors. How can you call them mediocre losers and belittle their talents simply because someone does not like the level of their skating. Are all the achievements at the cost of injuries really worth it? Even when it's kids?
Athletes are people, not machines that can be thrown away when they break.

Unfortunately in some countries sport is the only way out. There are not many opportunities especially for young adults who gave their all life to sport and have not achieved top top results. That all they can do usually.

 

[Judy]

that was rough and nearly killed my love for the sport.

But since the Russians are not competing anymore, the competition is so much more joyful and wholesome. Give it a try again. I found my love for skating again now that the Russian girls are gone!

Yeah it was heartbreaking and horrifying at the same time. The Russian girls being used like that. Also really sadfor skaters who don’t (hopefully can’t) dope that we’re being bypassed. These girls had doped jumps/excessive training and nothing else in their programs. Judges/ISU kinda suck.

 

[fan]

To me it seemed as if everyone was passing the buck - saying that someone else was responsible for katya’s challenges and eventual death. And that’s a sorry comment on both our society and our sport

 

[hanca]

To me it seemed as if everyone was passing the buck - saying that someone else was responsible for katya’s challenges and eventual death. And that’s a sorry comment on both our society and our sport

It seemed to me that Windsor’s attitude was not particularly helpful either. The things he was saying in the documentary, that completely put me off him. For example, he said “I think the language barrier helped us a little, especially in the first year. When we get too angry at each other, it stopped us from being too verbal.” So he has a 15 or 16 year old girl, completely isolated, her only means of communicating with her surroundings are through Russian coaches who can speak both Russian and English, and he doesn’t see that as a problem, he sees it as a positive because at least they can’t argue? WTF! He also couldn’t really understand why it would be a problem for Katya to live with her coaches who spend every training screaming at them. Him telling his sister that Katya is constantly angry…who wouldn’t be? Windsor came across as a selfish, self centred, arrogant prick.

 

[MacMadame]

It seemed to me that Windsor’s attitude was not particularly helpful either. The things he was saying in the documentary, that completely put me off him. For example, he said “I think the language barrier helped us a little, especially in the first year. When we get too angry at each other, it stopped us from being too verbal.” So he has a 15 or 16 year old girl, completely isolated, her only means of communicating with her surroundings are through Russian coaches who can speak both Russian and English, and he doesn’t see that as a problem, he sees it as a positive because at least they can’t argue? WTF! He also couldn’t really understand why it would be a problem for Katya to live with her coaches who spend every training screaming at them. Him telling his sister that Katya is constantly angry…who wouldn’t be? Windsor came across as a selfish, self centred, arrogant prick.

He was pretty young when he said those things though. And his parents did set him straight. (I liked his parents a lot from this.)

I have other issues with him but not that. Today's Harley seemed to understand more. He talked about how the coach couldn't be a coach and a parent, for example.

 

[hanca]

He was pretty young when he said those things though. And his parents did set him straight. (I liked his parents a lot from this.)

I have other issues with him but not that. Today's Harley seemed to understand more. He talked about how the coach couldn't be a coach and a parent, for example.

He was four years older than her, so when she was 15-16, he was 19-20. He was legally an adult but he behaved like a selfish prick. And she died in 2020, so the documentary was done when he was at least 24. How can he say something so ridiculous (that it was a good thing that they couldn’t understand each other because at least they couldn’t argue) at the age of 24? Surely by then, considering that when it was filmed he already knew the outcome, he couldn’t be seriously thinking that it was a good thing?