ISU confirms more positive doping tests

Dobre

Well-Known Member
Messages
17,246
Oh, sigh. We really have nothing else to discuss; do we?

1. I have no idea what is going on within the larger picture. None of us do. We are waiting for information.
2. I think the fact that WADA is investigating and trying to gather further information is a good idea.
3. I think it's clear that athletes should stay away from this drug while that is happening.
4. I worry that this could turn out to be a very big deal. (Or that it might just feel like that because this is a very slow figure-skating news week, and we have nothing else to discuss). I also think if it does turn out to be a very big deal, it may be centered more upon athletes whose final results come down to thousandths of a second. Rather than on figure skaters. (Though, perhaps that is just my hope).
5. I find the formal responses from some of the people involved in Russian athletics to be disturbing.

6. I appreciate the honesty of some of the Russian athletes, who are volunteering information about their own experiences without being forced to do so. (It seems to me to be rather supportive of some of their peers, who may be feeling isolated and caught within a larger problem here).
7. I hate the idea of any athlete losing his or her entire career, for any reason--at least any reason short of endangering another human being.
8. I hate the idea of state-sponsored cheating within any country.
9. I hate the idea of cheating. Period.
10. I hate the idea of any athlete being caught within the immoral or uneducated actions of others.

11. I think Andrea Raducan should get her medal back, now that the substance which was in her system is no longer considered hazardous.
12. I am sure WADA is watching China. Their swim team certainly faced serious consequences in the past.
13. I am sure we are all well aware that cheating and drug use are wide-spread international problems. In Russia, the U.S., Canada, itty bitty countries with very little infrastructure & thriving drug industries, etc.
14. I live in a state where marijuana is now legal, and I do not have any reason to believe this decision was made with the best interests of the public welfare at heart. Or any reason to believe it would now be OK for American athletes to start using it.
15. I want to see Anna Karenina! I am totally bummed that after an extraordinary comeback from injury and a tough defense of a national title, my favorite current Russian dance team may not only lose the opportunity to add some much-needed dramatic versatility to the international dance field at Worlds, but may be facing a premature ending of their career.

16. I was every bit as bummed after Denkova & Staviski had to end their career due to his own VERY poor judgment.
17. I was a Tonya Harding fan growing up, and I learned then that my own judgment can not be trusted at all when it comes to analyzing the moral decisions of athletes.
18. I think Zhulin is having a really bad year. Between B&S being banned, the Turkish team being forced to leave, Nazarova & Nikitin being injured. (Don't suppose he would like to move back to the U.S. and help start up a senior skating branch at Wheaton Academy. His quirkier choreography seems like it would be so right for McNamara & Carpenter).
19. If B&S are really out, I wonder if another top Russian team might decide to transfer to Zhulin's rink.
20. I just can't focus very long on a serious topic without going right back to my let's-view-everything-by-how-it-will-impact-ice-dance filter.

Think I have said absolutely everything I could possibly contribute to this thread.

BRING ON JUNIOR WORLDS!
 
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Spun Silver

Well-Known Member
Messages
12,130
Re # 19, Zhulin already has Zahorski and Guerreiro and they are hoping to become the next top Russian team!

Re # 11, I didn't know that Ruducan's substance was de-banned, but I have never accepted her being stripped of her medal for stupid cold medicine. I would love for her to have it restored, even if it's 16+ years late.

Re #20, :D.

Great post, generally.
 

barbarafan

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,306
Oh, sigh. We really have nothing else to discuss; do we?

1. I have no idea what is going on within the larger picture. None of us do. We are waiting for information.
2. I think the fact that WADA is investigating and trying to gather further information is a good idea.
3. I think it's clear that athletes should stay away from this drug while that is happening.
4. I worry that this could turn out to be a very big deal. (Or that it might just feel like that because this is a very slow figure-skating news week, and we have nothing else to discuss). I also think if it does turn out to be a very big deal, it may be centered more upon athletes whose final results come down to thousandths of a second. Rather than on figure skaters. (Though, perhaps that is just my hope).
5. I find the formal responses from some of the people involved in Russian athletics to be disturbing.

6. I appreciate the honesty of some of the Russian athletes, who are volunteering information about their own experiences without being forced to do so. (It seems to me to be rather supportive of some of their peers, who may be feeling isolated and caught within a larger problem here).
7. I hate the idea of any athlete losing his or her entire career, for any reason--at least any reason short of endangering another human being.
8. I hate the idea of state-sponsored cheating within any country.
9. I hate the idea of cheating. Period.
10. I hate the idea of any athlete being caught within the immoral or uneducated actions of others.

11. I think Andrea Raducan should get her medal back, now that the substance which was in her system is no longer considered hazardous.
12. I am sure WADA is watching China. Their swim team certainly faced serious consequences in the past.
13. I am sure we are all well aware that cheating and drug use are wide-spread international problems. In Russia, the U.S., Canada, itty bitty countries with very little infrastructure & thriving drug industries, etc.
14. I live in a state where marijuana is now legal, and I do not have any reason to believe this decision was made with the best interests of the public welfare at heart. Or any reason to believe it would now be OK for American athletes to start using it.
15. I want to see Anna Karenina! I am totally bummed that after an extraordinary comeback from injury and a tough defense of a national title, my favorite current Russian dance team may not only lose the opportunity to add some much-needed dramatic versatility to the international dance field at Worlds, but may be facing a premature ending of their career.

16. I was every bit as bummed after Denkova & Staviski had to end their career due to his own VERY poor judgment.
17. I was a Tonya Harding fan growing up, and I learned then that my own judgment can not be trusted at all when it comes to analyzing the moral decisions of athletes.
18. I think Zhulin is having a really bad year. Between B&S being banned, the Turkish team being forced to leave, Nazarova & Nikitin being injured. (Don't suppose he would like to move back to the U.S. and help start up a senior skating branch at Wheaton Academy. His quirkier choreography seems like it would be so right for McNamara & Carpenter).
19. If B&S are really out, I wonder if another top Russian team might decide to transfer to Zhulin's rink.
20. I just can't focus very long on a serious topic without going right back to my lets-view-everything-by-how-it-will-impact-ice-dance filter.

Think I have said absolutely everything I could possibly contribute to this thread.

BRING ON JUNIOR WORLDS!


I did not realize Nazarova and Nikitin were injured...They are my favourite dance team. What happened to them? very sad
 

Vagabond

Well-Known Member
Messages
25,565
The best part of it is that the other videos from the competition suggest that there may not have been anyone in attendance who wasn't connected with the skaters, the organizers, or the ISU. But for that camera, the :argue: :drama: and :angryfire might have passed unreported.

:watch:
 

Dobre

Well-Known Member
Messages
17,246
I did not realize Nazarova and Nikitin were injured...They are my favourite dance team. What happened to them? very sad

Yes, the injury was announced before they were forced to pull out of Europeans. I think there might be more detail in the Kiss & Cry there under one of the Europeans threads. (Entries?)

ETA: Sylvia just confirmed that N&N are listed for Worlds. I'm quite happy about this.
 
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aftershocks

Banned Member
Messages
17,317
The best part of it is that the other videos from the competition suggest that there may not have been anyone in attendance who wasn't connected with the skaters, the organizers, or the ISU. But for that camera, the :argue: :drama: and :angryfire might have passed unreported.:watch:

I wanna know where the video of the actual FS is for some freakin' context. I only see a poor video image quality sp Tyrol Cup performance from J/C posted on Youtube. Maybe neither of them really wanted to be competing there this close to Boston Worlds?
 

Tinami Amori

Well-Known Member
Messages
20,156
Proof that drugs doesn't help you win medals. :rofl:
Heck..... i had no idea Meldonium is for sports... :D.... i thought it supposed to help your blood-flow to the brain for long business meetings and remembering massive amounts of information.... :D.. I was wondering when i first read the news "why do athletes are taking brain medicine".....
 

AYS

🌻
Messages
24,664
http://olympics.nbcsports.com/2016/03/14/wada-russia-doping/

Further fuel for the fire.

Also:
Every year you should have on your calendar, 1st of October, let’s look at the (banned) list to see what’s happening,” Howman said. “It’s not new to athletes, it’s not new to administrators, it’s not new to athlete advisers. This has been going on now for 13, 14 years.”
 

Willin

Well-Known Member
Messages
2,615
Scott had suggested in an open letter that WADA’s response to the Pound report in November was unsatisfactory.

“There are quite a number of mentions of other sports,” Howman acknowledged. “We know they collected a lot of information and we need to ask them whether any of it was substantial enough” to open an inquiry.

Hmm... so it sounds like they got the tip or at least had suspicions about other Russian sports outside of T&F in November, so further investigation and more scrutiny seem further justified in this case. It also seems they had more evidence that they didn't release in the report or use when considering Russia T&F's punishment. If anything, the results of the November report seem lenient if what that article is reporting is correct.
 

Cachoo

Well-Known Member
Messages
10,871
There are American athletes who cheat but not with the encouragement and help from the American government, unlike Russia. They even had government thugs in the doping lad in Sochi intimidating technicians to throw away samples.

This. As this story continues to unfold I find myself feeling badly for the athletes but disgusted with those in power who might actually encourage doping. With American athletes who dope I find myself feeling disgusted with them and them alone. The federation involved with sports in Russia needs to clean house.
 

LarrySK8

Well-Known Member
Messages
494
This may change up the tone of discussion and may seem like a non-sequitur, but I do not believe it is really.

I have been very harsh in my response to the WADA et al investigation results and the notices in the AP and Official Sports media regarding PEDs, abuse of medications, etc., particularly on the part of Russia - who indeed has been banned from international competition in a major Olympic sport - Track and Field. Now Figure Skating is involved. And Tennis. And Speed Skating. I am very cynical and to some, horrible about it.

However, my cynicism is not limited to the countries more recently involved. Throughout all of this, I have been reminded of and am wondering where all these regulators and bureaucrats of all these agencies were, particularly in the US, when there was obviously a need for them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Q3LST_EkA0

RIP

This skater was known to have been abusing dangerous drugs and later admitted to using during all types of huge events, including worlds, etc. It seems the system, coaches and people involved did nothing substantive to intervene.

My cynicism extends to all the sporting federations in all the sports. They turn a blind eye. WADA/USADA have solved nothing with having created a cat and mouse game in nearly every sport. They offer no solutions that have benefited anyone. There is disgrace and an overall sense that all sports are rigged or that athletes, coaches and countries cheat for medals and to win.

Sometimes, just sometimes, due to this culture, the athlete dies. If they survive, they are disgraced and swept under the rug by the federations, hopefully into obscurity. While my cynicism is unwelcome here, it is present because I have not forgotten certain athletes in the history of sport who have succumbed and have been failed by the entire system.

Hypothetical - How would we respond to the above example (distant past) now if the skater was banned for a positive test? Would we realize that this actually could have saved the skater's life? Would we applaud WADA, USADA, etc.? Would we curse them and say, "Everyone does it!" Would we rationalize and try to make sense of it? I do not know.

I know I would say to WADA/USFS/USADA/USOC/ISU/IOC, "Where WERE YOU?" "WHY SHOULD THE WORLD TRUST YOU?????" Which is the same attitude I have toward athletes, sporting federations, coaches and doctors who cheat. Anger. Disappointment. Cynicism.

And actually, I fear for the lives of the athletes. I believe this is what drives my deep feelings on this matter.
 

Xela M

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,827
This may change up the tone of discussion and may seem like a non-sequitur, but I do not believe it is really.

I have been very harsh in my response to the WADA et al investigation results and the notices in the AP and Official Sports media regarding PEDs, abuse of medications, etc., particularly on the part of Russia - who indeed has been banned from international competition in a major Olympic sport - Track and Field. Now Figure Skating is involved. And Tennis. And Speed Skating. I am very cynical and to some, horrible about it.

However, my cynicism is not limited to the countries more recently involved. Throughout all of this, I have been reminded of and am wondering where all these regulators and bureaucrats of all these agencies were, particularly in the US, when there was obviously a need for them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Q3LST_EkA0

RIP

This skater was known to have been abusing dangerous drugs and later admitted to using during all types of huge events, including worlds, etc. It seems the system, coaches and people involved did nothing substantive to intervene.

My cynicism extends to all the sporting federations in all the sports. They turn a blind eye. WADA/USADA have solved nothing with having created a cat and mouse game in nearly every sport. They offer no solutions that have benefited anyone. There is disgrace and an overall sense that all sports are rigged or that athletes, coaches and countries cheat for medals and to win.

Sometimes, just sometimes, due to this culture, the athlete dies. If they survive, they are disgraced and swept under the rug by the federations, hopefully into obscurity. While my cynicism is unwelcome here, it is present because I have not forgotten certain athletes in the history of sport who have succumbed and have been failed by the entire system.

Hypothetical - How would we respond to the above example (distant past) now if the skater was banned for a positive test? Would we realize that this actually could have saved the skater's life? Would we applaud WADA, USADA, etc.? Would we curse them and say, "Everyone does it!" Would we rationalize and try to make sense of it? I do not know.

I know I would say to WADA/USFS/USADA/USOC/ISU/IOC, "Where WERE YOU?" "WHY SHOULD THE WORLD TRUST YOU?????" Which is the same attitude I have toward athletes, sporting federations, coaches and doctors who cheat. Anger. Disappointment. Cynicism.

And actually, I fear for the lives of the athletes. I believe this is what drives my deep feelings on this matter.

To use Christopher Bowman as an example of someone who died because of PEDs is such a distortion of the truth it's not even worthy of a discussion. No, WADA would not have been able to save his life.
 

BittyBug

Disgusted
Messages
26,741
Seriously. Bowman wasn't drugging to enhance his performance; his drug use impeded his performance.

Chris had a substance abuse problem, and I don't think getting DQ'd for a failed test would have in any way changed his course.

Chris had charisma and talent in spades, and it's sad that he was never able to fully capitalize on his natural gifts. It's even sadder that his life was cut short by his addiction issues, but I don't see the correlation between his tragic story and WADA.
 

VGThuy

Well-Known Member
Messages
41,023
Isn't that what a good defense does? Find the approach that works best and goes with it?

Not really. Good defenses should work together to promote a common theme. Not put out all of the approaches, no matter how remote and even if some contradict one another, with the hope that something sticks. When one fails, put out another, oh that didn't work, let's put out this one...that just hurts the credibility, IMO. Of course, someone said they were different people putting out different defenses, but I still maintain it hurts the defense overall as it seems the test results are coming from the same sort of drug tests being administered. With all the wildly different defenses proffered, it just makes this whole thing look questionable overall. Also, my comment was actually more directed to posters who were going from one thing to the next because they didn't like that it was Russian athletes that seem to be getting hurt the most out of this. So I was lead to believe they were just finding anything to support their preferred athletes/nation or don't like the seemingly Western witch hunt which is related to their love of Russia.
 
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dinakt

Well-Known Member
Messages
6,920
I think it is fair to say Russians themselves are baffled as why meldonium has been detected in so many athletes; and I see no reason to doubt their uncertainty. Individual belief, that it will not show up in tests after a short period promised in instructions (24 hours?); not being aware of new rules; doctors' negligence; wrong packaging/thieving by somebody responsible for distributing the drugs for athletes; lack of research into long-term meldonium use and whether it stays in a body longer if used often- I've read all these versions. Everybody is trying to explain it differently, and it tells me it is likely nobody really knows yet.
 

Xela M

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,827
Putin weighs in. He blames the Russian sports officials for the failed drug tests.

http://www.naharnet.com/stories/en/...ficials-for-not-warning-athletes-on-meldonium

Well, Putin is always full of surprises. When you think he is going to support Mutko, he goes right against him.

Mutko is from his "inner circle" so much so that when Medvedev stated on national television that Mutko would be held responsible over Russia's embarrassing showing at the Vancouver Olympics, Putin didn't allow Mutko to be touched. Now things must be getting desperate if he is throwing Mutko under the bus.
 

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