The Rise of the Trauma Essay in College Applications

[VGThuy]

For me, no disdain for wanting challenge. The disdain comes from the ubiquitous mentions of wanting to be "pushed." In the same vein, I see many smart, high-achieving students from well-off families who used Covid as the excuse for why they sat on their asses and did virtually nothing other than schoolwork during their freshman and sophomore years. Meanwhile, other kids got jobs, provided childcare for their families, worked on a self-initiated project, learned to play guitar, or found opportunities to volunteer despite Covid restrictions.

Gosh, no wonder there's trauma dumping in college essays with all this pressure to be a worker bee or have "incredible" hardships just to get into college. Of course, getting rid of the essay, personalized application process and replacing it with just hard numbers (despite the incredible lack of uniformity of grades and what we know about standardized test scores) isn't the answer either.

 

[barbk]

And how is this different from figure skaters who move rinks to be with other talented skaters who will push them? People who will show them techniques and work ethic that they can emulate and be inspired by?

What is so horrific about being "pushed"?

Being around other smart people (or talented skaters, who might also be quite smart ) is great. Needing other people to push you into taking on challenges is...weak. And, it is phrasing we see ALL THE TIME. I'm in the midst of college essay summer season and have seen it multiple times.

It is also the case that if you haven't done anything to push yourself in HS, it doesn't actually ring true. YMMV...but I hear similar feedback from admission officers when participating in professional development table reads of college applications.

 

[Japanfan]

But again not all of us are great writers and it is painful to write essays that convey what we really want to say.

Editing those essays is painful too. I've spent an hour per 100 words on some.

 

[Prancer]

And how is this different from figure skaters who move rinks to be with other talented skaters who will push them? People who will show them techniques and work ethic that they can emulate and be inspired by?

What is so horrific about being "pushed"?

I think it has to do with looking for students who are self-motivated, so colleges would look at what the students do on their own. If a student shows signs of pursuing their own interests either through or in addition to school AND the student wants to be pushed, that's a little different from students who have gotten good grades and done well on tests but never shown any initiative to do anything on their own.

Again, college is hard--not necessarily in terms of the academic work, but definitely in terms of the self-discipline and interest. People don't think of it that way, but you have to have some sort of drive to get through. Students who have shown an interest in learning--not just in doing well in school, but actual learning--are far more likely to stick it out and finish degrees.

I believe the disdain is for the boring generic sentences in the essay.

Ugh at the all essays written by Chat GPT that are probably floating around right now. I could die of boredom just thinking about it.

 

[barbk]

Gosh, no wonder there's trauma dumping in college essays with all this pressure to be a worker bee or have "incredible" hardships just to get into college. Of course, getting rid of the essay, personalized application process and replacing it with just hard numbers (despite the incredible lack of uniformity of grades and what we know about standardized test scores) isn't the answer either.

Not sure how you got this from what I wrote. Some student essays yield insights about the student that makes the student a lot more interesting to the college, and others are boring or rife with banal generalities. Most of the memorable (in a good way) essays I've read had nothing to do with trauma or amazing discoveries.

Most students admitted to highly selective colleges come from affluent families, are legacies, or are recruited athletes. In the Ivy League, around 15% of students are athletic admissions, though, of course, some of those are also highly academically talented students. Some are really, really not fabulous students...but they are nationally ranked athletes. We have one at an Ivy League college with a 23 ACT score and lots of B and C grades, but she was also nationally ranked in the top 5 in her primary event. At schools like Amherst, athletes are more than a quarter of the student population--and for most sports, participating in expensive traveling club teams or expensive specialized coaching at IMG or similar places is how you get noticed.

Getting into college isn't a challenge. That is a myth. The vast majority of colleges in the US accept a high percentage of students. It is a different story when we're talking about the 50 most selective colleges in the country. When you have many students with very high grades and test scores, essays and recommendations are key differentiators. One of the public high schools near me typically has close to 30 students who qualify for National Merit status based on PSAT/SAT scores. Most of those students also have incredibly high GPAs, with loads of International Baccalaureate and AP classes and high test scores. Of those 30 students, we'll see about ten admitted to Ivy League, Stanford, Duke, MIT, CalTech, Williams, Pomona, or other super-selective colleges. The other 20, also outstanding students, don't gain those admissions, as we can see from the Naviance scattergrams. The biggest challenge is that too many students and parents believe they have failed if students don't get an offer to attend one of the "highly rejective" colleges. (Thanks to Akil Bello for originating that most helpful phrase.)

One of my goals is to help students and their parents move away from the myopic focus on this tiny number of colleges and explore the amazing opportunities at colleges that are more accessible and often more affordable.

 

[becca]

Not sure how you got this from what I wrote. Some student essays yield insights about the student that makes the student a lot more interesting to the college, and others are boring or rife with banal generalities. Most of the memorable (in a good way) essays I've read had nothing to do with trauma or amazing discoveries.

Most students admitted to highly selective colleges come from affluent families, are legacies, or are recruited athletes. In the Ivy League, around 15% of students are athletic admissions, though, of course, some of those are also highly academically talented students. Some are really, really not fabulous students...but they are nationally ranked athletes. We have one at an Ivy League college with a 23 ACT score and lots of B and C grades, but she was also nationally ranked in the top 5 in her primary event. At schools like Amherst, athletes are more than a quarter of the student population--and for most sports, participating in expensive traveling club teams or expensive specialized coaching at IMG or similar places is how you get noticed.

Getting into college isn't a challenge. That is a myth. The vast majority of colleges in the US accept a high percentage of students. It is a different story when we're talking about the 50 most selective colleges in the country. When you have many students with very high grades and test scores, essays and recommendations are key differentiators. One of the public high schools near me typically has close to 30 students who qualify for National Merit status based on PSAT/SAT scores. Most of those students also have incredibly high GPAs, with loads of International Baccalaureate and AP classes and high test scores. Of those 30 students, we'll see about ten admitted to Ivy League, Stanford, Duke, MIT, CalTech, Williams, Pomona, or other super-selective colleges. The other 20, also outstanding students, don't gain those admissions, as we can see from the Naviance scattergrams. The biggest challenge is that too many students and parents believe they have failed if students don't get an offer to attend one of the "highly rejective" colleges. (Thanks to Akil Bello for originating that most helpful phrase.)

One of my goals is to help students and their parents move away from the myopic focus on this tiny number of colleges and explore the amazing opportunities at colleges that are more accessible and often more affordable.

I actually agree that the kids should look at other opportunities and understand that they will still be successful.

One of my biggest life lessons was learning to focus on what you can control versus what you cannot.

You Control your own academic performance but do not control others decisions.

It’s truly freeing once you start shifting those perspectives

 

[Allskate]

I roll my eyes at the number of students longing for admission to highly selective universities who want an environment where they will be pushed out of their comfort zone. That's often followed by a Why-This-College essay that mentions how much they're looking forward to going to college with like-minded students.

Someone saying that they wanted to be pushed would have me question whether someone is able to push themselves. At top universities, the students want to push themselves. OTOH, I don't understand think I would necessarily look down on someone who said that they wanted to go to college with other people who enjoyed learning. That was me. I definitely felt out of place in my high school and very much wanted to find people in college who liked learning and didn't think it was uncool.

That there's this much distain would be good to know for kids who excel at in underfunded or weak schools and know it, who might have been among the few interested in books, science, theater in their schools and home towns, who may have been ostracized and/or bullied because of it, sometimes in their own families, and who do long to have peers in physical proximity, not just on special interest message boards, that are interested in the same thing and will push them. Or, heaven forbid, they think that they'll find other people like them who are intellectually curious at that school.

They could then take another approach and not be put in that pile.

ITA.

Not every rich kid is like student C.

Of course not. Most kids, rich or poor, do not have that degree of drive and discipline. But, the majority of the affluent students who get into top universities are like student C. Most kids with rich parents aren't getting into Harvard or other Ivy League schools. I think there is a stereotype of rich kids being like G.W. Bush and Donald Trump, who were not likely to be seriously considered for their Ivy League universities if not for their dads. But that's not true for the majority of the affluent students. Even the majority of the legacies are not getting in only because they are legacies, and there definitely are legacies that don't get in. At least, that seems to be the case today. The Supreme Court opinion and articles I've read certainly suggest that.

He might be the most successful-not because of wealth, but the work ethic despite his wealth. He seems focused on working for his successes rather than expecting them to fall into his path

I do think there are plenty of kids from wealthy families who work hard. But the wealth helps, even from a young age, and can make a difference between two very hard working and very smart kids. Wealth could be the difference between Student A and Student C getting into a college. And having wealthy parents could make a difference between what happens to students after they graduate, even if they graduate from the same college with comparable grades.

I see this in upper middle class parents that I know. (I'll bet there are even more benefits for the very wealthy.) Their kids unquestionably work extremely hard. They get tutoring even if they have great grades. They get enrichment classes (that they love) during the summer holidays. This starts at a young age.

I see this with my niece and her classmates. My niece really wanted to apply for a middle school program for gifted kids, and admission was largely dependent on an exam. Her mother initially was opposed to her applying and did not enroll my niece into the exam preparation class that a bunch of her classmates were taking. (Part of the reason I wanted her to apply was because I wanted to applaud her willingness to challenge herself and for her to learn to be okay with it if she was not successful. She is horribly afraid of failure, and that is not coming from her family.) My sister relented and let my niece take the test, though she did not enroll her in the test preparation class. My niece asked me to help her, and I looked at sample exams and tutored and prepared her, though I cut her off at times when I thought she was overdoing it. I think any kid who did not take the preparation class or have a family member like me was at a serious disadvantage. Most of her classmates who got in had taken the class.

She got in. Now, within the middle school's gifted math class there are different tiers, with the highest tier learning the most advanced math. Almost every kid in the highest tier is one of the kids who happens to be getting outside math tutoring (partly to prepare them to take exams for entry into selective high schools whose graduates disproportionately get great university entry test scores and go to the best universities). These kids aren't go to get into great universities just because their parents have money. These kids are very smart and work very hard. But, there are other kids who work just as hard and are just as smart who won't do as well.

 

[tony]

Back in 2004, when I applied to Ohio State, I was a first-generation college student and my family didn't know anything about anything with the process, the financial aid, the planning.. nothing, literally. It was the only school I applied to, and I had taken several 5.0-scale classes in high school (none AP at that time) with a very so-so GPA. My ACT (which is what Ohio schools required, not the SAT) was very good with nearly a perfect score in English or whatever the section was called at the time.

I remember the small essay they had us write was something about which fictional TV character you most related to or resembled something or other, and I chose Ross from Friends and made it as funny as I could. Maybe that set me apart, because I'm pretty sure I would've been a borderline student otherwise.

Now students at the University level are paying for people to write all of their essays and even smaller things like discussion posts and reflection papers and it's very obvious (words they've never heard of, "Indeed," starting every other sentence and other unusual phrasing for English speakers, etc.), and I'm sure high school kids easily know where to find said people, as well [if they aren't relying on Chat GPT which could be a whole bigger mess, if they bother to even read the final product].

 

[becca]

Someone saying that they wanted to be pushed would have me question whether someone is able to push themselves. At top universities, the students want to push themselves. OTOH, I don't understand think I would necessarily look down on someone who said that they wanted to go to college with other people who enjoyed learning. That was me. I definitely felt out of place in my high school and very much wanted to find people in college who liked learning and didn't think it was uncool.


ITA.


Of course not. Most kids, rich or poor, do not have that degree of drive and discipline. But, the majority of the affluent students who get into top universities are like student C. Most kids with rich parents aren't getting into Harvard or other Ivy League schools. I think there is a stereotype of rich kids being like G.W. Bush and Donald Trump, who were not likely to be seriously considered for their Ivy League universities if not for their dads. But that's not true for the majority of the affluent students. Even the majority of the legacies are not getting in only because they are legacies, and there definitely are legacies that don't get in. At least, that seems to be the case today. The Supreme Court opinion and articles I've read certainly suggest that.

I do think there are plenty of kids from wealthy families who work hard. But the wealth helps, even from a young age, and can make a difference between two very hard working and very smart kids. Wealth could be the difference between Student A and Student C getting into a college. And having wealthy parents could make a difference between what happens to students after they graduate, even if they graduate from the same college with comparable grades.

I see this in upper middle class parents that I know. (I'll bet there are even more benefits for the very wealthy.) Their kids unquestionably work extremely hard. They get tutoring even if they have great grades. They get enrichment classes (that they love) during the summer holidays. This starts at a young age.

I see this with my niece and her classmates. My niece really wanted to apply for a middle school program for gifted kids, and admission was largely dependent on an exam. Her mother initially was opposed to her applying and did not enroll my niece into the exam preparation class that a bunch of her classmates were taking. (Part of the reason I wanted her to apply was because I wanted to applaud her willingness to challenge herself and for her to learn to be okay with it if she was not successful. She is horribly afraid of failure, and that is not coming from her family.) My sister relented and let my niece take the test, though she did not enroll her in the test preparation class. My niece asked me to help her, and I looked at sample exams and tutored and prepared her, though I cut her off at times when I thought she was overdoing it. I think any kid who did not take the preparation class or have a family member like me was at a serious disadvantage. Most of her classmates who got in had taken the class.

She got in. Now, within the middle school's gifted math class there are different tiers, with the highest tier learning the most advanced math. Almost every kid in the highest tier is one of the kids who happens to be getting outside math tutoring (partly to prepare them to take exams for entry into selective high schools whose graduates disproportionately get great university entry test scores and go to the best universities). These kids aren't go to get into great universities just because their parents have money. These kids are very smart and work very hard. But, there are other kids who work just as hard and are just as smart who won't do as well.

Oh I absolutely agree with you Student C has huge leg up.

I would like to think not having all handed to you can help you though too.

I absolutely think we need to do more to help underprivileged kids get a leg up.

Some of it is family things to and values.

In my last year of college I dated a guy from rural Illinois who was talking about the lack of educational opportunities in rural Illinois.

And he was telling me how frustrating it was because every time you asked the local area to vote for more money to fund public education even a small amount folks would refuse.

Versus in Chicago wealthy suburbs folks would always vote to pay way more and more.

I actually think our property tax system is unfair and every child should have equal funding and access.

But your not going to change the fact that not every child grows up in a community that really pushes education or with parents that will push it

 

[Prancer]

Wealth could be the difference between Student A and Student C getting into a college.

It also makes a difference in expectations, which can work for you and against you.

Student C was always expected to aim for an Ivy and was on track for that pretty much from birth. Student A, however, was the first person in her family to go to college and that was her goal--to go to college. She didn't aim for any place in particular, just college. She thought she had to have straight As to get into college, so that's what she focused on.

Both Student B and Student D were identified as gifted early on and were expected to do great things. Student B started resisting immediately and just flatly refused to be "the gifted kid." Student D ran with it and was probably an utterly insufferable child; I expect he ran into something at some point that was actually difficult for him and it freaked him out. A lot of kids who are identified as gifted when young develop imposter syndrome and it doesn't take much to send them over the edge.

I remember the small essay they had us write was something about which fictional TV character you most related to or resembled something or other, and I chose Ross from Friends and made it as funny as I could. Maybe that set me apart, because I'm pretty sure I would've been a borderline student otherwise.

I have never done admissions, but I used to do placement essays, and I guarantee you that if you were entertaining, you earned some extra points. We used to set essays like that aside for others to read when the monotony got to be too much.

 

[becca]

It also makes a difference in expectations, which can work for you and against you.

Student C was always expected to aim for an Ivy and was on track for that pretty much from birth. Student A, however, was the first person in her family to go to college and that was her goal--to go to college. She didn't aim for any place in particular, just college. She thought she had to have straight As to get into college, so that's what she focused on.

Both Student B and Student D were identified as gifted early on and were expected to do great things. Student B started resisting immediately and just flatly refused to be "the gifted kid." Student D ran with it and was probably an utterly insufferable child; I expect he ran into something at some point that was actually difficult for him and it freaked him out. A lot of kids who are identified as gifted when young develop imposter syndrome and it doesn't take much to send them over the edge.


I have never done admissions, but I used to do placement essays, and I guarantee you that if you were entertaining, you earned some extra points. We used to set essays like that aside for others to read when the monotony got to be too much.

It is a Huge pressure to be expected to get in Ivy because no guarantees.

 

[Allskate]

I actually think our property tax system is unfair and every child should have equal funding and access.

ITA. Other countries fund schools differently.

But your not going to change the fact that not every child grows up in a community that really pushes education or with parents that will push it

I know, but it's sad.

It is a Huge pressure to be expected to get in Ivy because no guarantees.

It also makes a difference in expectations, which can work for you and against you.

Yes. Some of those expectations can come from family. But, some of them come from the kids themselves or from other kids around them. IMO, when kids are growing up, it's not a healthy thing to focus so much on particular schools (or even the grades) rather than on the education. I have a friend who agreed to let her son get a math tutor (in third grade!) just because she thought it would make him feel more confident being in a class with other kids who had tutors. My niece came home one day (in seventh grade) and said she wants to go to MIT. Neither her parents nor any other adult had ever mentioned MIT to her. Someone at school is obsessed with going to MIT, so now she is too. Realistically, even if she miraculously got into MIT, which is very unlikely, her parents would not pay for it as she is lucky enough to live near a top notch public university with excellent engineering and other STEM programs. I don't want her to think she's a failure if she doesn't go to MIT.

In seventh grade, my niece already has an unhealthy obsession with grades, as distinct from learning (which she also loves), and this is not coming from the grown-ups. One good thing about her parents not wanting her to go to a selective high school is that she won't be surrounded by hyper stressed-out kids who make her even more stressed out. On the other hand, hopefully there will be a sufficient number of kids (especially girls) at her public school who love learning and STEM for her not to feel like a freak for studying and for loving math and science. And hopefully there will be sufficient classes and guidance at her school so that she is able to do what is best for her when she graduates from high school.

Student D ran with it and was probably an utterly insufferable child; I expect he ran into something at some point that was actually difficult for him and it freaked him out. A lot of kids who are identified as gifted when young develop imposter syndrome and it doesn't take much to send them over the edge.

Yep. I think that might describe my 11 year-old nephew. My sister has been telling him since he was three (when she taught him to read) how very smart he is, and she insists that he is smarter than the teachers realize. Even though he is smart, I think he looks at his older sister and questions his own intelligence because he has been raised to believe that he should do the same things as her even though their talents and interests are different in a lot of ways and even though he is stronger at some things than she is. He has anxiety and sometimes freezes or freaks when he is given schoolwork that is challenging or not familiar to him. I have had discussions with him about the importance of learning rather than focusing on results. I just had yet another discussion with him (after he had a meltdown) about how important it is to get things wrong in order to learn and that he needs to get comfortable with being uncomfortable with new or challenging things.

 

[barbk]

Someone saying that they wanted to be pushed would have me question whether someone is able to push themselves. At top universities, the students want to push themselves. OTOH, I don't understand think I would necessarily look down on someone who said that they wanted to go to college with other people who enjoyed learning. That was me. I definitely felt out of place in my high school and very much wanted to find people in college who liked learning and didn't think it was uncool.

When students write about wanting environments with like-minded students, it is not usually referring to other students who love to learn. It is more often related to students wanting fellow students with a similar perspective, whether that is political, environmental, or cultural.

In my experience, the percentage of students with genuine intellectual curiosity is relatively small. I see a lot of students who are excellent students. They do high-quality work, participate actively, and are generally a pleasure to be around. Most of those kids are very, very focused on capturing every point possible in each class, and they put huge effort into that. That focus and determination will likely help them do well as they go through college and life, but it does not seem to reflect a genuine love of learning for the sake of learning, especially when points are not involved. I would call it "love of doing very well" rather than love of learning.

Some students who've demonstrated deep intellectual curiosity are not much motivated by external factors like grades. Some are, but perhaps not to the degree of some other students. When we talk about the Common App essay prompt that asks about a topic that makes you lose all track of time, they tell me fascinating stories with twists, turns, dead ends, and diversions that took them in entirely different directions. I have a blast with them.

 

[VGThuy]

Not sure how you got this from what I wrote. Some student essays yield insights about the student that makes the student a lot more interesting to the college, and others are boring or rife with banal generalities. Most of the memorable (in a good way) essays I've read had nothing to do with trauma or amazing discoveries.

Most students admitted to highly selective colleges come from affluent families, are legacies, or are recruited athletes. In the Ivy League, around 15% of students are athletic admissions, though, of course, some of those are also highly academically talented students. Some are really, really not fabulous students...but they are nationally ranked athletes. We have one at an Ivy League college with a 23 ACT score and lots of B and C grades, but she was also nationally ranked in the top 5 in her primary event. At schools like Amherst, athletes are more than a quarter of the student population--and for most sports, participating in expensive traveling club teams or expensive specialized coaching at IMG or similar places is how you get noticed.

Getting into college isn't a challenge. That is a myth. The vast majority of colleges in the US accept a high percentage of students. It is a different story when we're talking about the 50 most selective colleges in the country. When you have many students with very high grades and test scores, essays and recommendations are key differentiators. One of the public high schools near me typically has close to 30 students who qualify for National Merit status based on PSAT/SAT scores. Most of those students also have incredibly high GPAs, with loads of International Baccalaureate and AP classes and high test scores. Of those 30 students, we'll see about ten admitted to Ivy League, Stanford, Duke, MIT, CalTech, Williams, Pomona, or other super-selective colleges. The other 20, also outstanding students, don't gain those admissions, as we can see from the Naviance scattergrams. The biggest challenge is that too many students and parents believe they have failed if students don't get an offer to attend one of the "highly rejective" colleges. (Thanks to Akil Bello for originating that most helpful phrase.)

One of my goals is to help students and their parents move away from the myopic focus on this tiny number of colleges and explore the amazing opportunities at colleges that are more accessible and often more affordable.

I like the move away from trying to get into the most selective schools. However, what I was initially reacting to was what these selective schools are expecting these students to be and how applicants are truly looked at by those determining their futures. I guess I sensed a level of derision towards these teenagers.

 

[becca]

I like the move away from trying to get into the most selective schools. However, what I was initially reacting to was what these selective schools are expecting these students to be and how applicants are truly looked at by those determining their futures. I guess I sensed a level of derision towards these teenagers.

The thing is you can be successful wherever you go I want to a state school not even the flagship one. I knew a girl who went there who was fourth in her class of a very competitive large suburban school.

She was offered like scholarships aglore to attend a small state school.

I have no doubt she could have gone somewhere very selective.

She graduated in three years with a 4.0 in math. She was recruited by a top company early on in college by doing an internship. That company locked her down a year before she graduated.

She has had a very successful career.

Oh and zero debt for her.

It’s an understatement to say how intelligent this woman is. Anyone who met her could see it. She happily took the full ride.

 

[Prancer]

The thing is you can be successful wherever you go I want to a state school not even the flagship one.

Or even if you don't go at all. College is just one path.

 

[Theatregirl1122]

One thing about the 1st gen kids and the kids from less high achieving high schools is that sometimes their scores will come our lower, their essays won't be as good, etc, because they aren't paying someone to polish their essay, they aren't paying for SAT tutoring, etc. So I don't necessarily see an essay that is slightly less polished or sounds more like a kid wrote it as a downside. Or even a lower SAT score.

At my school, I've never met a single kid who has SAT tutoring. My best friend who went to school in the affluent area of the state was one of the top kids in her class, very hard working, very exceptional. And she still is. But her parents literally put her in SAT tutoring starting in 8th grade. That would never occur to my parents, even though there are a fair number of advanced degrees in my family, and certainly would not occur to the parents of my 1st gen kids.

With my kids, they usually write their essays (or a version of them) in English class. They get help and editing from their English teachers. Some of my kids have occasionally asked me or their guidance counselor as well. But they never have professional help.

But I'm not sure the SAT tutoring or professional polishing of essays or whatever makes you a better bet in college, either.

 

[PRlady]

I’m reading the same Forgotten Girls book that Prancer referenced above, set in rural Arkansas. The author describes how she ended up at Bryn Mawr and it was total serendipity but obviously it changed her life. My college app process was pretty hit or miss by current standards but I was in another universe there in suburban Philly, in a private religious school where everyone went to college.

 

[Prancer]

I’m reading the same Forgotten Girls book that Prancer referenced above, set in rural Arkansas. The author describes how she ended up at Bryn Mawr and it was total serendipity but obviously it changed her life.

It did, but there she is living in Clinton again. Funny how things work out.

 

[manhn]

I was listening to some random podcast where the podcaster was just randomly saying that her high school kids no longer have to take SATs. Is that true?

I just came back from a family wedding where I saw all my cousins and their kids who have all grown up so much. So many of my nieces and nephews not only in college (not a surprise) but so many in very selective schools across the US.

I try not to be that uncle that asks “Hey, how is school?” so I literally know nothing about their academic aptitude. We normally talk about things like movies and food and music and coffee. They all know that Uncle Manhn is bad with alcohol. So, I kinda thought to myself that they didn’t seem that intelligent! And what kinda trauma did they overcome?

 

[Vagabond]

I was listening to some random podcast where the podcaster was just randomly saying that her high school kids no longer have to take SATs. Is that true?

High schools have never required SAT's. Many colleges have required applicants to take them (or the ACT). Recently, however, some colleges have stopped requiring applicants to take them, and in some cases don't even consider them.

 

[tony]

High schools have never required SAT's. Many colleges have required applicants to take them (or the ACT). Recently, however, some colleges have stopped requiring applicants to take them, and in some cases don't even consider them.

The clarification is there why? I understood what was being asked- if high schoolers are still taking the SAT to get into college.

It was always the ACT in Ohio, but I think it’s not mandatory for Ohio universities now and IIRC a lot of Universities started looking into other criteria around the time COVID was wiping out in-person learning. However, upon quick reading, there does seem to be a time in recent Ohio history where the college entrance exam was mandatory there, and a requirement for graduation.

Ohio lawmakers pushing to make 11th grade ACT, SAT tests optional

Tucked into the state’s two-year budget bill passed last week by the Ohio House is a provision that allows 11th-grade students and their parents to decide whether to take college entrance exams.

www.cleveland.com

Tucked into the state’s two-year budget bill passed last week by the Ohio House is a provision that allows 11th-grade students and their parents to decide whether to take college entrance exams, which for years have been mandatory in public schools.

“Not all juniors want to take the ACT test,” he said. “You have a lot of juniors who will go in, in the first 10 minutes fill out all the circles and be done.”


The tests are a graduation requirement, and the Ohio Department of Education uses them as the college and career readiness assessment for school report cards.

So to your statement, it seems at the very least Ohio high schools did at one time require the ACT regardless of whether college was in the plans or not.

 

[jeffisjeff]

High schools have never required SAT's. Many colleges have required applicants to take them (or the ACT). Recently, however, some colleges have stopped requiring applicants to take them, and in some cases don't even consider them.

Well, actually, quite a few states use the SAT or ACT as part of their state-level standardized assessment. In those states, the test is required for high school graduation. Here is a list:

Is the ACT or SAT a Graduation Requirement? It Might Be In Your State - How About the ACT? - PrepMaven

Is the SAT a graduation requirement for your high school? How about the ACT? Which states require the SAT/ACT? We've got the most up to date answers.

prepmaven.com

 

[Prancer]

I try not to be that uncle that asks “Hey, how is school?”

You would have been my kids' favorite uncle, possibly favorite person. They always HATED that question and used to ask me why older people couldn't think of any other topic of conversation.

And what kinda trauma did they overcome?

With any luck, none.

 

[barbk]

I was listening to some random podcast where the podcaster was just randomly saying that her high school kids no longer have to take SATs. Is that true?

I just came back from a family wedding where I saw all my cousins and their kids who have all grown up so much. So many of my nieces and nephews not only in college (not a surprise) but so many in very selective schools across the US.

I try not to be that uncle that asks “Hey, how is school?” so I literally know nothing about their academic aptitude. We normally talk about things like movies and food and music and coffee. They all know that Uncle Manhn is bad with alcohol. So, I kinda thought to myself that they didn’t seem that intelligent! And what kinda trauma did they overcome?

Yup. Most colleges are now either test optional ("we'll consider them if you think that it will help your application") or test blind ("we don't consider ACT or SAT scores"). But some colleges--all Florida public colleges, some other colleges in the Southeast, Purdue, Georgetown and MIT require them. I'm sure there are others; that's just off the top of my head. Some colleges still use them for merit scholarship eligibility, and some state scholarship programs may also use them. But, if a college does not use test scores, they look more closely at other parts of the application, which puts more weight on those components.

Also, when a high school sends a transcript to a college, it doesn't go naked into the world. It is accompanied by the School Report, a 2-4 page document characterizing the school's population, types of courses offered, and (usually) average, median, or 25th-75th percentile ranges for ACT or SAT scores. Sometimes it also includes a breakdown of GPAs by decile or the school-wide results on AP exams. If it reports the top GPA in last year's senior class as 4.81, and the average GPA as 3.97, colleges will use that info to infer a student's relative decile in the senior class, even if the high school doesn't rank. Some of those items might have been less closely examined when everyone had a test score. <== This school report helps students from less advantaged high schools show their strengths. A student with well-educated parents, a 31 ACT score and scores of 2, 3, and 4 on AP exams isn't super impressive if coming from a strong suburban high school. A student coming from a very low-performing high school with an average ACT score of 19 who brings a 31 ACT and scores of 2, 3, and 4 on AP exams is likely viewed as having climbed mountains. Their recommendations are also likely to be wonderful.

 

[Matryeshka]

Off-topic, long-winded rant ahead. YOU WERE WARNED.

In Louisiana, we have the LEAP exams that students in public/charter schools must pass to graduate. There is, however, a work-around: if they cannot pass the LEAP, they can use the ACT or ACT WorkKeys in its place. A friend of mine's son did this--he's autistic and dyslexic and kept missing the LEAP English by a single point. But his ACT score was good enough to get into college, so the state accepted his English score in its stead.

The main reason I teach at a parochial school is that it does not require state testing or ACT or SAT. That being said, it's not that we don't put a high emphasis on scores for the ACT or SAT. We just don't teach to the test in core classes. But students at my school have all sorts of advantages I did not have.

1. We offer the ACT and SAT for free every year 9-12. I came from a lower-to-middle middle class family and my parents paid for me to take the ACT once...but if I wanted to take it again, I had to pay for it. A lot of my friends paid for it themselves, so they only took it once.

2. We didn't have tutors and the internet existed obviously in the late 90s but no one was using it for that, or at least no one we knew. I had no concept of the help that was out there and neither did my parents. My dad never finished college, and my mom did, but as an adult when I was in high school. Most of my friends did not have parents who even went to college much less graduated. The kids I teach now, I would say 90%+ have college degrees and at least 50%+ advanced degrees. They understand the value of a good ACT/SAT score.

3. We offer classes, for credit, in ACT/SAT. So even though these are parents who COULD hire a tutor, they don't have to. The school offers a class they take during the regular school day. Fall focuses on English/Reading and Spring on Math/Science/Graph reading. It's a HUGE advantage, especially for kids who don't test well. Some of the public schools in wealthier areas do this now, but my old high school unsurprisingly still does not. Both semesters also discuss essay writing and college application.

4. Just taking it at school in a class that's familiar where the proctor is your teacher is a bigger advantage than you think. When I took it, we had to go to ULL, the university. We had to find parking, find the building, find the classroom and stare at strangers and an unfamiliar proctor. My best friend in high school did not do well, and I think part of it was she was on edge. She was late because she couldn't find parking, and there was no one she knew in her testing room. If you have test anxiety to begin with, this pushes it through the roof. I proctor my students. I know who to give a gentle tap of reassurance on the shoulder. I know who needs a squeezy thing. I know who's going to have questions filling in their information. I know who's going to forget their pencils and/or calculator. I provide water and snacks for the breaks. It's less of a big deal because everything's familiar.

5. Our school has both academic advisors and counselors. The academic advisors only job is prepping seniors for college. She finds the most bizarre scholarships, like ones that only eight people apply for nationwide so your chances of getting it are pretty damn good. She works with parents and sets expectations. She works with teachers on writing recommendations. She edits essays or points them to a teacher who will edit their essays. We have college nights where parents and students come and she goes step-by-step through FAFSA and the colleges that most of our students go to--SLU, LSU, Mississippi State, Old Miss, Spring Hill, Milsaps, Alabama, La Tech, Tulane, Georgia Tech. We've had a few students interview at Ivys/Baby Ivys, and for those students, there's intensive one-on-one interview and writing prep.

I want to make it clear that I am so grateful and happy that my students have all of these fantastic opportunities. As much as I complain about them, I also want them to have every advantage. But I am equally furious that not every student has access to this. I had friends who missed college by one or two points on the ACT. Any of the above advantages could have pushed them in. If you get a 17 on the ACT, two points higher makes a difference. If you get a 28, two points higher could push you into the baby Ivys. How many kids from underperforming schools missed opportunities because of one or two points?

 

[overedge]

And then there's the students who have done all the clubs, volunteering, AP classes, etc but have gotten no joy or learning out of any of them, because they've been told that they "have" to do those things to get into a good college.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Baby Ivys

We called.ourselves "potted Ivys."

 

[MacMadame]

And then there's the students who have done all the clubs, volunteering, AP classes, etc but have gotten no joy or learning out of any of them, because they've been told that they "have" to do those things to get into a good college.

Or even if they do or could get some joy, they are SO STRESSED that it's hard to find joy in anything.

 

[VGThuy]

The thing is you can be successful wherever you go I want to a state school not even the flagship one. I knew a girl who went there who was fourth in her class of a very competitive large suburban school.

Just to be clear, I never argued people couldn't be successful if they only went to a state school or not even a flagship one. Nor did I ever argue people had to go to college to be financially successful and live fulfilling lives.