2nd worst Olympic figure skating decision ever

[bardtoob]

It was the scoring in every discipline that was a tragedy in Sochi, not Sotnikova.

Now a skater like Jason Brown can't get significantly better scores in PCS than another skater because the ISU Judges have maintained the lie that the scoring in Sochi was somehow related to how the system is supposed to be used despite pushing the scores to the near ceiling of the system. There are only three skaters that should have ever gotten above 9s, Chan, Brown, and Hanyu.

I like them, but Shoma and D10 are 8.75 skaters, not 9.10 skaters.

 

[julieann]

Plushenko didn’t make any mistakes on his jumps. What does it say when one Lean in the air can take make a quad triple irrelevant? I do blame the quad. If he wanted to win he wouldn’t have done one. That’s the strategy almost everyone else had in Vancouver! 4 quads in the short programs. I mean everyone knew not to do quads. That doing quads was dumb.

What were YOU watching?!? Of course he did, he receive a -0.36 for his 3A, that means the judges didn't think he did it very well If he had done well, he could've received a 1.20 and the gold, end of!

He actually had a lot of -1s. He only got the base value for his 3Lz+2T so at least three judges didn't think he was great on that element and none of them thought he deserved +GOE. There were a lot of places he could have stepped up Stop making excuses for him, his mistakes are his own!

And Plushenko didn't get level 4s on all his elements and he didn't place his harder jumps at the middle or end like Evan did. The base values between the top two were a difference of only 0.01. With PC being dead even, Evan out perform because Plushenko didn't deliver when it counted. Sad but true.

 

[caseyedwards]

What were YOU watching?!? Of course he did, he receive a -0.36 for his 3A, that means the judges didn't think he did it very well If he had done well, he could've received a 1.20 and the gold, end of!

He actually had a lot of -1s. He only got the base value for his 3Lz+2T so at least three judges didn't think he was great on that element and none of them thought he deserved +GOE. There were a lot of places he could have stepped up Stop making excuses for him, his mistakes are his own!

And Plushenko didn't get level 4s on all his elements and he didn't place his harder jumps at the middle or end like Evan did. The base values between the top two were a difference of only 0.01. With PC being dead even, Evan out perform because Plushenko didn't deliver when it counted. Sad but true.

I totally agree plushenkos mistakes are his own! He should have looked at the last two worlds and went to Vancouver with a program full of transitions choreography by Lori Nichol and doing no quads. He should have removed all quads and did what almost everyone else was doing if he wanted to win. The only answer is not doing one triple axel better. An answer is to do a 3/5 program with all triples and many complex transitions and choreography by Wilson or Nichol!
I don’t deny he leaned in the air on his triple axel and also a lutz! He had slight leans which some judges took off a point or just gave him base value.

Plus goe isn’t only about jump quality but transitions in an out of jump! Creative entries! He lacked creative entries for good goe too.

The whole program was an extreme cop disaster of one wrong decision after another! Why didnt he abandon all quads and focus on transitions into tirples! It was a huge mistake!

He got all level 4 spins and normal for the era level 3 steps. Level 3 steps was common even the best in steps got mostly level 3 steps. It was a great unique accomplishment to get level 4 steps but not spins so he got all level 4 spins.

He should have won though because plushenko went for the max in all areas! Jumps to quads, spins to level 4, great personality! It was the Total package but also all wrong for 2010.

Watching the performances actually became irrelevant to me be because quadless is worthless to me for Olympic champion now. It’s just being ultraconservative and that’s not respectable but if you wanted to win in that time it was madantory and smart. Doing quads was the dumbest thing a skater could do and that’s why Oda for one stopped doing all quads even though he was amazing at them!

 

[joubertelegant]

Yeah. That was politik. No way were TPTB going to allow NA to take all spots on an Ice Dance olympic podium.

I would given Faiella & Scali the bronze if anyone else. Domnina & Shabalin were the reigning World Champions, of course they would atleast medal unless they were downright horrible which they only were in the OD portion. I like Belbin & Agosto but their programs under Linichuk were ugh.

 

[olympic]

I would given Faiella & Scali the bronze if anyone else. Domnina & Shabalin were the reigning World Champions, of course they would atleast medal unless they were downright horrible which they only were in the OD portion. I like Belbin & Agosto but their programs under Linichuk were ugh.

I think B/A were robbed in ‘09 of the championship personally, D/S had been injured and were rocky. So, theoretically B/A could have gone into Vancouver in 2010 as world champs.

 

[caseyedwards]

I think B/A were robbed in ‘09 of the championship personally, D/S had been injured and were rocky. So, theoretically B/A could have gone into Vancouver in 2010 as world champs.

But then are davis and white held down and d/s still medal?

 

[olympic]

But then are davis and white held down and d/s still medal?

No. I think that it just may have given B/A a boost to medal, but not win. Then again, if as I suspect, TPTB wanted a Euro team on the olympic Ice Dance podium and avoid a full NA podium, there was nothing B/A could have done. V/M were strong and on home turf. The USFSA made it clear that they were already chucking B/A for D/W, and D/S were Russian and the top Euro team. Lots of politik behind them. I don't see a way actually for B/A to overcome any of that.

 

[butyrskafanatic]

I think if B&A are the reigning World Champions, Davis & White are now the team off the team. As already noted it wasnt going to be a NA sweep. The reigning World Champions are also ensured of a medal in ice dance no matter what, well maybe with a gigantic fall in the OD or FD they could miss but that is probably it. So Davis & White now have no way onto the podium and come 4th.

Domnina & Shabalin still medal. Belbin & Agosto either win silver or bronze now, most likely silver as being reigning World Champs who had already beaten D&S in 2009 they probably beat an even more weakened D&S with an awful OD at the Games. Most likely B&A. Actually as Domnina & Shabalin are no longer reigning World Champions and there is a good chance they now lose Europeans to the Italians as they very nearly did anyway, and they no longer have to medal as they are no longer reigning World Champs even if a non NA team has to medal, quite possibly the results of the Games even go now:

Gold- Virtue & Moir
Silver- Belbin & Agosto
Bronze- Italians
4th and 5th- Domnina and Shabalin, Davis & White

 

[barbarafan]

^Quelle surprise de @caseyedwards ...

Seriously, I would put Oksana over Nancy as 2nd worst decision ever. I usually think of that as the worst Olympic decision in terms of the Ladies event.

But, including all four events, Blumberg / Seibert getting dropped to 4th by a single, rogue judge was IMO the worst decision of all time. IIRC, the Italian judge self-corrected for '84 Worlds, defeating the reason she gave for dropping them in the first place in Sarajevo '84, that they weren't skating to 'dance' music, and B/S were back on the podium.

Interesting personal story. Back in 1991, I was in NYC and went to the Brooklyn Academy of Music to see an Opera singer. I was w/ a friend who introduced me to a man who turned out to be Michael Seibert who was w/ a male companion! I didn't get a chance to speak beyond exchanging pleasantries, but my friend said 'You know, he and his partner were robbed at the Olympics by the Italian judge!' He is not an FS fan, so I was kinda floored by the amount of knowledge he had about the event.

ETA - I can see that 2002 is still a sore spot for many, but if you are B/S fans, they did not lose the gold medal, and if you are S/P fans, they were not robbed but rather vindicated: The French judge admitted to wrongdoing and her marks were dropped from the final tally. So, for the vindication I don't see this as a worst ever situation

2002 was a year I was able to watch a bit and I was really OMG S/P were clean and it was a beautiful program (and I really liked them).When the problem with dirty judging was exposed I got my husband who does not skate or watch it to watch both programs and he said he understands the Russians were not clean but their skating...even with the mistake was far more superior and beautiful. The eye of the beholder.

 

[gk_891]

I would given Faiella & Scali the bronze if anyone else. Domnina & Shabalin were the reigning World Champions, of course they would atleast medal unless they were downright horrible which they only were in the OD portion. I like Belbin & Agosto but their programs under Linichuk were ugh.

Most programs under Linichuk are ugh. Most of Grishuk & Platov's worst programs were from thir Linichuk years. Krylova & Ovsiannikov possibly could've done better if they had had a better coach and choreographer as almost all of their free dances were disappointing in terms of their choreography and content. Lobacheva & Averbukh almost always put me to sleep. I will admit though that Linichuk and Karponosov did a better job with Denkova & Staviski than I thought they would've.

I know that I might very well be wrong about this but I've always thought of Linichuk & Karponosov as strict task-masters. What I mean by that is that their students don't necessarily have the best basics and the programs usually feature very open choreography (at least the free dances anyways) but they often show up to competitions looking very prepared, ready to compete, and they skate very well rehearsed programs.

Linichuk's students also typically skate very very aggressively to the point where they look like they're trying to plow through the music rather than phrase it properly. I mean look at Grishuk & Platov. They had some very engaging programs when they were Dubova's students and they were much better at phrasing the music back then. But when inner-politics within the Dubova camp pushed them out and they went to Linichuk, they started to become almost hyper-aggressive and Oksana's upper body movements started to become much more unruly.

 

[MAXSwagg]

It was the scoring in every discipline that was a tragedy in Sochi, not Sotnikova.

Now a skater like Jason Brown can't get significantly better scores in PCS than another skater because the ISU Judges have maintained the lie that the scoring in Sochi was somehow related to how the system is supposed to be used despite pushing the scores to the near ceiling of the system. There are only three skaters that should have ever gotten above 9s, Chan, Brown, and Hanyu.

I like them, but Shoma and D10 are 8.75 skaters, not 9.10 skaters.

The judges have completely f*cked the judging system.

 

[butyrskafanatic]

Linichuk & Karpanasov produce the same teams and programs they themselves displayed and were. Technically sound and strong, strong basics as well, and usually fast and agressive style of skating; but bland forgettable choreography without any discernable theme or concept (atleast not that is relateable to the audience), and choreography and packaging that always fails to make the best use of the skaters best talents.

 

[gk_891]

Linichuk & Karpanasov produce the same teams and programs they themselves displayed and were. Technically sound and strong, strong basics as well, and usually fast and agressive style of skating; but bland forgettable choreography without any discernable theme or concept (atleast not that is relateable to the audience), and choreography and packaging that always fails to make the best use of the skaters best talents.

It's been said here by others that Linichuk's students often skate programs that are aggressively banal and lacking any real subtext. And she doesn't seem to be subtlety very well either.

It was also mentioned by VietgrlTerifa a few years back that Linichuk's programs often seem like very good ideas on paper but come across as sort of bland and mediocre instead. In other words, Linichuk wants the audience to feel and experience the highs of her ideas but she doesn't seem to know how to put them together very well. G&P probably could've done an awesome rock'n'roll number but that free dance from 1994 was badly lacking in good solid choreography even though they sold it as best as they could. Another one is Krylova & Ovsiannikov's Carmen free dance from 98. Krylova was born to play Carmen but after a solid first section, that program basically stopped moving altogether and they started relying almost entirely on extreme facial expressions and mime-like body movements. It just came across as uncomfortably silly to my eyes. I have similar issues with K&O's jungle dance in 1999 as well in that it was a very good idea on paper but some of the lifts were flat-out ugly and there was way too much hand to hand and side by side skating in that program.

 

[caseyedwards]

No. I think that it just may have given B/A a boost to medal, but not win. Then again, if as I suspect, TPTB wanted a Euro team on the olympic Ice Dance podium and avoid a full NA podium, there was nothing B/A could have done. V/M were strong and on home turf. The USFSA made it clear that they were already chucking B/A for D/W, and D/S were Russian and the top Euro team. Lots of politik behind them. I don't see a way actually for B/A to overcome any of that.

This stinks! No way for b/a to stay afloat at all. Unfortunately!

I think if B&A are the reigning World Champions, Davis & White are now the team off the team. As already noted it wasnt going to be a NA sweep. The reigning World Champions are also ensured of a medal in ice dance no matter what, well maybe with a gigantic fall in the OD or FD they could miss but that is probably it. So Davis & White now have no way onto the podium and come 4th.

Domnina & Shabalin still medal. Belbin & Agosto either win silver or bronze now, most likely silver as being reigning World Champs who had already beaten D&S in 2009 they probably beat an even more weakened D&S with an awful OD at the Games. Most likely B&A. Actually as Domnina & Shabalin are no longer reigning World Champions and there is a good chance they now lose Europeans to the Italians as they very nearly did anyway, and they no longer have to medal as they are no longer reigning World Champs even if a non NA team has to medal, quite possibly the results of the Games even go now:

Gold- Virtue & Moir
Silver- Belbin & Agosto
Bronze- Italians
4th and 5th- Domnina and Shabalin, Davis & White

But if Europe is in such extreme chaos why not go with most recent euro world champs delobel and shoenfelder? Would’ve loved that!!

 

[butyrskafanatic]

Unfortunately being off the ice for most of the past 12 months through combination of injury and unplanned pregnancy proved too much for DelSchoes. They looked super rusty at the Games, much moreso than even Domnina & Shabalin. Even their CD looked super rough. It is a shame since had they not gotten injured I am sure they win the 2009 worlds and go into the Games as 2 time World Champs (then again they probably only won in 2008 since DomShabs missed with injury so it was sort of a trade off), and had it not been for the injury and pregnancy they probably would have had a great shot of winning or atleast silver in Vancouver.

 

[Loves_Shizuka]

-Kerrigan vs Baiul. Personally I think Kerrigan was overmarked and should have been off the podium in 4th place, but it seems a lot of others believe she was robbed of the gold so I guess I have to include this.

I think this is the first time I've ever heard anyone claim Nancy wuzgifted as opposed to wuzrobbed in 1994.

4th? behind Bonaly? Or ...Sato?

 

[Areski]

At 2009 four continents Chan easily beat lysacek even though Chan was quadless and lysacek was almost clean on every single element including a quad. Lysacek did not have a bad quad. The quad was better than triple axel. But doing quads was so dumb. He lost to Chan. You did not need to hope for mistakes doing a quadless program because all triple programs with great goe and in a 3/5 layout made quads meaningless in that Version of cop. The best way to maximize points was going quadless and getting tons of goe. That was the lesson of 2009 four continents and why lysacek never did a quad again in international competition. The whole thing about injury was false. It was PR. The attempt of a quad by lysacek at nationals was just pr. Plushenko had no tight landings. He leaned in air twice. There was no bad landings.


Plushenko didn’t make any mistakes on his jumps. What does it say when one Lean in the air can take make a quad triple irrelevant? I do blame the quad. If he wanted to win he wouldn’t have done one. That’s the strategy almost everyone else had in Vancouver! 4 quads in the short programs. I mean everyone knew not to do quads. That doing quads was dumb.

Quad toe loop value also was like 1.0 point lower than nowadays what is worth to mention. It was just less profitable.

 

[joubertelegant]

I think this is the first time I've ever heard anyone claim Nancy wuzgifted as opposed to wuzrobbed in 1994.

4th? behind Bonaly? Or ...Sato?

4th behind Chen, Sato, and maybe Bauil. I had Sato 5th or 6th in the short, but winning the long. I had Chen 2nd in the long. Kerrigan no higher than 3rd in the long.

 

[muffinplus]

Linichuk & Karpanasov produce the same teams and programs they themselves displayed and were. Technically sound and strong, strong basics as well, and usually fast and agressive style of skating; but bland forgettable choreography without any discernable theme or concept (atleast not that is relateable to the audience), and choreography and packaging that always fails to make the best use of the skaters best talents.

The only one I kind of liked was Lobacheva/Averbukh 2002 OD.

 

[ohashibiles]

4th behind Chen, Sato, and maybe Bauil. I had Sato 5th or 6th in the short, but winning the long. I had Chen 2nd in the long. Kerrigan no higher than 3rd in the long.

I would have had Kerrigan 5th in the LP behind Chen, Sato, Bonaly, and Baiul. If Witt had landed her triple loop and triple salchows cleanly I would have had behind her too since Witt deserved a 5.9 or 6.0 for artistry and Kerrigan a 5.6 or 5.7 for artistry.

 

[butyrskafanatic]

The only one I kind of liked was Lobacheva/Averbukh 2002 OD.

That was an awesome program and by FAR the best thing L&A ever did. Although still 2nd to Anissina & Peizerat's incredible OD that year.

 

[butyrskafanatic]

I think this is the first time I've ever heard anyone claim Nancy wuzgifted as opposed to wuzrobbed in 1994.

4th? behind Bonaly? Or ...Sato?

When you think about it Sato had far better spins, footwork, speed, stroking, and much better choreography than Nancy. Her jumps were probably lower quality but she landed 1 more clean triple too.

Chan had better spins, much better footwork, much better choreography, and more jump content too.

Bonaly even with the 2 lutz mistakes had 2 triple-triples and 6 triples.

Kerrigan was always overrated. At the 92 Games she probably deserved about 8th in the LP and took 3rd. I am no Baiul fan but truth is if Kerrigan couldnt beat her with the judges, she probably didnt deserve to beat even Baiul, since perennial held up queen Kerrigan of all people is the last one who would ever get robbed of anything.

 

[Areski]

When you think about it Sato had far better spins, footwork, speed, stroking, and much better choreography than Nancy. Her jumps were probably lower quality but she landed 1 more clean triple too.

Chan had better spins, much better footwork, much better choreography, and more jump content too.

Bonaly even with the 2 lutz mistakes had 2 triple-triples and 6 triples.

Kerrigan was always overrated. At the 92 Games she probably deserved about 8th in the LP and took 3rd. I am no Baiul fan but truth is if Kerrigan couldnt beat her with the judges, she probably didnt deserve to beat even Baiul, since perennial held up queen Kerrigan of all people is the last one who would ever get robbed of anything.

I agree ... Kerrigan was overrated looking back. Her 2nd mark (artistic impression) used to be overscored the most of them all. ''Pretty'' skater in terms of body positions / carriage but otherwise dull, kinda stiff and extremely predictable (often cheesy music /choreography).

Baiul even though so young in that time, skated with purpose, flair and musicality unlike Nancy.

 

[butyrskafanatic]

I agree ... Kerrigan was overrated looking back. Her 2nd mark (artistic impression) used to be overscored the most of them all.

Yes she was stiff and not even artistic yet commentators (and judges) raved about her supposably beautiful artistry, and it held her up to many medals when before her 93-94 season where she purposely trained like never before she rarely made it past 4 triples and programs filled with mistakes even in her better skates. Her signature spiral was an eyesore and wobbly looking to me. Her choreography was generally cheesetastic with her 94 Olympic season LP the worst of all. Her spins sucked, and she was slow and super inconsistent. I just never got the hype.

If anything her jumps (when landed) were the most impressive thing about her skating for me.

 

[joubertelegant]

Not even close to the worst decision.

Again I am trying to go by what the consensus opinions seem to be despite my own. Like for instance listing Kerrigan losing the gold in 94, which personally I had no problem with at all and found her held up as she often was, but most people were furious about it seems. I dont know what your opinion is but I cant recall sensing a public and skating fans and many skating experts being as angry about a result as Sotnikova's win over Kim and Sotnikova's win in general (keeping in mind there was also a strong opinion that not only Kim but Kostner as well, and in the LP Mao were clearly better), not even the SLC pairs one which resulted in a 2nd gold due to a judge coming out with a cheating claim. So my reference was based upon that.

 

[vesperholly]

It's not on the list but my worst is Ilinykh/Katsalapov over Pechalat/Bourzat for Sochi bronze.

GOE out of control: http://www.isuresults.com/results/owg2014/owg14_IceDance_FD_Scores.pdf

 

[butyrskafanatic]

It's not on the list but my worst is Ilinykh/Katsalapov over Pechalat/Bourzat for Sochi bronze.

GOE out of control: http://www.isuresults.com/results/owg2014/owg14_IceDance_FD_Scores.pdf

I agree they were overscored but IMO they did deserve their bronze. It was the best they ever skated. It was a rough break for the perennial hard luck kids Pechalat & Bourzat, but it doesnt mean it was an unfair result.

 

[lala]

What were YOU watching?!? Of course he did, he receive a -0.36 for his 3A, that means the judges didn't think he did it very well If he had done well, he could've received a 1.20 and the gold, end of!

He actually had a lot of -1s. He only got the base value for his 3Lz+2T so at least three judges didn't think he was great on that element and none of them thought he deserved +GOE. There were a lot of places he could have stepped up Stop making excuses for him, his mistakes are his own!

And Plushenko didn't get level 4s on all his elements and he didn't place his harder jumps at the middle or end like Evan did. The base values between the top two were a difference of only 0.01. With PC being dead even, Evan out perform because Plushenko didn't deliver when it counted. Sad but true.

If you watch the protocol you notice only two judges gave him almost all -GOEs. http://library.la84.org/6oic/OfficialReports/2010/Results/FS_Results_Book.pdf Do you have a bet who they were? Plus that is funny Evan beat Daisuke in PCS. You believe me they really didn't want to Plushenko's victory. Evan beat Plushenko with tech scores in FS.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbbfflDE4PE - Why did Plushenko miss the Vancouver gold medal?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQntaCIU5pg - Suspicious judges of Men's Figure Skating in Vancouver Olympic

It received a wiki page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadruple_jump_controversy

Before Vancouver the US media made from Plushenko an unartistic, uninspiring skater he became a jumper and many American started to repeat it . But they had no information about those facts he was the youngets male skater ever( 16) who received perfect score for his presentation. He had 75 6.0s while the COP was introduced most of them were presentation marks. No one even the "artistry" Yagudin comes close to him. And I'm sure even Kwan had not so many as him. You don't say me he received in Russia on local or national competition because majority of 6.0s were international competition marks.

 

[lala]

I totally agree plushenkos mistakes are his own! He should have looked at the last two worlds and went to Vancouver with a program full of transitions choreography by Lori Nichol and doing no quads. He should have removed all quads and did what almost everyone else was doing if he wanted to win. The only answer is not doing one triple axel better. An answer is to do a 3/5 program with all triples and many complex transitions and choreography by Wilson or Nichol!
I don’t deny he leaned in the air on his triple axel and also a lutz! He had slight leans which some judges took off a point or just gave him base value.

Plus goe isn’t only about jump quality but transitions in an out of jump! Creative entries! He lacked creative entries for good goe too.

The whole program was an extreme cop disaster of one wrong decision after another! Why didnt he abandon all quads and focus on transitions into tirples! It was a huge mistake!

He got all level 4 spins and normal for the era level 3 steps. Level 3 steps was common even the best in steps got mostly level 3 steps. It was a great unique accomplishment to get level 4 steps but not spins so he got all level 4 spins.

He should have won though because plushenko went for the max in all areas! Jumps to quads, spins to level 4, great personality! It was the Total package but also all wrong for 2010.

Watching the performances actually became irrelevant to me be because quadless is worthless to me for Olympic champion now. It’s just being ultraconservative and that’s not respectable but if you wanted to win in that time it was madantory and smart. Doing quads was the dumbest thing a skater could do and that’s why Oda for one stopped doing all quads even though he was amazing at them!

This is the reason why I respected Daisuke !

 

[skatingguy]

But Plushenko didn't skate that well in the free skate in Vancouver. The fact that he stood up some of those jumps is a testament to his athletic ability because some of them were so crooked.