Eteri Tutberidze Method

[briancoogaert]

IMO, the biggest problem is how judges mark her skaters. As long as judges give them +GOE and undeserved high PCS, Eteri will continue her methods.

 

[Natanielle825]

 

[tony]

I've been away from the board for a while, but I find the whole Eteri hate sometimes a bit confusing and there are a lot of revisionists that chime in with their own wild interpretations or comparisons to other (proven) situations.

Every time I start reading some comments, I think of an example like college Professors - the ones who are strict and make students actually learn tend to have the lower reviews and the ones who don't assign any homework and essentially go over all the exam answers in a review generally are the favorites. Why is it? Because people want to get through on as little effort as possible. And what ends up happening more often than not? They sail through some lower-level courses and then don't know anything when they get to the higher level and either struggle or fail out.

A part of me thinks that might be a little bit of what may happen with Eteri - she has young(er) students who maybe don't work to work as hard, switch to different coaches where the training techniques may be more simple or relaxed, and then they open their mouths about how terrible everything was. Evgenia never really said as much but I think her issue was that she was just young and bitter about Zagitova (based on the k&c at Olympics) and looking to get out of that situation. She isn't the first skater to go away from a coach and then decide to go back. As a different type of example, Joannie Rochette was dumped by Manon Perron after a fall 2004 disastrous local competition and then asked Perron if she could return a season later.

Admittedly, I haven't read every single translated article when it comes to Eteri, but I see a lot of speculation and assumptions every time the discussions turn to her. If someone, probably @Tinami Amori could lay out the actual quoted things here, it would be helpful.

 

[lala]

I've been away from the board for a while, but I find the whole Eteri hate sometimes a bit confusing and there are a lot of revisionists that chime in with their own wild interpretations or comparisons to other (proven) situations.

Every time I start reading some comments, I think of an example like college Professors - the ones who are strict and make students actually learn tend to have the lower reviews and the ones who don't assign any homework and essentially go over all the exam answers in a review generally are the favorites. Why is it? Because people want to get through on as little effort as possible. And what ends up happening more often than not? They sail through some lower-level courses and then don't know anything when they get to the higher level and either struggle or fail out.

A part of me thinks that might be a little bit of what may happen with Eteri - she has young(er) students who maybe don't work to work as hard, switch to different coaches where the training techniques may be more simple or relaxed, and then they open their mouths about how terrible everything was. Evgenia never really said as much but I think her issue was that she was just young and bitter about Zagitova (based on the k&c at Olympics) and looking to get out of that situation. She isn't the first skater to go away from a coach and then decide to go back. As a different type of example, Joannie Rochette was dumped by Manon Perron after a fall 2004 disastrous local competition and then asked Perron if she could return a season later.

Admittedly, I haven't read every single translated article when it comes to Eteri, but I see a lot of speculation and assumptions every time the discussions turn to her. If someone, probably @Tinami Amori could lay out the actual quoted things here, it would be helpful.

 

[Frau Muller]

https://www.instagram.com/p/CCXJLWbJYl_/

https://www.instagram.com/p/CCVWbDIp-5V/

https://www.instagram.com/p/CBniyVZJs9w/

https://www.instagram.com/p/B_xoq8pJCQD/

etc.....

.... plus, there is an old saying in Russia "smiling without a reason is a sign of stupidity".

Bravo, Tinami. Conversely, people outside of America often wonder why Americans (or some Asian cultures) must be “showing teeth” constantly. My Russian husband asked why I have to smile all the time, even in my passport photos. It’s a cultural thing.

 

[MacMadame]

You can't say that what Larry Nasser did was wrong but not what Eteri is doing. It's either all wrong or it's not.

It's only wrong if you think what she does is abuse.

 

[Natanielle825]

people outside of America often wonder why Americans (or some Asian cultures) must be “showing teeth” constantly. My Russian husband asked why I have to smile all the time, even in my passport photos. It’s a cultural thing.

Interesting, I didn't know that. I'll note that neither Evgenia or Alina ever showed this before the Olympics, nor Eteri's girls at the JGPF that year. I believe the pressure in that camp has been upped substantially since then is my point. And in Russia in general.

 

[lala]

I'm curious why only Eteri is in the target solely? She is working in team if she is an abuser then Davidov and Daniil are also..

 

[Tinami Amori]

A part of me thinks that might be a little bit of what may happen with Eteri - she has young(er) students who maybe don't work to work as hard, switch to different coaches where the training techniques may be more simple or relaxed, and then they open their mouths about how terrible everything was.

Evgenia never really said as much but I think her issue was that she was just young and bitter about Zagitova (based on the k&c at Olympics) and looking to get out of that situation.

There are students who train in Eteri's younger groups and decide (or parents decide) that it is not for them and move on. There are older students, as we know who decide to move on. Those who stay LIKE AND ACCEPT the method. There are plenty of rinks and coaches in Moscow alone. I think i can name 10 to 12 top level training rinks with top coaches just in Moscow. Skaters come to Eteri, she tries them out, they see if they can do well, and if not - they part. Just like everywhere.

Polina Tsurskaya, who left Eteri and went to CSKA club, did not stay and coach at CSKA, she came back to work in Eteri's group. Some posters on FSU constantly complained how Polina is mishandled by Eteri, how she hurt her back. Well.... Polina, after working as a coach at few other rinks, decided to return and to work for Eteri, while she had many other options with CSKA and other clubs.

As to Evgenia being bitter about Zagitova. Yes, that's an unspoken fact. Tutberidze, in a couple of interviews, mentioned that after the Olympics Evgenia wanted a separate ice time. But we can discuss this in Med/Tut topic that is running.

Admittedly, I haven't read every single translated article when it comes to Eteri, but I see a lot of speculation and assumptions every time the discussions turn to her. If someone, probably @Tinami Amori could lay out the actual quoted things here, it would be helpful.

I am not sure what you are asking for? what type of quotes or articles are you looking for?

 

[Aerobicidal]

The power dynamic between the Sambo coaches and skaters is absolutely not comparable to the power dynamic between a college professor and college students.

I don't think this article, published without a surname, deserves to be the subject of substantive comments, but this thread isn't inconsistent with that.

p.s. There's a difference between not smiling and looking existentially miserable, terrified, and like you're going to be attacked for making one mistake in a program.

p.p.s. I assume that most people on this board have inside info about Eteri--whether verified or not--that explains why her staunchest advocates are so defensive. I'll give them a bit of credit: there is more merit to their defensiveness than there was for the possibly even more defensive bloc of Virtue/Moir fans.

 

[tony]

I am not sure what you are asking for? what type of quotes or articles are you looking for?

I think it would just be helpful for not only me (as someone who doesn't speak Russian, doesn't follow all of the articles and their maybe sometimes loose translations) but many others here who are either mind-reading or running with ideas that they might've read elsewhere, to know exactly what facts are known about Eteri and her methods. I see some comparisons in this thread that are really wild for, AFAIK, not having any 100% documented fact, but I welcome anyone to correct me.

The power dynamic between the Sambo coaches and skaters is absolutely not comparable to the power dynamic between a college professor and college students.

I think that example went a little astray from what I meant, which was: of course the easiest professors that don't require much out of students (no book, open-note test, whatever) to get an A will get the best reviews and the quickest fill-ups of their classes. The professors that actually make students go through all of the hoops to learn, spend 2 hours studying per credit hour of class, etc. are 99 out of 100 the ones with the poor/average reviews. The former group may have the success now, but then who tends to succeed in the end as the classes build upon each other?

And I'm wondering by comparison, if in even one of these cases, the skaters directly after leaving Eteri thought that her practices were too much, only to realize later on that they actually work or they need to go back to them. But again, I need to be fully enlightened by someone on everything we do know as fact at this point.

ETA on the not smiling thing. I think we've seen a lot of Russian/European skaters past and present who are very reserved in showing their emotions. Butyrskaya always looked dramatic (intense) as an older example, and Pavliuchenko never smiles on the ice regardless of how she skates but then goes to the kiss and cry and typically looks much more relaxed.

 

[Tinami Amori]

I think it would just be helpful for not only me (as someone who doesn't speak Russian, doesn't follow all of the articles and their maybe sometimes loose translations) but many others here who are either mind-reading or running with ideas that they might've read elsewhere, to know exactly what facts are known about Eteri and her methods. I see some comparisons in this thread that are really wild for, AFAIK, not having any 100% documented fact, but I welcome anyone to correct me.

I can find few youtube interviews where Eteri speaks in English or which have translations, there are parts where she addresses training issues.... but she does not exactly speaks about a "method". Let me know if you want them, because it will take a bit of work.

Then there are translated interviews from her former students, Pitkeev, Shelepen, Tsurskaya, few others, where they basically say that Eteri is a strict coach, but a great person, who helps and guides in life when needed.

 

[muffinplus]

People ask, "why does Valieva never smile," "why does she look so miserable?" Because she is hungry and she is afraid.

Wow, your diagnosis skills are top notch. I'm gonna guess a lot of skaters are hungry and afraid then.

They don't smile because they are focused on a competition. Some of them (unless you are maybe Aleksandra Stepanova) smile in K&C and off the ice, in interviews.

 

[Skibean]

Bravo, Tinami. Conversely, people outside of America often wonder why Americans (or some Asian cultures) must be “showing teeth” constantly. My Russian husband asked why I have to smile all the time, even in my passport photos. It’s a cultural thing.

We weren’t allowed to smile in our passport pictures. They made did re-takes if we did.
I don’t follow Eteri as so many others seem to. It does seem that Zhenya was bitter and blamed Eteri for her loss to Zagitova, but never said it publicly. I don’t think she ever said anything negative about Eteri in public either
If Eteri is so bad, why would she go back and seem so happy now?

 

[barbarafan]

We weren’t allowed to smile in our passport pictures. They made did re-takes if we did.
I don’t follow Eteri as so many others seem to. It does seem that Zhenya was bitter and blamed Eteri for her loss to Zagitova, but never said it publicly. I don’t think she ever said anything negative about Eteri in public either
If Eteri is so bad, why would she go back and seem so happy now?

She does not look happy- just determined to make the best of it. The Federation who seem to feel
Eteri is a big star held all the cards. Med had spoken about 4 possibilities to Brian- none of which were Eteri. If the Russian federation would not allow Med to change coaches as she was way over the deadline she could not compete this yr. That would leave her with the only option of losing her season or going to Eteri as on paper Med's club is still Sambo 70 so is really not a change. Check and Check Mate. It would not be in Med's best interest to release all the details. Fingers crossed it all works out in Med's favour.

 

[okokok777]

If Eteri is so bad, why would she go back and seem so happy now?

Ehhh - I'm not sure if that is the best logic to apply when thinking about potentially toxic or abusive training environments. I'm not going to comment on Eteri/Daniil/Sergei D./Sambo-70 specifically right now since I'm sure most people on this board have made up their minds one way or another about them at this point.

However, the logic of "they wouldn't be so successful/popular as coaches if they were abusive" or "why would they (the athletes) go back if they were so bad" or "parents wouldn't allow their children to train in that kind of environment" is quite flawed IMHO and has been used extensively to defend coaches who were later confirmed to be abusive, including the Karolyis. There could be an array of reasons that an athlete decides to stay, including financial concerns, parental pressure, politics, belief that they "need" that type of treatment to succeed, not realizing that they were being abused due to normalization, etc.

 

[MacMadame]

I'm sure most people on this board have made up their minds one way or another about them at this point.

I haven't!

 

[4rkidz]

The parents also have a responsibility its not all on the coach

 

[Scott512]

Great article on Eteri Tutberidze and her methods:

Eteri Tutberidze and the Future of Figure Skating

For many, the lasting image from the Sochi 2014 Olympic Games of was a little girl in a red coat. That girl was Yulia Lipnitskaya, then 15…

medium.com

I like the fact that the author does not sugarcoat anything...basically saying that Eteri is the skating equivalent of Larry Nasser. Every time authors (or commentators) bring up these kinds of issues with Eteri Tutberidze, the author(s) get attacked and shouted down (usually by Eteri trolls, Eteri's legions of supporters and enablers in the skating world or those in denial). Yet, there is no doubt in my mind that the author is telling the truth. It's too obvious at this point. Everybody in the skating world knows what Eteri and Co. do to little girls but no one has the courage to challenge her or call her out for her abuse (Medvedeva to her credit tried). I think it's a shameful look for skating as a whole.

Layman people can hate Eteri all they want. But comparing Eteri to the Karolyis or that sexual predator Nasser is yellow jouranlism by a journalist and delusional by a figure skating fan. I'm surprised someone hasnt come up with Eteri coached Ekaterina Alexandrovskaya at some point. I think adults played a role in her tragic suicide. But not a certain hated coach.

I also didnt know Eteri coached Gabby Daleman! Oopsies! And Gracie Gold. Those girls careers and lives got ruined and they will never be the same. Where was the outrage? Where was the international media coverage? Gabby had a pretty famous coach when this went down and it wasnt you know who (EG). Pretty sure bad things happen to skaters all the time. Sad. Its a tough sport. I played baseball in college and broke my leg. I was never the same after that. The coach rode my ass nonetheless and I got depressed because I couldnt get back to the level I was at before I got injured. Baseball goals never achieved. But that sports and thats life. Speaking of broken legs Eteris warrior girls Allina and Anna recovering from broken legs so well they way they did a few years ago impresses me to no end. Remarkable. Speaking of Alina and Anna since they both come from loving families I dont think the parents would let them stay in an "abusive" situation. Alina has been with EG 5 years Anna 12 years. EG is far from perfect rough around the edges and immature in some ways. Especially when one of her stars leaves. But comparing Eteri to the crazy Karolyis and the sexual predator Nasser? Ewww. No. Sure she is tough and yells but that how she got treated by coaches when she was the student. Russian coaches in all sports are tough on their pupils. Especially if their students are Russian. I wish she would change and become less rigid and not quite so tough. Losing great skarers has to hurt. Eteri needs to reflect on things. As a fan of hers I admit that. Eteri is learning the hard way with young phenoms leaving her this summer. She needs to change for the better to stop losing phenoms. Can she? Maybe. But it wont be easy.

Zhenya never called out Eteri. Now they are back together. Hmmm. Nice. Too bad Zhenya is not healthy or would have skated this weekend.

All I ask is to be fair all the way around whether is a so called journalist or a fan. Comparing the greatest coach in figure skating to a sexual predator in Larry Nasser isnt exactly fair in my book. If a journalist did it its terrible and if a fan did its a terrible. Eteri is tough and yells and is intimidating. Not everyone is cut out to be coached by her. And she is rough on the boys too. That just the way it is. The line is a mile long for parents to bring their figure skating kids to her. Gee I wonder why.

 

[lala]

One thing is unacceptable and ridiculous to me comparing Eteri to the Károlyis and that sexual predator Nasser. Thus the whole article and probably some true details about Eteri's strict coaching became disbelieving. It is similar to that Rodina video when a skater talked about Eteri and her team's work and she had a statement they are drunk many times...all of her sentences became ridiculous and disbelieving.

 

[overedge]

We weren’t allowed to smile in our passport pictures. They made did re-takes if we did.

Not smiling in passport pictures now is standard practice. It's for facial recognition software to work. Anyone who says they smiled in their passport picture hasn't had one taken recently.

 

[Tinami Amori]

Here is Russia Channel #1 short video on Medvedeva's return to Khrystalniy and her first practice with Tutberidze. There are some "methods" Eteri is displaying... .

Евгения Медведева возвращается к тренеру Этери Тутберидзе, с которой одержала главные победы.

Серебряный призер Олимпиады, символ женственности и мастерства в фигурном катании. И жесткая, но умеющая готовить настоящих чемпионов наставница. Полный выпу...

www.youtube.com

I would like for everyone to note how frail and thin Medvedeva is right now (for the last few months she trained with Tarasova and Buyanova at CSKA). Even hard-core Medvedeva fans are noting it. What she was eating or taking no-one knows, but don't blame Eteri for it....

https://www.instagram.com/p/CFMsJ-4pUJJ/

 

[Scott512]

Here is Russia Channel #1 short video on Medvedeva's return to Khrystalniy and her first practice with Tutberidze. There are some "methods" Eteri is displaying... .

Евгения Медведева возвращается к тренеру Этери Тутберидзе, с которой одержала главные победы.

Серебряный призер Олимпиады, символ женственности и мастерства в фигурном катании. И жесткая, но умеющая готовить настоящих чемпионов наставница. Полный выпу...

www.youtube.com

I would like for everyone to note how frail and thin Medvedeva is right now (for the last few months she trained with Tarasova and Buyanova at CSKA). Even hard-core Medvedeva fans are noting it. What she was eating or taking no-one knows, but don't blame Eteri for it....

https://www.instagram.com/p/CFMsJ-4pUJJ/

I would like o see if Eteri can help Zhenya again. I believe it will work if Zhenya can get helathy. But they have to get to the bottom of Zhenyas back issues and I hope that happens. Back pain is horrible for life. I cant imagine having back pain and being a figure skater too.

 

[hanca]

We weren’t allowed to smile in our passport pictures. They made did re-takes if we did.
I don’t follow Eteri as so many others seem to. It does seem that Zhenya was bitter and blamed Eteri for her loss to Zagitova, but never said it publicly. I don’t think she ever said anything negative about Eteri in public either
If Eteri is so bad, why would she go back and seem so happy now?

She said plenty of negative things. But how much they are the truth and how much it was just said out of anger and bitterness that she lost to Alina, who knows. When she moved to Canada, she was saying things like she finally is able to choose the music she wants to skate to. She made some remarks about eating, that she finally understands that it is not about starving but about eating healthy and nutritious food and getting more muscles. And how unlike in her previous rink, everyone in Canada was so helpful and so dedicated to their own training. While that may look like innocent remarks, it says a lot. If she was finally able to choose the music she wanted to skate to, that means that Tutberidze makes them skate to whatever Tutberidze and her team chooses and they have no choice? Or why she couldn’t skate to whatever she wanted to before? About the eating, if only in Canada she found out how to eat healthily and don’t starve herself, is that something that Tutberidze’s group is lacking- an access to the nutritionist? Or she was not listening when they were taught about healthy food? Or how come she didn’t know at that age? And the remark about how everyone is helpful and dedicated, what that was about? Weren’t her previous fellow skaters and coaches helpful and dedicated?

 

[Frau Muller]

We weren’t allowed to smile in our passport pictures. They made did re-takes if we did.

Not on the US Passport office in downtown Wash, DC, just two years ago, when I renewed mine. I smiled big, as I did in the five previous passports. Different in different countries.

 

[IceJunkie]

I don’t know the internal workings of Eteri’s methods or any coaches. But to me, it seems in recent years the sudden technical “revolution” in ladies skating isn’t a revolution at all. The female prepubescent body is capable of egregiously difficult jumps? Shocking. We’ve known this for decades in both skating and gymnastics. But the real revolution happening is that suddenly consequences of training quads and triple axels at 11-14 don’t really matter anymore. Will they keep them past puberty? Who cares as long as there are four girls waiting in the wing to replace them. Will they need hip replacements and spinal fusions? It doesn’t seem to matter anymore. To me the evidence is mounting that quads and triple axels are not good for the developing body. It’s like how body checking and tackling are age restricted in hockey and football, and the same with curveballs in baseball to prevent teenage Tommy John surgeries. Give it a few years, and I’m sure the evidence will mount it’s destructive to the girls’ bodies and ironically holding the sport back. Just my two cents.