TJ Nyman accused of rape (Dalilah Sappenfield accused of supporting him)

[kwanfan1818]

In my experience, the place where professional adult men and women are called "boys" and "girls" is ballet, and in most other situations, women are called "girls" and men are called "men" or "guys."

"Adult woman" is a bit redundant. "Woman" works just fine on its own.

It's also very different to refer to yourself as a girl and within a social group as "the girls" (if they agree), and another thing to an adult female as "the girl."

 

[hanca]

In my experience, the place where professional adult men and women are called "boys" and "girls" is ballet, and in most other situations, women are called "girls" and men are called "men" or "guys."

"Adult woman" is a bit redundant. "Woman" works just fine on its own.

It's also very different to refer to yourself as a girl and within a social group as "the girls" (if they agree), and another thing to an adult female as "the girl."

Not only in ballet. In skating too. Here in the UK the coaches at my rink often say to their adult female skaters ‘good girl’. When I heard that the first time, I found it weird. Not because of the ‘girl’, but ‘good girl’. The last time I was told I am a good girl, I was ten. You definitely don’t say it to teenagers in my country, and to adults also not.

 

[Vagabond]

Sure, but it is a bit cheap for a poster to criticise someone for something he/she just did himself/herself too.

I am an American. When I lived in the U.K., I received no end of based criticism based on what was ‘normal’ in English or Scottish culture from people who expected me to be as they were. IINM, you too lived in another country before the U.K. So unless you go around telling people in the U.K. that the are making "culture-centric" criticisms, you are applying a higher standard to people on FSU whom you have never met than to people you meet in real life. That seems like a bit cheap to me. YMMV.

 

[Judy]

Speaking of word choices, this is yet another example of someone trivializing how toxic and damaging real bullying is by accusing FSU posters of being bullies.

Dalilah Sappenfield is the perfect example of a bully who used her power to sanction and/or promote assault and threaten anyone who would try to stop it.

FSU posters criticizing (even harshly) a poster for a series of problematic comments . . . that's not bullying. You're equating something harmless or almost harmless with something that is very far from harmless.

You need to grow up a bit.

 

[hanca]

I am an American. When I lived in the U.K., I received no end of based criticism based on what was ‘normal’ in English or Scottish culture from people who expected me to be as they were. IINM, you too lived in another country before the U.K. So unless you go around telling people in the U.K. that the are making "culture-centric" criticisms, you are applying a higher standard to people on FSU whom you have never met than to people you meet in real life. That seems like a bit cheap to me. YMMV.

What a ridiculous thing to say. So if someone does something wrong, in your view people can’t tell him/her, because unless they say the same completely to everyone they have ever met and who has done the same, they are applying higher standards? That’s a bit unrealistic, isn’t that?

But otherwise, yes, if someone in this country criticised me for behaving differently than it is expected, I would explain that something was acceptable in my country.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Here in the UK the coaches at my rink often say to their adult female skaters ‘good girl’.

Would they say to antmanb or a man your age "good boy?" Skating lessons are out of my experience.

 

[hanca]

Would they say to antmanb or a man your age "good boy?" Skating lessons are out of my experience.

I don’t know, I haven’t seen them coaching an adult male of my age. I have only seen them coaching a guy of 18 and he was a good boy when he landed his jumps. To me it felt so weird, but I guess it is the equivalent of the Russian ‘maladiets’.

 

[Tinami Amori]

But otherwise, yes, if someone in this country criticised me for behaving differently than it is expected, I would explain that something was acceptable in my country.

I hope it was not a police officer and your behavior in question was not relevant to the local law that is different from your country...

Personally i would not think something is wrong with a word "girl" vs. "woman/female/lady/etc", unless the subject of discussion was age related.

 

[litenkyckling]

as per this twitter user, it gets worse. Every story coming out of Broadmoor disgusts me more and more. These athletes need our support and solidarity.

Dalilah and TJ (and even more people it sounds like) belong in prison.

the USFSA cannot continue to ignore this.

EDIT: here is the contents of the tweet for people who may not be able to access twitter

tw// sexual assault, abuse shared with permission from a skater at broadmoor:
-tj coerced multiple of his underage partners into having sex with him
-dalilah has had sexual relationships with multiple athletes
-tj and his friends tried to have sex with other minors as well

 

[Coco]

I feel DS should have been publicly rebuked in some way by USFSA after the 2019 Nationals. She was literally fomenting a hostile environment on national tv.

In no way am I'm a fan of her or TJ Nyman

That said, it would be really nice to have confirmation from an entity with a published physical address (or whatever proxy for accountability we are using these days) that allegations have been made to some kind of authority and an investigation is underway. Am I showing my age? Are twitter rumors and public shaming the most we can hope for? I am old enough to remember that rumor mills and ostracism used with chilling effectiveness against victims of sexual assault.

Have I missed some announcement? Is there an official investigation?

 

[MacMadame]

Have I missed some announcement? Is there an official investigation?

There is a Safe Sport investigation. It was mentioned earlier in the thread. David Lease has said he talked to them.

 

[Lemonade20]

The bullying in here is insane.

 

[canbelto]

Victim blamers and rape shamers and rape denialists should be bullied, shamed, and ostracized for their disgusting viewpoints.

 

[miffy]

There is a Safe Sport investigation. It was mentioned earlier in the thread. David Lease has said he talked to them.

Is that enough though especially considering how long they take, should it not be a police matter too?

 

[ЭPiKUilyam]

There is a Safe Sport investigation. It was mentioned earlier in the thread. David Lease has said he talked to them.

But what exactly does it mean "DL has said he talked to them"??? I know DL probably wants people to think he called up SafeSport and the secretary of the president ran into his office saying "DL is on line 2!!!!!! It must be important!!! Pick up!" eyeroll. I don't see how DL has any relevance to the investigation, to be honest. Unless TJ admitted to him that he's guilty, DL is just a gossip/info seeker like any other internet troll trying to act more 'in the know' than others. JMHO.

 

[muffinplus]

Victim blamers and rape shamers and rape denialists should be bullied, shamed, and ostracized for their disgusting viewpoints.

Um. Bullying a poster for using "girl" is ridiculous. Some people need to get off their high horses. I don't think that person was defending rape.

 

[overedge]

Um. Bullying a poster for using "girl" is ridiculous. Some people need to get off their high horses. I don't think that person was defending rape.

No, they weren't defending rape, but they were demeaning the person who wrote the original Tweet by referring to her with a generic term. Her name is Emma Tang, and her name has been posted several times already in this thread. There is no reason to dismiss her as "the girl".

 

[muffinplus]

No, they weren't defending rape, but they were demeaning the person who wrote the original Tweet by referring to her with a generic term. Her name is Emma Tang, and her name has been posted several times already in this thread. There is no reason to dismiss her as "the girl".

You (and) others are basically reading into a word and reaching by saying that poster was demeaning and dismissive. And moreover, then being insulting and attacking that poster. If you don't see it....

 

[tony]

No, they weren't defending rape, but they were demeaning the person who wrote the original Tweet by referring to her with a generic term. Her name is Emma Tang, and her name has been posted several times already in this thread. There is no reason to dismiss her as "the girl".

I think it's a bit of a stretch on your part and not necessarily meant to be demeaning (in other words, you went full-out on an assumption), especially out of all the things that were written to be pointed out in that set of posts. Many people say 'guys and girls', men call their significant others 'girlfriends' and women call their lady friends 'girlfriends'. Women constantly say 'going out with my girls' and gay guys say the same thing. I've seen women talk to adult men and say 'hey boys' as a greeting and I wouldn't think for one minute that it was rude or demeaning but your sensitivity level obviously varies.

 

[Orm Irian]

I think it's a bit of a stretch on your part and not necessarily meant to be demeaning, out of all the things that were written in that set of posts. Many people say 'guys and girls', men call their significant others 'girlfriends' and women call their lady friends 'girlfriends'. Women constantly say 'going out with my girls' and gay guys say the same thing. I've seen women talk to adult men and say 'hey boys' as a greeting and I wouldn't think for one minute that it was rude or demeaning but your sensitivity level obviously varies.

There’s a significant difference in tone between a person using a familiar, established greeting between a group of friends of any age, and a person diminishing a messenger as part of dismissing their message.

 

[Ananas Astra]

as per this twitter user, it gets worse. Every story coming out of Broadmoor disgusts me more and more. These athletes need our support and solidarity.

Dalilah and TJ (and even more people it sounds like) belong in prison.

the USFSA cannot continue to ignore this.

EDIT: here is the contents of the tweet for people who may not be able to access twitter

tw// sexual assault, abuse shared with permission from a skater at broadmoor:
-tj coerced multiple of his underage partners into having sex with him
-dalilah has had sexual relationships with multiple athletes
-tj and his friends tried to have sex with other minors as well

Jesus Fecking Christ!
What else is there to come?

 

[okokok777]

I feel DS should have been publicly rebuked in some way by USFSA after the 2019 Nationals. She was literally fomenting a hostile environment on national tv.

In no way am I'm a fan of her or TJ Nyman

That said, it would be really nice to have confirmation from an entity with a published physical address (or whatever proxy for accountability we are using these days) that allegations have been made to some kind of authority and an investigation is underway. Am I showing my age? Are twitter rumors and public shaming the most we can hope for? I am old enough to remember that rumor mills and ostracism used with chilling effectiveness against victims of sexual assault.

Have I missed some announcement? Is there an official investigation?

Is that enough though especially considering how long they take, should it not be a police matter too?

SafeSport is investigating. Due to the nature of the allegations, it has also been reported to law enforcement. However, I'm not sure if there is an active investigation.

Per SafeSport policy, the employees cannot publicly confirm an investigation is taking place unless a temporary measure (like no-contact directives or a suspension) have been implemented. There are a few journalist that are looking into this - so they may be able to privately review documents/communication to "officially" confirm the investigation to the public (this is common practice when articles discuss active SafeSport investigations). I'm doing everything I can from my side to expedite that process.

 

[tony]

There’s a significant difference in tone between a person using a familiar, established greeting between a group of friends of any age, and a person diminishing a messenger as part of dismissing their message.

I am 100% agreeing that parts of the post were dismissive - especially essentially throwing the whole thing out because Emma's choice of 'inappropriate language' and/or because she chose Instagram to share the information. I said sensitivity is obviously going to vary, but I'm not going to get upset when I go to a restaurant with friends and the server addresses us with, 'Hey boys, what would you like?' I don't know that server from any other stranger. I get that the situation is different; was it the best word choice? Probably not. Was it meant to be demeaning? I don't see it as an obvious yes.

 

[overedge]

You (and) others are basically reading into a word and reaching by saying that poster was demeaning and dismissive. And moreover, then being insulting and attacking that poster. If you don't see it....

Oh, I see it all too well. But apparently you don't. Bullying is calling someone "the girl", when her name is public and has already been mentioned several times in the thread. Those words are deliberate choices. When "the girl" is an adult woman, choosing to ignore her name and referring to her by a term used for children is, indeed, demeaning and dismissive. And when that person (Emma Tang) is speaking out about trauma and abuse, demeaning and dismissing her is even more unacceptable.

I won't make any apologies for calling out that kind of behaviour.

 

[muffinplus]

I am 100% agreeing that parts of the post were dismissive - especially essentially throwing the whole thing out because Emma's choice of 'inappropriate language' and/or because she chose Instagram to share the information.

The poster took issue with how the information was shared but also wrote "Again, I’m not ready to judge without knowing more. "

I mean, is that throwing the whole thing out? Anyways, I'm outta here.

 

[tony]

The poster took issue with how the information was shared but also wrote "Again, I’m not ready to judge without knowing more. "

I mean, is that throwing the whole thing out? Anyways, I'm outta here.

I mean, read the further replies and then decide maybe?

This is the poster's response to me when I commented that the language was apparently the big take-away from the post and that Instagram is an extremely popular method of sharing info these days:

I just think it diminishes her argument.

But, as someone who does know something about writing and journalism, I’m happy to judge people on the modes in which they express themselves publicly.

 

[muffinplus]

I mean, read the further replies and then decide maybe?

This is the poster's response to me when I commented that the language was apparently the big take-away from the post and that Instagram is an extremely popular method of sharing info these days:

"Diminishes her argument" isn't the same as "she is a liar".

 

[tony]

"Diminishes her argument" isn't the same as "she is a liar".

I didn't say anything about her being a liar - that's a quote from you. You literally just tried to quote me with an argument that says 'Again, I'm not ready to judge'. I said the poster in question was ready to throw the whole thing out and judge (their words) based on the language used and the method of posting used-- because to that poster, Instagram stories aren't serious enough for the professional journalist.

 

[Prancer]

"Diminishes her argument" isn't the same as "she is a liar".

But "I’m happy to judge people on the modes in which they express themselves publicly" invites comments on the post, does it not?

Is this really what you all want to argue about on this thread? I'm not here to tell you what to talk about, I am just amazed that this is your choice when there are so many others available here.

 

[muffinplus]

I didn't say anything about her being a liar - that's a quote from you. You literally just tried to quote me with an argument that says 'Again, I'm not ready to judge'. I said the poster in question was ready to throw the whole thing out and judge (their words) based on the language used and the method of posting used-- because to that poster, Instagram stories aren't serious enough for the professional journalist.

I wasn't saying you specifically said that... it was more the general tone of the posts that followed which accuse the poster of basically calling her a liar based on his/her post.

But again, using your words, "throwing the whole thing" isn't equivalent to what the poster said i.e that it "diminishes her argument" . I mean, it's just the poster saying the way she expressed herself isn't the best way of going about if. I don't necessarily even agree with that, but that's not throwing the whole thing out. OK, done.