U.S. Women [#6]: The More the Merrier!
- Thread starter Vagabond
- Start date
- Status
Yikes...what a tough competition for the Americans (so happy for Wakaba Higuchi though). I guess it's no consolation to Bradie Tennell that if she had landed that 2nd lutz (instead of popping it), she would have won Skate America. Now, she probably won't qualify for the final no matter what she does at her next Grand Prix. I attribute all the falls from Elyce Lyn-Gracey to rookie nerves. The jumps that she did manage to land were beauties though. I hope she does better at Skate Canada next weekend. Isabeau Levito was very lucky to get the bronze here (as she was only 5th in the Free). The judges are starting to call her on her technical problems such as edge changes, under-rotations and lack of speed. Isabeau still has a chance to make the final but I am not seeing any technical improvements from her and the rest of the field seem super hungry (and are making the technical improvements that Isabeau is not). It's going to be difficult for Isabeau to make the final, but I am wishing her luck at her next Grand Prix.
LOL. You do know that Isabeau would have won if she had landed her second lutz, right? Even with the fall on the lutz, she was only 2.1 points away from winning the gold. And she won the short program. She said in her interview with NBC that she got too excited that she was skating so well and rushed the entry to her lutz. I hope it doesn't get into her head and she can look forward.
Especially considering the fact that Isabeau has grown three inches in the last year, I think she skated quite well this week, though I'm sure the perfectionist in her is going to be mad that she made the mistake on the lutz.
We are lucky to have so much depth with the American women, though I definitely think the Japanese women still are stronger with more depth.
That's the crux of the problem...Isabeau has outgrown her current technique.
Private Citizen
"PC." Pronouns: none/none
- Messages
- 4,699
FWIW I think it’s partially true. I do think her larger stature is causing her to turn over to an inside edge on her lutz and to have under rotation issues on the toe. She was getting away with this same technique without calls with a smaller body.
As I said on another thread, I think she can significantly improve her math by switching to 3F+3T and 3Lo in the short and two loops in the free skate.
DreamSkates
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 3,503
Agree except I do like her SP but her FP needs some pizzazz.
- Messages
- 49,332
The FP is boring. I’m not a fan of the music. But casting her as Audrey was genius.
SkateFanBerlin
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 1,726
Lindsay looked pretty rough last season. She has things to work on but she seems more settled into her bigger self. Maybe, as you say, it`s mostly the growth getting worked in.
Unfortunately bad technique often doesn’t survive the growth spurt. If she had solid technique to start with, she would have an adjustment period but would more easily work through it. Her coach has done her zero favors. She should have brought in specialists to address the jumps YEARS ago. They also should have been working to show artistic growth. The same formula cannot work year after year. Her coach is a control freak who was so nervous about losing her athlete that she didn’t do what was necessary to set her up for long term success.
That's an excellent suggestion. Carolina Kostner put the lutz on hold for many years, while she re-worked her lutz technique. She only brought it back for the Olympic year (and won Bronze). The strategy paid off. Joannie Rochette also took the time to re-work her lutz technique (with much success).
Between her short and her long, she landed all but one of her jumps. Even Ilia missed his triple lutz today. She said she got excited and rushed the entry on the lutz. At least she was able to not make a mistake after that. For years now, some people have been blaming every mistake on her technique, and that just isn't reality.
But, I do think it is hard for any skater to adjust to a three-inch growth spurt. It throws things off. I think one up-side to it is that it has required Isabeau to become comfortable with making mistakes in practice and regrouping.
I don't think the edge issue is entirely new. In general, the technical callers seem to be stricter so far this season.
It's possible that would make sense after crunching the math. But, it really depends on what she feels more comfortable doing, not just whether the GOE would make up for the difference in base values. Although her lutz issues are the most obvious, that doesn't mean that she feels uncomfortable doing it. And because she does stress so much, doing what is comfortable for her may make the most sense.
She's already changed her short program once this season. With her current short, which I think works very well for her, she would have to adjust what she does leading up to the solo jump. Depending on how they do it, that could make things more comfortable for her. I do think the lead-up to that jump currently is fairly difficult. She and her coach tend to pack a bit too much into her programs. That was a problem with her snake program, too. So, a change in jumps would require quite a bit of thought.
DreamSkates
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 3,503
Why the under rotations, etc. That all seems fixable. It’s not like she’s falling in so many jumps. Just the one she said she rushed.
Under-rotations are just one of many technical issues that I see. She's also getting edge calls.
She has very weak edging and basic stroking for someone at her level. She has no speed. She telegraphs her jumps. Her jumps have zero spring. She does not use her legs to push herself up into the air. Rather, she uses her upper body to spin herself off the ice and into the jump. Now that she is taller, that technique (Eteri technique) is no longer working. It's not just the lutz. Most of her jumps look like a struggle (to get up into the air).
We saw this same (expiration date) with each and every one of Eteri's skaters (Lipnitskaja, Medvedeva, Zagitova, Trusova, Kostornaia, Sherbakova, Valieva etc) once they got to the age of 17 (or so) and outgrew the technique.
Rukia
A Southern, hot-blooded temperamental individual
- Messages
- 25,106
Isabeau's basic skating skills are actually really good? She has great speed in everything not a jump, and beautiful long sweeping edges.
AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)
Get it Amber 😝
- Messages
- 15,860
just like last season I have no reservations about the skating of Isabeau. I feel like she’ll be on every podium at every competition she will be in this season through nationals. She’s not someone that worries me.
Private Citizen
"PC." Pronouns: none/none
- Messages
- 4,699
Haterz gonna hate, but I maintain: the only problem that's routinely showing up in Levito's protocols is the 3Lz!+3Tq (or sometimes worse).
I don't understand the argument re: telegraphed jumps, other than the lutz (which has improved - time it v. previous seasons), since all the other jumps have footwork or linking elements into them. Maybe effortful takeoffs with a lot of upper body movement? But not telegraphs.
I do think Levito's flutz has gotten worse. It's not a matter of it being it not called previously and called now. Look at videos: when she was smaller, she could either hold the edge or keep it to a flat. It's rolling over to the inside edge very obviously now. Jenny Kirk was another "late in life" flutzer whose growth wreaked havoc on this jump in particular.
Almost all skaters (other than maybe Sakamoto) deal with a < here or a q there. The big, big problem is the lutz combo. She can't afford -1.5 GOE, plus potential base value reduction is she gets a < or e, if her competitors are getting +1.5 GOE. That's a three-point swing, or five points if she gets base value reduction, and near-impossible to make up.
I don't understand the argument re: telegraphed jumps, other than the lutz (which has improved - time it v. previous seasons), since all the other jumps have footwork or linking elements into them. Maybe effortful takeoffs with a lot of upper body movement? But not telegraphs.
I do think Levito's flutz has gotten worse. It's not a matter of it being it not called previously and called now. Look at videos: when she was smaller, she could either hold the edge or keep it to a flat. It's rolling over to the inside edge very obviously now. Jenny Kirk was another "late in life" flutzer whose growth wreaked havoc on this jump in particular.
Almost all skaters (other than maybe Sakamoto) deal with a < here or a q there. The big, big problem is the lutz combo. She can't afford -1.5 GOE, plus potential base value reduction is she gets a < or e, if her competitors are getting +1.5 GOE. That's a three-point swing, or five points if she gets base value reduction, and near-impossible to make up.
Vagabond
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 26,772
I thought she wasn't reworking her technique but rather working on rehabilitation from an injury that made it difficult or painful to enter the lutz from the outside edge.
kwanfan1818
RIP D-10
- Messages
- 39,317
Kostner was recovering from injury and did remove jumps because of it, putting them back in when she could. She was one of the few women who had a true lutz and a true flip coming into seniors at the time.
Theatregirl1122
Needs a nap
- Messages
- 34,066
People have said that about Isabeau every year for the last quad at least. It may be true someday, but people see incredibly excited to state it as fact any time she has a bad event.
Rukia
A Southern, hot-blooded temperamental individual
- Messages
- 25,106
imagine your bad event be winning a grand prix medal lol
SkateFanBerlin
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 1,726
They're very different but that aspect reminds me of Ashley. Even near the end when she was fading she still took medals.
Coco
Rotating while Russian!
- Messages
- 19,126
I think it was a mix. The injury / weakness made the jump unstable.
Sylvia
Flight #5342: I Will Remember You
- Messages
- 84,278
"With her first senior Grand Prix out of the way, the 17-year-old USA figure skater said she learned more about her nerves and what techniques she can use to turn the competition jitters to her advantage." Elyce Lin-Gracey article by Lena Smirnova and Scott Bregman: https://olympics.com/en/news/figure-skating-elyce-lin-gracey-usa-grand-prix-debut-interview
ICYMI, I've been posting Alysa-related news links in her GSD thread, starting here: https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/th...ming-back-in-2024.109609/page-18#post-6661781
ICYMI, I've been posting Alysa-related news links in her GSD thread, starting here: https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/th...ming-back-in-2024.109609/page-18#post-6661781
Sylvia
Flight #5342: I Will Remember You
- Messages
- 84,278
Sandra Bezic just posted this today: https://www.instagram.com/p/DBeXEhNRzdU/
Sylvia
Flight #5342: I Will Remember You
- Messages
- 84,278
ETA - photos of Alysa in practice and quotes from her mixed zone afterwards are posted in her GSD thread, starting here: https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/th...ming-back-in-2024.109609/page-18#post-6667958
Jackie Wong posted on X this morning: "Clean runthrough for Elyce Lin-Gracey just now: 3Lz3T, 3S, 3Lo, 2A, 3F2A2T, 3F2T, 3Lz"
ETA Jackie's Friday practice jump notes: https://x.com/rockerskating/status/1849839270619644240
Jackie Wong posted on X this morning: "Clean runthrough for Elyce Lin-Gracey just now: 3Lz3T, 3S, 3Lo, 2A, 3F2A2T, 3F2T, 3Lz"
ETA Jackie's Friday practice jump notes: https://x.com/rockerskating/status/1849839270619644240
Last edited:
I pray that Elyce isn't like Gracie where she can skate clean in practice but struggles in the real event.
Private Citizen
"PC." Pronouns: none/none
- Messages
- 4,699
I’m hoping the Elyce Lin-Gracey hype machine dies down after her GP results. To me, she still skates like a good, but run of the mill, junior with untrustworthy Tammy technique and an underwhelming free skate that goes nowhere. I’m not convinced she (or Everhardt for that matter) are the next big thing that some are making them out to be.
I also think people have gotten a bit too excited about Alysa Lu’s comeback. She has lots of work to do on jump rotations and stamina.
I also think people have gotten a bit too excited about Alysa Lu’s comeback. She has lots of work to do on jump rotations and stamina.
- Status
Users who are viewing this thread
Similar threads
