Canadian figure skating

[pat c]

Another thing that I've noticed in the past few years is that there's not much of an 'emotional' connection to a lot of the skaters in terms of the choice of music they are using. Where's the "entertainment" factor? It's all heavy, complicated and quite frankly "inaccessible" music that doesn't really generate a lot of excitement or any "feeling factor" with the audience. Outside of a couple of performances this weekend I just felt disconnected from everything...

Think of programs of the past... Those Nic Nadeau programs, Sale & Pelletier, Chouinard, B&K, V&M.... Most of the programs we have seen in the past couple of years, to me, have been much more "abstract". The classic "build up" to end a program is often missing, sot here is no 'momentum' to get an audience to stand for you.

I agree. Music can make or break. If I don't like the music, it takes me a long time to warm up to the program. The skater has an uphill battle to make me like it, even when I recognize their skill. Using recognizable music can make the program instantly recognizable. I hear pirates of the caribbean and I'm right there with you.

I think Tessa is just as recognizable as Hayley or Christine, if not more so. At least in Canada. But figure skating as a whole has never been great with using their stars to promote the sport because by the time they peak, they retire.

This is me not manhn, every once in a while, when I quote, things go wonky.

I kind of forgot about Tessa, I know slap me. She has a lot of pr value, but I hate to say it, there are more little girl hockey and soccer players so I think Wickenheisser and Sinclar are more recognizable. Joannie Rochette and Kaetlyn Osmond could have been promoted more back in the day. Oh well.

A wise person once said that if it involved more than 3 stops when they were travelling, they didn't go. It rang a bell and now I mentally calculate how many stops. London, Ont for instance - I drive to the airport (2 hours), get on the plane, go to TO (god I hate Pearson), then hop on a small plane to get to London, then the airport to the hotel. 4. I'm out, didn't go to worlds in London for that reason. Too many moving parts that make me dependent on the weather cooperating and/or other things. Even tho I like the idea of smaller cities, it is the airport problem that is the problem in Jan. Now other events? People (not me unless I want to see that city/area) will be willing to go to smaller venues.

 

[tony]

Before I say anything negative about Canadian Nationals audiences…let’s see the crowds at US Nationals in Columbus, OH. I’m hoping for a full arena (better than last year in San Jose) but afraid of reality.

You can always go to Ticketmaster and look at the seating map for an idea of how it's going to be. As of now, it's not abysmal but it's also not great.

 

[her grace]

Skate Canada's current woes are a long time in the making. Here's a post I made in 2016 about how Canada was concentrating all their resources on the A-team and not developing the sport.

I don't know if Skate Canada as an entity really cares if there's no depth to ice dance. As long as it has one or more medal contenders in a discipline, it seem satisfied. Otherwise, it would be developing the B-team (through international assignments, funding, etc.) to eventually challenge and/or replace the A-team as those skaters retire. Maybe Skate Canada is expecting the next generation to come from juniors, but that, too is looking thin right now. Lajoie/Lagha (sp?) look promising, but is there anyone else?

Skaters and their parents see that there's little hope of international assignments in Canada so why keep skating? In the U.S., even McNamara/Spiridonov could realistically expect at least 2 Challenger/GP level international assignments and the Bratti/Somerville types could expect 3-4 challenger/GPs.

The federation is doing very little to maximize the number of skaters who have the TES mins for anything.

The fact that the minimums are a problem every single year should be sending alarm bells. Many of Canada's skaters never get a chance to even try to get their minimum scores.

I mean, at least they graciously allowed any skaters who wanted to enter Cranberry Cup to do so at their own expense this year, but what if you didn't have the time or money because you were focused on the JGP or live on the other side of the country? The USFS at least supports their developing skaters by having 1-2 senior Bs where entry isn't dictated or controlled by the Int'l Committee (LPIDI, Cranberry, John Nicks IPC, Kings Cup Int'l). If Skate Canada wants to go that same route then they should encourage Patinage Quebec or one of the other sections to turn one of their late summer comps into senior B in the same way as those events in the US - Quebec Ete Championnats already attracts a substantial int'l field in ice dance and I'm sure plenty of pairs teams and singles skaters would make a mid-August trip to Montreal to try and get TES mins early in the season.

Yes, if the fed has no funds to send skaters to Europe or the U.S., then the feasible solution is to add a senior/junior B component to existing competitions in Canada.

 

[Former Lurve Goddess]

A wise person once said that if it involved more than 3 stops when they were travelling, they didn't go. It rang a bell and now I mentally calculate how many stops. London, Ont for instance - I drive to the airport (2 hours), get on the plane, go to TO (god I hate Pearson), then hop on a small plane to get to London, then the airport to the hotel. 4. I'm out, didn't go to worlds in London for that reason. Too many moving parts that make me dependent on the weather cooperating and/or other things. Even tho I like the idea of smaller cities, it is the airport problem that is the problem in Jan. Now other events? People (not me unless I want to see that city/area) will be willing to go to smaller venues.

Because they're in January, I've only ever attended Canadian Nationals when they've been held near where I live or somewhere where I'm already visiting for other reasons. As I don't knit or do standing ovations , I also prefer to attend International events.

 

[Desperado]

Addressing the streaming visibility issue, you have to know the schedule to find the skating streams, they are not highlighted on the Gem app, they’re often hidden under “Live TV”, then Sports.

I used to be able to watch Dailymotion on my AppleTV but now even though I can open the app and find the Skate Canada live videos, I get whatever promoted piece they have instead of the video. Creating an account might help, but it may not and I have online accounts fatigue.

I’m with others here, watching on my laptop is fine in a pinch, bit not always.

It’s not just SC though. Where can we watch the US Nationals from Canada, as we have no Peacock access?

Bottom line, I can only watch skating because FSU folks generously guide me to it.

This does not grow audiences.

 

[tony]

It’s not just SC though. Where can we watch the US Nationals from Canada, as we have no Peacock access?

Bottom line, I can only watch skating because FSU folks generously guide me to it.

This does not grow audiences.

Women’s and mens free skates and the free dance are on NBC. More or less the same as it’s been since the mid 90s with the short programs coming on cable subscription channels. So AFAIK this is not a newer issue or sudden problem for Canadian fans.

But the fandom is growing. Older audiences that aren’t as savvy with finding it online or navigating the internet in general may have continued problems, but younger generations are following at much higher numbers. It’s all about social media now.

 

[puglover]

One of the bits of information shared by Ted for each skater here was the age they began skating. When my kids skated back in the '90s you would often hear elite skaters of the day talk about watching a skater on television at the Olympics or another competition, becoming enchanted, and begging their parents for lessons. I know several quite successful male skaters currently coaching or performing on cruise ships who were former hockey skaters, taking stroking lessons from figure skating coaches, who convinced them to make the transition to figure skates, probably in their early teens. Now with the increased demands of the sport, it would seem 2-4 are the ideal ages to begin and 7 seen as slightly late. So more so than in the past, it seems it is parents choosing figure skating for their very tiny children. I hope SkateCanada has a good grassroots program with experienced coaches teaching and asking enthusiastic kids "which one is your Mommy?" .

 

[Desperado]

Women’s and mens free skates and the free dance are on NBC. More or less the same as it’s been since the mid 90s with the short programs coming on cable subscription channels. So AFAIK this is not a newer issue or sudden problem for Canadian fans.

But the fandom is growing. Older audiences that aren’t as savvy with finding it online or navigating the internet in general may have continued problems, but younger generations are following at much higher numbers. It’s all about social media now.

Thank you once again for your usual condescension. It should’ve been clear from my post that I meant full streaming coverage.

 

[Wyliefan]

@her grace You were right back in 2016, of course, but it's ironic that you wrote about dance, the one discipline that has some depth!

 

[tony]

Thank you once again for your usual condescension. It should’ve been clear from my post that I meant full streaming coverage.

How should I know you meant that? Has US Nationals ever been fully on streaming for the rest of the world? AFAIK no because of the television rights.

I don’t know where the condescension came in when I repeatedly read on this board that audiences are dying out around the world. I’ve been following as a fan since 1993 and online since 1996. The worldwide involvement is much more massive now, and streaming in huge part has achieved that.

 

[honey]

Women’s and mens free skates and the free dance are on NBC. More or less the same as it’s been since the mid 90s with the short programs coming on cable subscription channels. So AFAIK this is not a newer issue or sudden problem for Canadian fans.

But the fandom is growing. Older audiences that aren’t as savvy with finding it online or navigating the internet in general may have continued problems, but younger generations are following at much higher numbers. It’s all about social media now.

There at least used to be the option for internationals viewers to watch most of it on Ice Network. Only part of the free skates used to be blocked (probably whatever was live on NBC). Through 2020 there was also NBC gold that didn’t geo block. There is no option now for international viewers to watch the short programs live on streaming. I’ve said this many times, I’d be happy to pay for Peacock. But you can’t set up an account without a US credit card.

 

[SkateGuard]

Don't the highways to and from Kelowna become treacherous when there's weather? I

They 100% do. A few years back, I was travelling from Calgary and my flight got diverted due to weather. I ended up having to take a cab from Kelowna to Penticton in the middle of a snowstorm. They aren't used to (or in any way equipped for) snow there and I still look back at that cab ride thinking OMG... I'm lucky to be alive. It was scary stuff.

 

[tony]

There at least used to be the option for internationals viewers to watch most of it on Ice Network. Only part of the free skates used to be blocked (probably whatever was live on NBC). Through 2020 there was also NBC gold that didn’t geo block. There is no option now for international viewers for the short programs. I’ve said this many times, I’d be happy to pay for Peacock. But you can’t set up an account without a US credit card.

So the problem in question, as far as I am reading, is around 4 years old and isn’t really new. Of course it revolves around the streaming rights of the broadcaster and the money they (hope to) take in.

Ice Network as a skating-only platform obviously couldn’t sustain, and Sports Gold couldn’t sustain as a sports-only platform. Peacock now has a lot of exclusive content, recently released movies, the sole rights to classic TV shows, and plenty of sports. One of the NFL playoff games was exclusive to it this weekend, which would have otherwise pulled huge numbers on broadcast TV. All signs point to things shifting almost completely to streaming.

Technology is always changing and things happen. For many years, ESPN2 wasn’t offered as part of my cable package option here in the US and I missed out on Nationals and Worlds short programs year after year. And back then, there was zero option to ever see them unless you tape traded.

 

[her grace]

@her grace You were right back in 2016, of course, but it's ironic that you wrote about dance, the one discipline that has some depth!

Ha ha, well, I was writing in a thread about dance in 2016, but my concern at that time was all the Canadian disciplines. It seemed like Canada had 1-2 amazing skaters in each discipline and absolutely no succession plan.

 

[Ladyslipper]

Just one thought that came to mind regarding the low levels of audience attendance at Nationals in Calgary. I wonder how much location plays a factor as well. I'm part of the target market for these events - gay and with the lifestyle and financial flexibility to be able to thankfully attend in person if I so choose to. I attend any major international or national event in-person within driving distance from the GTA, whether it be Montreal, Kingston, London, Kitchener etc or even in the US whether Detroit or Lake Placid etc.

In the case of Calgary, luckily my best friend lives there and I could easily fly and attend with free accommodations and a best friend visit. I was seriously considering attending Junior Worlds last year in Calgary, and also considered Canadian Nationals in Calgary this year. The #1 reason I chose not to attend is not wanting to travel and deal with potential snowmageddons, driving in a rental car in crazy amounts of snow and extreme cold temperatures. Hearing some of the stories in the other threads about having to leave the rink and run your car every 2 hours in order for it to be able to run in the extreme cold temperatures reinforce the fears I had about an event in Calgary that held me back from attending.

I am all for sharing the wealth and distributing events around the country as much as possible. However, hosting events that take place in January/February specifically in a location such as Calgary (or Edmonton, or even in MB/SK for that matter) where the winters are extreme doesn't make me want to go to the effort and investment of traveling. Calgary would be a lot more appealing in Sept/Oct for an Autumn Classic or Skate Canada at that time of the year, than in the bitter peak of winter. Something to consider around major event planning when audiences are dwindling and it is important to try and reduce attendance barriers where possible.

Agree 100% with you comments. I decided to come to Calgary at the last minute but decided it was not wise to rent a car. The location was really not good. I fretted each day about getting an Uber or cab back to my hotel, which was one of the closest but simply not walkable. They really need better planning for the venues for Nationals.

 

[4rkidz]

I think the reality is streaming is here and not going away. More people watch online than on tv. So let’s take it to the next stage and improve the quality of the streaming and make it more professional.

The YouTube ISU events have had better quality, and good viewership. Growing the sport means attracting younger viewers and I think skate Canada is doing a good job with their social media. The number of people attending events live is dwindling and is primarily the older demographic who have greatly reduced attending due to costs and health (since Covid). So I think this is a transition time.

Canskate attendance is at its highest all over Canada this winter, we need to attract those parents to attend live? That should be the target market, not my generation.

My five cents!

 

[Sonata]

Are you sure Nationals wasn't on the CBC sports app? I watched on CBC Gem but the replays are definitely on the sports app.

The livestream wasn’t on the front page or under Live. I didn’t check CBC Gem. I have a vague memory of trying to watch a Canadian event last year and finding it on CBC Gem, but not on the CBC Sports app. I don’t know why that is as figure skating is a sport. I texted a friend to find out how they were watching the livestream and they told me about daily motion. If they want to grow or even maintain the sport, and if if CBC was live-streaming, then they should negotiate with CBC about making the stream very visible, make it really obvious how to watch it on their apps.

 

[Former Lurve Goddess]

The livestream wasn’t on the front page or under Live. I didn’t check CBC Gem. I have a vague memory of trying to watch a Canadian event last year and finding it on CBC Gem, but not on the CBC Sports app. I don’t know why that is as figure skating is a sport. I texted a friend to find out how they were watching the livestream and they told me about daily motion. If they want to grow or even maintain the sport, and if if CBC was live-streaming, then they should negotiate with CBC about making the stream very visible, make it really obvious how to watch it on their apps.

Oh I totally agree - CBC makes it way too hard to find the figure skating livestreams. That didn't use to be the case - I wonder if the budget cuts are the cause?

 

[Sonata]

Oh I totally agree - CBC makes it way too hard to find the figure skating livestreams. That didn't use to be the case - I wonder if the budget cuts are the cause?

The CBC budget cuts? It is a rather depressing landscape all around. But I would think CBC would be investing in its apps - this is where the future is going.

 

[barbarafan]

Chromecast just recently stopped supporting the daily motion app and it’s no longer available. I had it on there originally, but the search function never worked properly within the app. I would have to cast from my phone every time because I couldn’t search within the Chromecast daily motion app. Not too long ago I was making a last ditch effort to figure out the issue, and deleted the app with the plan to reinstall it. It was gone when I tried to reinstall it . As you said though, not really a huge deal as CBC Gem is there and works just fine.

IIRC, the chromecast came pre loaded with a few of the more common apps (YouTube, Netflix etc). And then you can search and add others if you want. As others said, you have to put in all your log in info, but that’s getting easier now than ever with many of them having a QR code you can scan with your phone to help with the set up.

I can’t recommend a Chromecast enough. Very cheap and user friendly

i use firefox

 

[honey]

i use firefox

I’m talking about a Chromecast. Not the internet browser Chrome.

 

[4rkidz]

The CBC budget cuts? It is a rather depressing landscape all around. But I would think CBC would be investing in its apps - this is where the future is going.

I think it was less to do with CBC gem and more to do with the quality of the production from the rink. Although cbc gem should highlight the event easier on its site. Although if you just go to live events it’s not too bad.

 

[Judy]

Except the skating establishment has always been so homophobic that it would be instantly called out, and I'm not sure they'd be welcome.

I disagree with Ottawa. They had over 10K supporters turn out in Ottawa. Although I wasn’t there it was amazing. just an endless parade of floats/trucks, companies respecting their employees. I did watch different person‘s live stream and it was definatel a amazing day and turnout.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

there was a small group of haters but the defenders blocked them out lol. A lot of them are the insane remaining members of the Ottawa convoy occupation that happened nearly 2 years ago. However, they were very small in numbers.

 

[skatingguy]

I disagree with Ottawa. They had over 10K supporters turn out in Ottawa. Although I wasn’t there it was amazing. just an endless parade of floats/trucks, companies respecting their employees. I did watch different person‘s live stream and it was definatel a amazing day and turnout.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

there was a small group of haters but the defenders blocked them out lol. A lot of them are the insane remaining members of the Ottawa convoy occupation.

What does that have to do with the history of homophobia in skating? Capital Pride did a great job with the parade, and other pride events, but that doesn't mean that Skate Canada would suddenly be welcome to enter a float.

 

[Judy]

What does that have to do with the history of homophobia in skating? Capital Pride did a great job with the parade, and other pride events, but that doesn't mean that Skate Canada would suddenly be welcome to enter a float.

They def would have in Ottawa but using their skaters or members. It’s not like the parade had their management, CEO’s it just expressed companies respect etc. not every LGBTQ is a skating fan either. Or the general public. At the same time I’m not sure that Skate Canada would even have thought of it too.

The crazy backlash has been about transgender and the crazies believing teachers/schools are grooming them vs recognizing that schools are and should be safe for every kid. My best friend is a stepmom to a transgender boy. Transgender obviously is very complicated but his dad and her are the best at supporting.

 

[peibeck]

Calgary would be a lot more appealing in Sept/Oct for an Autumn Classic or Skate Canada at that time of the year, than in the bitter peak of winter. Something to consider around major event planning when audiences are dwindling and it is important to try and reduce attendance barriers where possible.

I remember attending 2006 Worlds in Calgary and even in mid-late March it was brutally cold. I still have such vivid memories of waiting in the sub zero winds for the tram to take me to the arena, I don't think I'd go back even in August.

 

[Frau Muller]

I think the reality is streaming is here and not going away. More people watch online than on tv. ….

I watch streaming on TV (Peacock or YouTube)… on a big & sharp TV screen. I do not watch hunching over a computer or cell phone. No VPNs, extra wires and plugs. Let’s not put down TV sets/screens.

 

[Winnipeg]

IMHO, the best cities to host these events are ones where it is "easier" to attend. IN other words, you can arrive in one flight, can take one cab to the hotel, walk or transit to the event (no need for rental car), have many options to eat within walking distance to the arena etc............Cities I have attended skating:

Calgary - at the Saddledome - great venue - the arena for the 2024 nationals, not nearly as convenient, you would need a car and I believe there is nothin nearby to walk to between events. For that reason, I opted not to go.

Saskatoon - not ideal, you need a car and the arena is way out there with not much nearby.

Vancouver - Worlds 2021, excellent venue located in a good part of downtown.

Dortmund - great venue, we could get to the rink easily by transit and many cute little cafes within walking distance to the arena

Halifax - a good location. The cab from the airport to the downtown is along one but once you there, a nice city very walkable

Edmonton - Worlds in 96 and Nationals in 94 - great access by transit, very convenient

London, ON, need a connecting flight, not that convenient

Winnipeg - 2001 - old arena - not that convenient - BUT if an event could be held at the MTS Center, it would be very convenient

I am attending Worlds in Montreal - one flight, one cab ride, walk to rink from hotel, lots of restaurants and a great city to visit overall!!!

 

[overedge]

I don't mean this in a negative way, but a lot of people involved in skating only drive to arenas. Which of course makes sense if you have a skater, or are a skater, or have stuff for a competition or test session, and have a bunch of gear to take with you. But IMO that leads organizers to overlook that not everyone drives, and not everyone wants to drive to an arena, particularly if the parking is $$$. I wish one of the non-negotiables for a Nationals location was regular and reliable public transit to and from the arena. (By which I mean to the arena, not a stop that's a 10-15 minute walk away.)

 

[Former Lurve Goddess]

I don't mean this in a negative way, but a lot of people involved in skating only drive to arenas. Which of course makes sense if you have a skater, or are a skater, or have stuff for a competition or test session, and have a bunch of gear to take with you. But IMO that kind of makes organizers overlook that not everyone drives, and not everyone wants to drive to an arena, particularly if the parking is $$$. I wish one of the non-negotiables for a Nationals location was regular and reliable public transit to and from the arena. (By which I mean to the arena, not a stop that's a 10-15 minute walk away.)

As a certified bike-riding left-wing pinko (to quote former hockey pundit Don Cherry), I hate this attitude. I don't have a car because I live in a downtown condo near a subway stop (and we don't have parking). When my other half and I borrowed my father's car to drive to SOI in Ottawa, we found the parking and traffic situation terrible. We almost missed the opening because the westward traffic to the ridiculously inaccessible arena was so terrible.