Downton Abbey Season 6 - PBS broadcast

[Tinami Amori]

Mary is married to a used car salesman.

Edith is a marchioness. Higher rank than earl/countess.

I'm happy

Actually..... Mary learns on Jan. 01, 1926, that Fee Tail is no longer enforced, as the UK Parliament passed the Law of Property Act at the end of 1925, and she as an older daughter inherits the Downton Estate (unless her father disinherits her for some odd reason).

 

[VGThuy]

Oh man..."fee tail" and "fee simples" and the rest. I loved property law.

 

[algonquin]

Really enjoyed it. Confused though, was Mrs Hughes retiring as well?

 

[Tinami Amori]

Oh man..."fee tail" and "fee simples" and the rest. I loved property law.

I love property laws when there is property...

 

[vesperholly]

Actually..... Mary learns on Jan. 01, 1926, that Fee Tail is no longer enforced, as the UK Parliament passed the Law of Property Act at the end of 1925, and she as an older daughter inherits the Downton Estate (unless her father disinherits her for some odd reason).

Still won't make her Countess of Grantham.

 

[Tinami Amori]

Still won't make her Countess of Grantham.

Actually she will/can if her son, when of age, as a "substantive peer", grants her the "courtesy title".

Edith's "marquise" title is also a "courtesy title", by the way.

But! None of the titles will matter in just 14 years and after.... when operation Sea Lion/Blitz takes place...

 

[ssminnow]

Does anyone else think that Thomas looks a bit like Marco Rubio?

 

[Tinami Amori]

Does anyone else think that Thomas looks a bit like Marco Rubio?

similar face type, certainly. i thought Rob James-Collier (Thomas) looks more like, and lives like, James Franco... James-Collier also have university degrees coming out of his ears (in Finance, Management, Marketing) and also "just playing" with modeling and acting (like Franco), and by accident happened to be good at it, so keeps doing it for now....

 

[Spun Silver]

The most entertaining thing about the season was the Spratt-Denker rivalry and Violet's refusal to humor them. And her cracking up over Spratt's fashion advice.

Thomas isn't really a loyal replacement for Carson. After serving as an officer during WWI, he was devastated to be a footman again. That was part of his existential angst -- placelessness. He wasn't qualified to do anything else, so his only choice was to be the very best footman he could be, ie, a butler. He was more stuck between the past and the future than an emblem of the past. But he is still fairly young. In the movie sequel, he can be part of the 1920s car manufacturing boom with Tom and Henry. (Carson will be taken to London for an instant cure, and will resume his duties until he drops. I cannot believe in a happy cooperation between him and Barrow, now that the tables have turned. Carson was too mean to Barrow for too long.)

As for Bates looking unpleasant by the end, that actor turned up as a criminal in the TV series George Gently.

 

[skatesindreams]

This may be of interest:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/07/a...ey-finale-julian-fellowes-interview.html?_r=0

 

[Jenny]

I enjoy this recap - and there will be one more to wrap up the whole thing. Here's an interesting excerpt, further to our discussion about Carson's condition:

When Carson first developed the tremor and called it ‘the Palsy’, I thought this must be the 1925 term for Parkinson’s disease, so I did a little research, and it turns out it’s not. It actually refers to something called ‘Essential Tremor’, a condition that Julian Fellowes now has as well. Essential Tremor, (often called ET), affects about four out of one hundred people over the age of 40. There is no cure and it can become so bad that the entire body shakes. It differs from Parkinson’s in that ET is an action tremor while Parkinson’s is a resting tremor. Lord Fellowes is committed to raising awareness and helping others, and has recently become the President of Britain’s National Tremor Foundation. Probably the best known person with ET was Katherine Hepburn. She lived a long, fulfilling life, despite her ET which doesn’t only bode well for Lord Fellowes, but for the possibility of Carson still being around and kicking if that rumored Downton Abbey film ever comes to be – and that’s a very good thing. On another note: The fact that Lord Fellowes gave his condition to Carson makes me wonder: Has Carson been Julian Fellowes’ alter ego all along? Hmmm…

 

[pollyanna]

Looks like there is a "blossoming romance" between Laura "Edith" Carmichael and Michael "Andy" Fox.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbi...ael-Michael-Fox-enjoy-blossoming-romance.html

 

[Coco]

Oh and another thing...we know it was unusual for women in service to have babies, but would it have even been possible for Baby Bates to be in the nursery with Master George and the like?

Or was Mary just being shrewd about a) keeping her lady's maid and b) testing out nannies for Baby Talbert?

 

[Jenny]

Can't speak for these times, but historically it was possible, sort of. Henry VIII put several of his childhood nursery friends into positions of power, notably Charles Brandon, son of Henry VII's standard bearer, who eventually became the Duke of Suffolk. Not exactly the child of a servant, but definitely someone well beneath his station.

One might guess that even if Baby Bates wasn't in the full time care of the Downton nannies, that he would at least know the Downton kids well, and develop close relationships with them. If times weren't about to change, I imagine he might have grown up to be the future Earl George's trusted friend, and likely gain a position in the household - if not valet/butler then something on the estate.

 

[cygnus]

Actually she will/can if her son, when of age, as a "substantive peer", grants her the "courtesy title".

Edith's "marquise" title is also a "courtesy title", by the way.

But! None of the titles will matter in just 14 years and after.... when operation Sea Lion/Blitz takes place...

Actually, no he wouldn't have that power. If he had siblings, they would have courtesy titles as if their father had been an earl, but that does not extend to a parent. Even Queen Victoria, who succeeded her uncle, could not have given her mother the title of "Queen Mother" (much to her mother's chagrin), as she had never been an actual queen consort. (Of course QV was not on good terms with her mother when she succeeded, so she may have been happy about this).

 

[cygnus]

Oh and another thing...we know it was unusual for women in service to have babies, but would it have even been possible for Baby Bates to be in the nursery with Master George and the like?

Or was Mary just being shrewd about a) keeping her lady's maid and b) testing out nannies for Baby Talbert?

In earlier times, when wet nurses were in vogue, an upper crust child was often brought up with the wet nurse's child- they were informally known as "milk brothers". Of course, this was out of vogue by the 1920s, but there were precedents.

 

[skategal]

Really enjoyed it. Confused though, was Mrs Hughes retiring as well?

No. It was said that Mrs Hughes would be continuing her duties at the estate.

I liked the finale too. But still don't like Henry.

But wheeeee for Sprat, Thomas and Edith.

 

[maatTheViking]

I did enjoy the finale, though my internet was really crappy for some reason. I have to re-watch to see the dress details.

neatly wrapped up, but a little crazy. I highly doubt that about-to-give-birth Anna would have had the time to take 30 min out of a wedding day! to style Daisy's hair ! (that she wanted to do it was very Anna though).

So happy for Edith.

I think Thomas forgave Carson when he sounded proud of him.
I do agree it was so odd they were trying to get rid of him. They must have realized that Carson could not be a butler forever, and Thomas was the most logical successor? Even with no other job, Mosely wasn't much younger. If Mary intends to keep Downton running, she would realize she would need a butler?

As for Anna and Mr Bates, they did not name the baby. I am guessing it was not unusual to wait with naming for a little bit - I was definitely surprised that in US you have to name the baby before you leave the hospital.

Btw I don't know my British history - would George grow up and keep his title? Are there still Marquis? Will Edith & Berties children get titled and run the castle?


I really wish they had done Daisy's story different. I had hoped she had left to be a cook at a fancy place in London a couple of seasons ago, or that she had wanted to use her education for something? it seems she will be kitchenmaid/pig farmer lady forever. I found her story line... odd? the endless needyness and boytrouble kind stopped being interesting.

Same with Thomas, I think his character ping ponged back and forth between meanness and deserving of pity until this very last season. I do think some of the shows characters became to 'stuck' in their roles, with only changing in the last season.



Over all though, it was a good series. And while I would like an 'epilogue' look to the future, I think it was good it didn't go on for too long, it was close to becoming a caricature of itself.

 

[Artemis@BC]

Oh and another thing...we know it was unusual for women in service to have babies, but would it have even been possible for Baby Bates to be in the nursery with Master George and the like?

Or was Mary just being shrewd about a) keeping her lady's maid and b) testing out nannies for Baby Talbert?

I think it would be highly unusual. I think a more usual response in the very uncommon circumstances of a woman in service continuing work would be to find a local farmer's wife to care for the child during the day (and we know how well that went with Mrs Pigfarmer!), or to bring in a spinster relative.

However while I don't doubt Mary's real affection for and generosity toward Anna, I think her motives are at least in part self-serving: she wants to keep her on as a maid. Test-driving nannies for Baby Talbert wouldn't be an issue, they already have a nanny and a nursery maid looking after the existing 3 Downton children (soon to be 2 with the departure of Marigold).

 

[Artemis@BC]

Btw I don't know my British history - would George grow up and keep his title? Are there still Marquis? Will Edith & Berties children get titled and run the castle?

Both Robert's and Bertie's titles are hereditary, so yes, their respective heirs will inherit the titles, and their heirs, and so on, until the end of time or until the UK decides to abolish such things.

Even if some economic circumstances cause the Crawleys to lose Downton Abbey and the estate (which, if left in Robert's hands, would have been an almost certainty!), the earldom will still exist and George and his heirs will still be known as Earl of Grantham.

 

[skatesindreams]

Here is the post-Dowtown podcast, with Julian Fellowes
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/masterpiece...f42d31&elqaid=3228&elqat=1&elqCampaignId=1620

US only.

 

[Jenny]

I had the impression that Marquess was a relatively rare title, but it appears there are a ton of them living today - http://thepeerage.com/index_marquess.htm

Interesting to note that Anne Boleyn was the first and only Marquess of Pembroke. Can't remember the details but I think he gave her the title to give her rank that would allow her certain status and privileges as his mistress and then wife. Her father was an Earl, but not a hereditary one (Henry VIII dished out titles like candy; his daughter Elizabeth I did too, but almost always of much lower rank to maintain her power).

 

[gkelly]

Here's a summary review that focuses on a lot of the limitations in the storytelling, with which I largely agree.

 

[danceronice]

Well, he did save Lady Edith from the fire in her room, so one would hope that that counts for something.

I totally forgot all about that. Even though I think someone mentioned it last episode. I just was so not interested in that season....

And now I realize I have nothing to watch. When is "Call the Midwife" back?

Coco makes a really good point about something I had thought of earlier this season--I was wondering at one point how much of Mary's romantic dithering got downplayed or restrained because Michelle Dockery had a real-world tragedy going on? Rather like I suspect Isobel-Dr. Clarkson got scuttled abruptly when his wife committed suicide right around the time that plot got rolling? But Mary couldn't really get ignored so they toned it down and reminded us a little "Hey, she'd be upset especially about the cars thing since her true love DIED in one".

 

[skatesindreams]

The podcast indicates that Fellowes is at least thinking about storylines for the future.

 

[danceronice]

I had the impression that Marquess was a relatively rare title, but it appears there are a ton of them living today - http://thepeerage.com/index_marquess.htm

Interesting to note that Anne Boleyn was the first and only Marquess of Pembroke. Can't remember the details but I think he gave her the title to give her rank that would allow her certain status and privileges as his mistress and then wife. Her father was an Earl, but not a hereditary one (Henry VIII dished out titles like candy; his daughter Elizabeth I did too, but almost always of much lower rank to maintain her power).

The bizarre thing about Anne Boleyn's title is that "Marquess" is a MALE title. Edith is a Marchioness now and that's the feminine. Henry didn't just give Anne a very high-ranking title, he gave her rank equivalent to men, and she was never addressed by the female variant. It would be like naming a woman Duke rather than Duchess.

 

[cygnus]

I had the impression that Marquess was a relatively rare title, but it appears there are a ton of them living today - http://thepeerage.com/index_marquess.htm

Interesting to note that Anne Boleyn was the first and only Marquess of Pembroke. Can't remember the details but I think he gave her the title to give her rank that would allow her certain status and privileges as his mistress and then wife. Her father was an Earl, but not a hereditary one (Henry VIII dished out titles like candy; his daughter Elizabeth I did too, but almost always of much lower rank to maintain her power).

Anne Boleyn's father's title would have been hereditary, actually. He was created Earl of Wiltshire and Viscount Rochford by Henry Vlll, presumably as a reward for his daughter's "service" to the crown. His son George, as his heir, used the secondary title Viscount Rochford, as is the custom for direct heirs. But as things turned out, George was executed along with Anne for treason, so there was no heir to his title when he died, and the line ended.

He also made a claim for the Earldom of Ormond, but the claim was complicated and I don't think he was successful in the long run.

 

[Tinami Amori]

Actually, no he wouldn't have that power. If he had siblings, they would have courtesy titles as if their father had been an earl, but that does not extend to a parent. Even Queen Victoria, who succeeded her uncle, could not have given her mother the title of "Queen Mother" (much to her mother's chagrin), as she had never been an actual queen consort. (Of course QV was not on good terms with her mother when she succeeded, so she may have been happy about this).

I am pretty sure that British peerage rules for Royalty and Nobility are somewhat different. Plus, Victoria's mother, Princess of Leningen (?), had a rather complicated past in terms of marriages, geography, titles and ranks (in a given system). Also, as you mentioned, Victoria and her mother were not on best terms to say the least, which leads to conclusion that Victoria would seek a reason not to grant her the Queen Mother title, rather than look for loopholes to do so.

Lady Mary's son (what ever that shrimp's name is), is not a "royalty" but "nobility", with direct lineage as a grand-son of Robert from his oldest daughter, is a "substantive peer". Substantive peers were/are allowed to grant "courtesy titles" to immediate family members. I am 95% sure that is correct.

However, if you have information that it is not correct, i would luuuuuuve to see it, because i love this segment of european and british history, and any info would help.

 

[Artemis@BC]

And now I realize I have nothing to watch. When is "Call the Midwife" back?

April 3.

 

[Jenny]

cygnus, I meant that Anne's father did not inherit the title himself - Henry gave it to him.

Other than her own immediate family, it would be interesting to know how many titles the current Queen has bestowed. I know of Margaret Thatcher being made a Baroness, but not of any others.

On that note, given that this is what we're now talking about, it's too bad that we didn't get a bit more of this level of nobility during the series. It makes sense that Robert was just one of many, many titled people (and relatively minor by the family's lack of interaction with other nobility) for the purposes of the story, but methinks we might have all enjoyed just a bit more of Edith's grand new life, no? A few more balls and big dinners and weekend shooting parties and grand houses?