Fire in Notre Dame Cathedral

ilovepaydays said:
Thanks for the information. :) I guess I was mixed up because of how church property and state is managed in the U.S.

I believe the only thing we have that’s remotely close to a cathedral like Notre Dame is Washington National Cathedral in DC and it’s 100% privately owned and operated by the Episcopal Diocese of Washington. I’m pretty sure that even includes state funerals that happen there.
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I know Florida has a church that is older than the Washington National Cathedral. San Antonio has a San Fernando and the Missions that are certainly older too. The Missions are a national park, world Heritage site, and active parishes. San Fernando is certainly though owned by the Catholic Church.
 
misskarne said:
Actually, it will be. There is a whole plantation of trees that were planted exactly for this purpose.

Here's a fascinating twitter thread that explains a lot.

With that said...like Sharpie, I'm turning my nose up a bit at all the millionaires suddenly offering money. I'm furious that our government - in caretaker mode because of the election - is talking about some kind of donation. How about we make that corrupt corporation the Catholic Church open it's overfilled coffers insteadCVa
misskarne said:
Actually, it will be. There is a whole plantation of trees that were planted exactly for this purpose.

Here's a fascinating twitter thread that explains a lot.

With that said...like Sharpie, I'm turning my nose up a bit at all the millionaires suddenly offering money. I'm furious that our government - in caretaker mode because of the election - is talking about some kind of donation. How about we make that corrupt corporation the Catholic Church open it's overfilled coffers instead?
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I am certainly think the Catholic Church should contribute to it's rebuilding and most certainly will. But if the state owns the building than the state bares responsibility for the building too. It cannot be both ways.

We own the building and get control of it and gain from the tourism but we won’t contribute to it’s upkeep. It shouldn’t work that way.

Not to mention, there is absolute corruption in Catholicism, but we do have things like Catholic Relief services and other things.

Donations will be great because it will allow the State to still help with their responsibilities and the Catholic Church to do the same.
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skatingguy said:
I was referring more to the need for the renovations, which it is my understanding were put off for many years because it was difficult to secure the financing to complete them, and so by the time they'd started the job was much bigger. Money is, quite understandably, pouring in now - almost half a billion dollars so far has been pledged so far from around the world - and maybe we can look at other historic sites that are in need of repair and do what is required before something like this happens.
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I think the fire would have started one way or another though. It seems that it wasn't related to the condition the church was in but generally, to construction work.
 
When we were in Europe, it seemed like many churches were in constant restoration. In fact the cathedral in Colone (spelled wrong, not at home to reference stuff), the guide told us they just keep circling the building in restoration. That funds came from the tourist "donations", state funds and foundation monies.

I can't remember the Notre Dame Cathedral but believe that 2 years ago it was undergoing restoration stuff. It's ongoing with older larger churches.

The amount of money raised is incredible and I feel a bit like Sharpie, there is a lot of poverty out there. And from our visit to the Vatican, lots of wealth in the Catholic Church - it was unbelievable what the Church owns in artifacts and money.
 
victorskid said:
Emmanuel Macron has announced that he wishes to see Notre Dame rebuilt in 5 years! Have faith @cholla :)
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In what crazy form will it be rebuilt? Five years to rebuild? State ownership - State funding - The PC way. We can’t offend anyone. I may be pleasantly surprised, so I’ll keep an open mind😉.
 
once_upon said:
When we were in Europe, it seemed like many churches were in constant restoration. In fact the cathedral in Colone (spelled wrong, not at home to reference stuff), the guide told us they just keep circling the building in restoration. That funds came from the tourist "donations", state funds and foundation monies.

I can't remember the Notre Dame Cathedral but believe that 2 years ago it was undergoing restoration stuff. It's ongoing with older larger churches.

The amount of money raised is incredible and I feel a bit like Sharpie, there is a lot of poverty out there. And from our visit to the Vatican, lots of wealth in the Catholic Church - it was unbelievable what the Church owns in artifacts and money.
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Yes but the artifacts owned are also in the Church’s care. Some of those artifacts are Italian National Treasures too. I read an article about how a German donated some art to the Church and so a cardinal wanted to give him a small artifact the Italian government freaked out and wouldn’t let him leave with it. There is wealth but that art staying in the Vatican makes it available to all it may not be if it’s to the highest bidder.

Not to mention renovation projects give people jobs which allows then to feed their families.
 
"Incroyable! One of our members of the @GMHistoriques found in the rubble the Rooster from the top of the [collapsed] spire of #NotreDame": https://twitter.com/chanutj/status/1118191122340302850

Article in French: http://www.lefigaro.fr/culture/notre-dame-le-coq-de-la-fleche-retrouve-parmi-les-decombres-20190416
Work of the architect Viollet-le-Duc, the rooster contains three relics: a parcel of the Holy Crown of Thorns, a relic of Saint Denis and one of Saint Genevieve. It was Cardinal Verdier, Archbishop of Paris, who placed them on October 25, 1935, to make the arrow "a spiritual lightning rod". Patrick Chauvet, rector of the cathedral of Paris, confirmed that the rooster was well and truly found but could not assure that the relics were still there. According to a source in the Ministry of Culture quoted in Le Parisien, "it is dented but probably restorable... it has not yet been possible to verify if the relics are still there".
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I just read that the three black churches that were recently burned saw a spike in donations after the Notre Dame fire. Apparently, when it was pointed out that those church burnings hadn't gotten nearly as much attention as this one, people took it to heart and started giving. I'm glad that something good came out of something terrible.
 
Frau Muller said:
In what crazy form will it be rebuilt? Five years to rebuild? State ownership - State funding -
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The State can't afford to fund the restoration on its own. More than 700 million € have always been offered from private funds. I think it will be 50/50 state/private.

BTW I'm very conflicted : I'm devastated that ND went partly in flames, but I wish billionaires could be as quick to offer money to human causes. 14% of French people live below poverty line. It doesn't mean I'm opposed to their funding of ND restoration. I just think they could help in more ways then one. It's not like they cannot afford it.


The PC way. We can’t offend anyone.
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That's not very French :lol: French don't mind offending anyone and even everyone ;)

I may be pleasantly surprised, so I’ll keep an open mind😉.
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I sincerely hope we won't see something Pyramide du Louvre-like. I just hate it :( I'm awfully "rétrograde" !

Just heard on the radio that the 1st estimate for the restoration is € 1 billion...
 
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Macron's comments that Notre Dame will be rebuilt in 5 years and 'even more beautiful' than before both worry and scare me. It is a job that can't be rushed. The stabilisation of the building alone could take months and only then can they start to figure out how best to restore the cathedral. A building of that magnitude and scale needs care and attention when restoring and rebuilding. York Minister here in the UK - a building of similar age and made of similar materials but not the size - was partially destroyed by a lightening strike in 1984 and took approx. 4 years to rebuild - and the damage was only about 1/5 of what Notre Dame has suffered and as I said was no where near as high or wide. How Macron expects it to be done in 5 years makes no sense to me at all. And his 'even more beautiful' comment sends shivers of fear through me as the building was - and is - beautiful.

And add me to those who are not comfortable with all the money suddenly appearing to restore the cathedral when there are so many homeless and hungry. Feeding and helping to home those won't get your name in the History books but helping restore Notre Dame will - go figure!!
 
Lorac said:
And add me to those who are not comfortable with all the money suddenly appearing to restore the cathedral when there are so many homeless and hungry. Feeding and helping to home those won't get your name in the History books but helping restore Notre Dame will - go figure!!
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It's a high profile in-your-face tragedy involving a beloved world treasure. And it's getting a lot of press.

Tragedies and bad situations that get a lot of publicity tend to attract attention and resources. Just look at how on-line communities mobilize to help people in need who post Go Fund Me campaigns. We've mobilized to do so here on FSU.

Meanwhile, so many of the people suffering from poverty and war throughout the world remain without the help they need. :wuzrobbed

Also, it's possible that some of the billionaires who giving money to the restoration of Notre Dame may also give to the homeless and hungry. Without knowing who they are and what they do with their wealth in terms of charity, we don't know for sure.
 
I actually hope it will be rebuilt differently. I wasn't really fond of the spire and the roof was kind of just a roof. Am thrilled the interior was not hurt much. In my books that and the contraforces are the most beautiful parts of ND and they survived!

allezfred said:
While I can appreciate the historical significance of Notre Dame, I don’t find it particularly beautiful as a building. Prefer Sacré-Cœur. #Philistine :shuffle:
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You lack taste. Sacre Coeur. Pfffff
 
skatingguy said:
Notre Dame is state owned, and has been for years.
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cholla said:
The State can't afford to fund the restoration on its own. More than 700 million € have always been offered from private funds. I think it will be 50/50 state/private.

BTW I'm very conflicted : I'm devastated that ND went partly in flames, but I wish billionaires could be as quick to offer money to human causes. 14% of French people live below poverty line. It doesn't mean I'm opposed to their funding of ND restoration. I just think they could help in more ways then one. It's not like they cannot afford it.


That's not very French :lol: French don't mind offending anyone and even everyone ;)

I sincerely hope we won't see something Pyramide du Louvre-like. I just hate it :( I'm awfully "rétrograde" !

Just heard on the radio that the 1st estimate for the restoration is € 1 billion...
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I don’t think the state should have to fund the whole thing either and agree the Church should contribute. Of course the Catholic Church will and Catholics around the world.

But I don’t care for the idea that we are going to take your property but charge you for the entire upkeep. It’s not like the Church got a say when the state declared themselves owners. And as non owners won’t have full control over renovations.

So I don't disagree we should contribute, but I take issue with we will make the Catholic Church, when well we don't own the property that was unilaterally taken away. I see the point of the State owning the historical buildings but ownership comes with responsibility.
And yes hopefully those who donate also do human causes too. Perhaps some jobs ear marked for low income could be created out of this?
 
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allezfred said:
While I can appreciate the historical significance of Notre Dame, I don’t find it particularly beautiful as a building. Prefer Sacré-Cœur. #Philistine :shuffle:
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Are you related to my youngest brother? He made similar comments yesterday on my Facebook - though you at least acknowledge the historical significance of Notre Dame.
 
cholla said:
Same here :yikes:It will be ND de Paris or a Star is Born. Or a mash/up medley of both :scream: :lol:
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Sleep easy tonight, at least for the RD: ISU has already explicitly said no to a Star is Born and I can’t think of any song from Notre Dame de Paris that meets the tempo requirements.
 
Those big donations have been raising eyebrows in France too, especially because they can benefit from big tax breaks (66% in France). Today, Pinault (Salma Hayek's husband) announced he was waiving the tax breaks. I hope for the other French donators to do the same.
 
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I must be in the minority, but I don’t feel we should criticise the millionaires/billionaires for pledging money towards rebuilding Notre Dame. Sure, someone may say that they choose to spend money on a building rather than helping homeless and hungry people who are in desperate situations, but the bottom line is it is their money. They have the right to spend it however they want to, and I think it is nice of them to support something that brings joy to millions of people who will be able to visit Notre Dame, rather than spending it on yet another car, more holidays, designer clothes etc.

And that they get huge tax break? That’s not their fault, that’s the government that could change the law. Nevertheless, people should be happy that they are willing to put their hands in their pocket. I am pretty sure they could find much worse cause, more ‘selfish’ cause then contributing to rebuild national historic treasure.
 
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