Gracie Gold set to return

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Ashley withdrew in the middle of her long program. I think Gracie's situation is different. I would think USFSA would prefer that she not skate until she can make a credible showing.

That's what I'm saying… That's my point.

Ashley went out there and at least attempted the skate. Gracie already in Russia just withdrew. USFSA admittedly did not like that Ashley withdrew even with an attempt. There was no attempt from Gracie. I think would have been wayyyy better To do a B or one of the last remaining Bs in the next few weeks ... yet she withdrew before the free program. Looking at some of the free skate scores I'm not even convinced Gracie would have finished last in the free in Russia.

 

[NAOTMAA]

Only Gracie herself knows what she can and can't do and what she is ready for or isn't ready for. Maybe mentally she just wasn't.

I suppose she thought she was more ready then she actually was and the SP was a little bit of a shock for her so she pulled out of the free before there was anymore personal damage. I would hope she went to Russia intending to do both programs and wasn't planning on just the SP and doing it as a way to get directly to Nationals without going through regionals cause that would suck.

I personally would have liked to see her do the free regardless of how bad she might be in it. It would have been valuable experience that private practice cannot give. The free after all is a different animal then the short. Plus it gives her a chance to experience a full competition. But like I said on top only she knows what she's ready for mentally and maybe after the SP she wasn't.

I think now she knows where she stands and will do what is best for her accordingly in the coming weeks. She placed another building block and that's important.

 

[analia]

I think this whole process is actually well-managed by her team and turned out exactly as planned. She gets a bye to nationals and a lot of sympathy points. There is nothing embarrassing about what she did either. Wasn't like she stole anyone's spot. There were only 10 ladies on the start list. She used the rules to her advantage. Now nationals is a totally different story. Her basic skating still looks strong. Jumps are not there at all and (hopefully) she knows it.

I don't think it's a joke what she put on her ISU profile. People make assumption she has a typical figure skater ED, but her problem seems to be stress overeating, which is not at all the same as the other type of ED and more common among regular people than figure skaters. I feel that she often hints at it but no one wants to listen. It's difficult to show your true self in USA's highly perverse emotion management culture. The word healthy is thrown around so much as if there is really such a thing as perfect mental health and one should feel happy and content all the time even if your life is evidently not going well. It's too high of a standard to ask from a human being not on anti-depressants. Positivity coercion is a vile thing. I hope she understands her real situation and don't actually fall for the narrative her team is feeding the public. Either you can jump triples and do a full program or you can't. Other factors don't play into it.

 

[NAOTMAA]

I suppose when all is said and done considering her issues making her comeback at a major GP event wasn't the wisest thing on her teams part. They should have started her at smaller B competitions and build to bigger ones later on. You don't do your testing at the big places. It almost sounds like false or delusional hope from the people around her that things would click fast.

 

[Tinami Amori]

I think this whole process is actually well-managed by her team and turned out exactly as planned. She gets a bye to nationals and a lot of sympathy points. There is nothing embarrassing about what she did either.

Then she needs to pay back to the organizers for a) all the tickets they bought for her team, b) hotel rooms they paid for... at least that. GP organizers are not a charity... they are not obligated to contribute to anyone's "mental health issues" or pay for a free vacation to Russia..

 

[Coco]

@Tinami Amori , I think your sentiment is misplaced. The Russian Federation knew her circumstances, and the ISU - when they made the comeback rule - could have easily envisioned this scenario. Yet they selected her and didn't make it conditional.

Your arguments make sense at many levels of sport, but at this level, more people may have tuned in to see her than whoever else would have been selected. So the organizers may have been better off with Gold.

 

[puglover]

Well, hindsight is 20/20. None of us actually know what they expected out of this competition but her own words seem to convey they had hoped for a better skate and that is why she withdrew from the free skate. Now is when she really needs support!!

 

[Tavi]

The key words are "your time and money"... But if one accepts a responsibility of appearing and performing at a commercial event, which has a certain minimum of expectations for the performer, and that person knows in advance that realistically he/she can not meet these expectations, then he/she is spending others' time and money without delivering the minimum expected.

ISU has criteria, tech minimums which each skater should qualify in before he/she can skate in any major events, GP is one of them. The last deadline to withdraw from a GP event (outside of emergency or injury) is 2 weeks ahead of the event.

Gracie maybe dealing with issues, but she is not insane not to have known 2 weeks before this GP that she does NOT have the minimum content expected in this level of competition. I don't know what was in her head, but she certainly was thinking of "what's good for her", and not the obligations she accepted when agreed to attend.

In plane terms: she accepted a contract knowing in advance that she can't comply with it. She wasted "others money and time" and took up a spot which could be used for a more ready skater.


That's an awful and an irresponsible phrase, unless it ends with "and if the net does not appear, i have the means to deal with the consequences of my fall"..

She leaped alright into this GP... Organizers bought her tickets, paid for her hotel, spent administrative and operational resources on her.... and yet she knew it would take a miracle for her to have a minimum decent skate.. But she did it anyway, because it's good for her issues, without thinking what it costs others.[/

I’m sorry, but there is no such commercial contract, express or implied, between Gracie and the organizers of Rostelecom. Everything she is required to do, and they are required to do, is set forth in the GP and Rostelecom announcements. The organizers chose her under the comeback provision, which relies on results in 2016 and 2017. They could have found out she didn’t start training until April - it’s not like her condition was a secret - and drawn their own conclusions before inviting her. If they didn’t, that’s on them.

 

[Tinami Amori]

@Tinami Amori , I think your sentiment is misplaced. The Russian Federation knew her circumstances, and the ISU - when they made the comeback rule - could have easily envisioned this scenario. Yet they selected her and didn't make it conditional.

Your arguments make sense at many levels of sport, but at this level, more people may have tuned in to see her than whoever else would have been selected. So the organizers may have been better off with Gold.

I doubt Rus Fed/ISU knew about Gracie any more than "she took time off due to a personal issue". Rus Feds don't read forums about foreign skaters, many admins don't even speak english well enough, and the fans don't send them reports.

Further more, none of her US fans, living in USA and reading her IG and talking to people who train at the same rink, knew until this Wed. what her actual condition is. None of knew how much she can do on the ice. Russian Feds could not have known more than we do here.

The assumption is in any case, a skater is invited, expected to perform certain amount on certain minimum level, and if circumstances prevent him/her, then notify the organizers 2 weeks in advance (unless something unexpected happens).

Fed/Organizer offers a contract to perform, they pay expenses, skater comes and skates as expected. It is a normal assumption that if a skater is uncertain of his ability to fulfill his/her obligation, he/she would have the decency to inform and to withdraw.

Given Gracie's physical condition and level of athletic competency on Wed. morning practice, it is clear she knew 2 weeks prior to that what her condition was/is. She obviously decided that she'll just come and see what happens, maybe it will be good for her somehow, and if not, well it was a nice trip to Russia. She did what's convenient for her, without considering the expenses that comes with obligations.

 

[Frau Muller]

...
Gracie wouldn't have qualified out of any Sectional...Her Rostelecom SP would have put her in 12th place at Pacific Coasts, 15th at Easterns and 14th at Midwesterns.

.....

<THIS. Most enlightening factoids in this thread.

That said, let’s enjoy Gracie’s artistry at Nationals and to heck with the placement. I especially look forward to seeing her complete LP, with full costume & makeup, since we only saw bits at the Rostelecom practice.

 

[hanca]

We’re back to the skater falls and bangs her head into the boards and has a concussion. But under your scenario she would have to skate, Even if it can result in long-term injury because otherwise she wouldn’t get a bye. Be careful what you wish for


It’s hardly the end of the world out of a couple of people show up in Detroit hope maybe shouldn’t be there.

Well, what happens if a skater who is qualifying in sectionals bangs her head and has to withdraw? The skater won’t qualify for the nationals. Sad but can happen and it’s life. Similarly as the skater who has the flu or any other illness and misses the qualifier for health reason. So why it should be different for a skater who is qualifying through GP?

 

[Teamgracie]

Then she needs to pay back to the organizers for a) all the tickets they bought for her team, b) hotel rooms they paid for... at least that. GP organizers are not a charity... they are not obligated to contribute to anyone's "mental health issues" or pay for a free vacation to Russia..

Oh, get off your high and mighty throne miss judge. Have some decency and respect for a human being. As they say in the south, bless your heart sweetie

 

[Carolla5501]

Folks, you do realize that she was selected for the event in Russia because they figured she wouldn’t be a threat the skaters thr organizers wanted to win, don’t you?

 

[VGThuy]

I think with these types of competitions, there is a risk involved when you invite high-level athletes. This isn't the same as performing in a show and a performer is a no-show with no reason. I think it's different and should be different for a high-level competition. Injuries and withdrawals will happen, and if Feds/organizers can bring forth a lawsuit against athletes for withdrawing or skating badly, then that opens up a whole new can of worms and a slippery slope. In competition, you're not promised a good show from specific performers, just that a competition will happen. Gracie did show up, practiced, and competed in the SP. She withdrew from the LP after realizing she wasn't ready to compete as she thought she would have been. It happens. Some times skaters go out there and have really bad performances and sometimes they expect to given how they are training and what injuries they are facing but they want to see if they can somehow make it through a competition. Some times they can pull off a great performance despite those things. Gracie was doing triples in practice and probably thought she could make it through a SP and a LP. After that particular SP performance, she realized it was best for her to withdraw.

 

[Vash01]

I doubt Rus Fed/ISU knew about Gracie any more than "she took time off due to a personal issue". Rus Feds don't read forums about foreign skaters, many admins don't even speak english well enough, and the fans don't send them reports.

Further more, none of her US fans, living in USA and reading her IG and talking to people who train at the same rink, knew until this Wed. what her actual condition is. None of knew how much she can do on the ice. Russian Feds could not have known more than we do here.

The assumption is in any case, a skater is invited, expected to perform certain amount on certain minimum level, and if circumstances prevent him/her, then notify the organizers 2 weeks in advance (unless something unexpected happens).

Fed/Organizer offers a contract to perform, they pay expenses, skater comes and skates as expected. It is a normal assumption that if a skater is uncertain of his ability to fulfill his/her obligation, he/she would have the decency to inform and to withdraw.

Given Gracie's physical condition and level of athletic competency on Wed. morning practice, it is clear she knew 2 weeks prior to that what her condition was/is. She obviously decided that she'll just come and see what happens, maybe it will be good for her somehow, and if not, well it was a nice trip to Russia. She did what's convenient for her, without considering the expenses that comes with obligations.

I strongly disagree with this POV. No organization can predict how a skater will perform. A top skater can have a meltdown at any time. We don't always see skaters skating their best. It is a chance the audience takes when they buy the tickets. A competition is not like a ticket to the ballet where you have certain expectations about the performance.

The only obligations Gracie has are to herself at this point. She showed up, went to practices, and skated the SP. She is not responsible for expenses to either the RSF or the USFSA. I am sure she did not do this just to "get a nice trip to Russia" as you insinuated. That is a terrible accusation against Any skater - healthy or unhealthy. Why should she not do something that is convenient? It was an opportunity to test herself in a competition environment. A competition tells an athlete where he or she is and what to do next. It is ridiculous to criticize her for entering the competition. May be she overestimated herself, but people overestimate themselves many times.

 

[Deleted member 53443]

The smartest person around Gracie right now is Gracie herself. Anyone who watched that interview that got pulled saw an amazingly emotionally insightful and mature young woman.

Eating disorders thrive in secrecy; there is a tremendous amount of shame involved. That Gracie was able to haul herself out of the ice in her current condition to me was a big middle finger to her issues. I saw that as a young woman who was going to tackle her demons head on, and not be afraid to fail at first.

EDs are all about control and perfection. For Gracie to put herself in a situation in which she was so clearly not in control and so visibly exposed at the same time suggests to me that she has the capacity to fully recover. And whether this trip was ill-advised cannot be known yet. If it becomes defeating, then yes, it may have been ill-advised. But if it becomes the catalyst for Gracie to continue with her training, free of the mental anguish that she endured previously in her quest for nothing less than perfection, then this trip may very well prove to be the most successful competition in which she has yet participated.

ETA: Also from Gracie's pulled interview: "Leap and the net will appear." She talked about needing to move forward without certainty yet without fear of failure. Yeah, she clearly wasn't ready for this comp. But she didn't withdraw beforehand out of fear of failure. She put herself out there anyway. How many of us would have done the same?

You make many good points. About shame involved, secrecy, tackle demons and not letting fear of failure stop you.

But, if this is all about curing her eating disorders and mental health, I don't think a Grand Prix event is the right cycle. I work myself in a high performance level profession, and witness many young people with performance anxiety plus I deal with it myself from time to time. Building real confidence in yourself, being able to separate your performance from your value as a person has always been a step-by-step building process from what I experience. I have yet to see the method of going directly to the comfort zone of secrecy to walking out on a big stage to be a success. Unless she planned to withdraw from the FS, this was one more failure of that kind of thinking. It simply doesn't work, unless you are a freak with amazing nerves.

It sounds all well to go out on ice and "not care" about the result, just hail the effort made to get out there. But reality is more complex and humans are more fragile than that. You slowly build confidence, maturity and experience about your situation by starting small and going bigger. Experiences of failure on a big stage will in most cases have a net negative impact, the human psyche needs to get used to stressful situations little by little.

There is a difference in not being afraid to fail when you walk on stage, and not believing that you can avoid failure. If it's the second, do not tackle things too big, it will make things worse.

If skating makes GG happy, which I think it does, she should do it and do it again. But if she does it in an elite competitive environment, be wise and careful so it does not destroy that happiness.

 

[Tesla]

Why is there an argument? Gracie pulled out because of injury. Just because you can’t see it doesn’t mean she wasn’t injured.

 

[Spun Silver]

Why is there an argument? Gracie pulled out because of injury. Just because you can’t see it doesn’t mean she wasn’t injured.

That's not how she put it, though.
https://mobile.twitter.com/GraceEGold/status/1063856260154617862

 

[hanca]

Folks, you do realize that she was selected for the event in Russia because they figured she wouldn’t be a threat the skaters thr organizers wanted to win, don’t you?

Yes, I am absolutely sure that Russian organisers were worried about someone defeating their skater! Russia has such a strong ladies field that I don’t think they have to worry.

 

[vesperholly]

We’re back to the skater falls and bangs her head into the boards and has a concussion. But under your scenario she would have to skate, Even if it can result in long-term injury because otherwise she wouldn’t get a bye. Be careful what you wish for

It’s hardly the end of the world out of a couple of people show up in Detroit that maybe shouldn’t be there.

WTF? How did you get that from my post? Skaters who injure themselves should not skate.

If a skater injures themselves and is forced to withdraw from a qualifying event, they don't qualify. Sucks but it happens. There's a reason that USFS doesn't give injury byes.

 

[kwanfan1818]

ISU has criteria, tech minimums which each skater should qualify in before he/she can skate in any major events, GP is one of them.

That is not correct. Her spot was based on past performance, just like every other non-host spot on GP. Since she invoked the "comeback" clause in this case, like for split couples and host spots, there is no GP minimum requirement from any season; the requirement is a 1st-6th placement at Worlds in the last 10 years.

As a comeback skater, she was guaranteed nothing except "priority consideration" for up to two spots. The Russian Fed did not have to choose her; no Federation was obligated to choose her.

 

[tony]

Some of you are really unbelievable with your comments.

We don't know the full details about this situation and maybe we won't ever get them. Maybe Gracie thought she would be more competitive by the time mid November came around when she first received the Rostelecom invite-- remember it was a while ago (June?), and then maybe she thought to herself that she knew she wasn't 100% but she didn't want to be one of the several USFS skaters who have announced comebacks and then withdrew at the last moment before the competition- only for us to hear later that it probably was never the plan. Maybe she thought to herself 'Well I need to start somewhere'. Maybe she thought to herself 'I need to go out there and see if I can handle this situation again'.

I'm going to repeat this as I did in the Rostelecom thread- it was reported that she was landing triples in practice. She didn't show up here with the intention of bombing the short program, that's for sure, and she didn't show up planning to show all doubles and singles. Competitive pressure, whether you're a medal contender or not, can be there. She hadn't experienced it in almost 2 years and maybe she did realize after the short that she needed more time. Maybe she does have a slight injury. Maybe she is going to go back and re-evaluate.

There's too much focus on this and for some of you, it seems that you believe she was going to come back and be in gold medal contention from the beginning. No, she didn't make it through this competition. Does it mean her career is over? Absolutely not-- if she doesn't want it to be.

I saw people commenting that Savchenko was desperate and stupid in 2014 for deciding to skip shows with Szolkowy and focus on 2018. I saw people commenting that Tuktamysheva was desperate for continuing past last season. Just let people do things on their own agendas, and realize not every story is a straight line.

 

[Tesla]

That's not how she put it, though.
https://mobile.twitter.com/GraceEGold/status/1063856260154617862

Her tweets read as injury to me. She realized she wasn’t as mentally prepared/healed as she thought she was.

 

[ZilphaK]

ISU should take the reins on this and insist Gracie attend every International competition from here on out, even if it's just to scoot around the ice on her butt for 3 minutes. You just can't buy this kind of extended social media buzz without whacking someone on a knee. Gracie is a g-d marketing gold mine. She's worth every free hotel room, first class flight and caviar breakfast buffet. Give her a summer home on the Outer Banks and a lifelong pass to Disney World (the *real* one, not some European knock-off). She should show up at every competition, skate the SP and disappear, like Elvis, only to show up again on Twitter like the ice-skating world's answer to Andy Kaufman. I see movies and books and appearances on Ellen. Maybe a star in Hollywood and her face carved into Mount Rushmore. She'll make millions...no! Billions! And with her billions, she'll reveal the real conspiracy: buying the naming rights to Rostelecom and renaming it GRACIECOM. And everytime someone Googles any Russian figure skater's name, they'll be redirected to a photo of Gracie on the beach, holding a puppy, and laughing.

That's what I think this was all about.

ETA: Really, I agree with @Tony Wheeler

 

[StitchMonkey]

We’re back to the skater falls and bangs her head into the boards and has a concussion. But under your scenario she would have to skate, Even if it can result in long-term injury because otherwise she wouldn’t get a bye. Be careful what you wish for


It’s hardly the end of the world out of a couple of people show up in Detroit that maybe shouldn’t be there.

I recall a pairs team that entered Sectionals and some how had to compete (even though nationally we had too few spots) to qualify... so they went out, block everything, did a choreographic sequence and booked their ticket to nationals. Literally the only scored element was a choreographic sequence. Even with a concussion that could still be doable. Hell even with a broken limb that could be doable. So we could have a little more room than you think if people are ok with technicalities.

Ashley withdrew in the middle of her long program. I think Gracie's situation is different. I would think USFSA would prefer that she not skate until she can make a credible showing.

That's what I'm saying… That's my point.

Ashley went out there and at least attempted the skate. Gracie already in Russia just withdrew. USFSA admittedly did not like that Ashley withdrew even with an attempt. There was no attempt from Gracie. I think would have been wayyyy better To do a B or one of the last remaining Bs in the next few weeks ... yet she withdrew before the free program. Looking at some of the free skate scores I'm not even convinced Gracie would have finished last in the free in Russia.

This is part of the head scratcher for me... how is what Gracie did any better? Ashley tried... it was a no go. Honestly I think people were a bit harsh on her (and I also wonder if there was some fail communications but that is another topic). But i don't think Gracie did any better. A part of me kinda wishes USFS would be fair and treat them the same.

 

[Yazmeen]

Perhaps we should just ask Gracie to sign a personal check to @Tinami Amori and all others here who were so “offended” by her showing up and wasting their time and the Federation’s money, ad nauseum. Then they could all toast each other for their obvious superiority in knowing what she should have done vs what, God forbid, she and her coaches and the ACTUAL skating experts planned for.

 

[BittyBug]

I recall a pairs team that entered Sectionals and some how had to compete (even though nationally we had too few spots) to qualify... so they went out, block everything, did a choreographic sequence and booked their ticket to nationals. Literally the only scored element was a choreographic sequence.

It was Donlan and Speroff and one of them was injured. IIRC they had signed up for Sectionals even though there would be no more than 4 teams and as a result, they had to skate or they wouldn't qualify for nationals, so they basically just stroked around the ice. (I'm not sure if the rules are still like this, but at the time, if there would be 4 or fewer competitors in an event, the athletes could choose to skate or pass and still qualify for nationals, since by default, with at most 4 athletes, everyone would automatically qualify.)

 

[VGThuy]

This is part of the head scratcher for me... how is what Gracie did any better? Ashley tried... it was a no go. Honestly I think people were a bit harsh on her (and I also wonder if there was some fail communications but that is another topic). But i don't think Gracie did any better. A part of me kinda wishes USFS would be fair and treat them the same.

How are they treating them any different? Is Gracie going to be named on the Worlds team or something?

 

[Gr8sk891]

Perhaps we should just ask Gracie to sign a personal check to @Tinami Amori and all others here who were so “offended” by her showing up and wasting their time and the Federation’s money, ad nauseum. Then they could all toast each other for their obvious superiority in knowing what she should have done vs what, God forbid, she and her coaches and the ACTUAL skating experts planned for.

Her coaches are not experts if they let her turn up like that

 

[DimaToe]

Gracie Gold has been treated since the moment she showed any sign of brilliance as the savior or U.S. ladies skating. Maybe this happened for a reason, really back the F off everybody, those supposedly cheering for her and those that are being b!tches. Provide criticism, but don’t try to “protect” or be overly rude, it’s not that hard to figure out.