Gracie Gold set to return

[JeffClair1979]

YES!! ALL OF THIS! Thank you Tony, this needed to be said.

Ok I must have saved an earlier post, so ignore the quote above... skatingguy I don’t post often but apparently I liked your post at some point and saved it in my quotes and it automagically appeared in my quotes again

 

[Twizzler]

It was Donlan and Speroff and one of them was injured. IIRC they had signed up for Sectionals even though there would be no more than 4 teams and as a result, they had to skate or they wouldn't qualify for nationals, so they basically just stroked around the ice. (I'm not sure if the rules are still like this, but at the time, if there would be 4 or fewer competitors in an event, the athletes could choose to skate or pass and still qualify for nationals, since by default, with at most 4 athletes, everyone would automatically qualify.)

This is correct. There is an option to choose if you will compete if there are four or fewer skaters/teams. You are bound by your choice. If you choose yes and get injured, you still have to step on the ice and receive a score. If you don’t/can’t, the option to go to nationals is nullified.

If you choose no, and everyone else chooses yes, the competition will still be held. The other skaters must compete, but you would go straight to nationals.

 

[just tuned in]

Did I read correctly that Gracie could have used her ‘bye’ for a Grand Prix event next year instead of this year?

I think everyone agrees that Gracie was undertrained. There is some disagreement here as to whether it was wise/unwise to compete while undertrained. Gracie’s withdrawal from the FS lends credence to the idea that Gracie’s coaches perhaps did her a disservice by putting her on the ice too soon.

I think it would not be so horrible for her to have to qualify through regionals and sectionals, which she would have to do anyway, if she comes back next year.

 

[DimaToe]

@Clutz bringing up Todd and AOL.....honestly have you kept up with skating since 1999?

 

[coppertop1]

Comebacks don't just magically happen. They are difficult and often take an entire season. Go watch Kaetlyn Osmond's LP from 2015 Skate Canada, where she missed every jump or Irina Slutskaya at 2004 Worlds where she was ninth. Skaters have to find that competitive edge. It takes a while. Judging by all the negativity, some people seem to think she would just be back to her old self. These unrealistic expectations and complaining are part of the reason why she had mental health issues to begin with.

 

[soogar]

Honest to god, this is a repulsive post.

It’s a competition and I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect athletes to be able to deliver a minimum standard performance. In any other sport, if an athlete said that they weren’t trained and performed poorly, ticket holders would be pretty annoyed having to sit through this. The Grand Prix events aren’t some private playground. Only a few lucky skaters get invites and it’s not really fair that an athlete who isn’t up to perform and knows she’s not ready takes a spot that could have been assigned to another skater. I think the ISU should hold the USFS responsible for not monitoring its athlete.

I don’t know why people are talking about Todd Eldridge. Other than 1992 Olympics where he had a back injury, he never showed up to a competition completely unprepared. If she had skated that short program with legitimate triple jump and double axel attempts and fell on everything, I don’t think think people would have been hard on her at all. She really did not look ready. It looks like she hadn’t rehearsed full program run throughs at all.

 

[Clutz]

I don’t know why people are talking about Todd Eldridge.

Because people do not read or make intelligent statements based on what has actually been said. My original statement was in reference to admittingly coming to competitions when your ability to do something is below 50%.

 

[Clutz]

Oh, for heaven's sake.

Katarina Witt had bodacious ta-tas and landed jumps. I'm sure plenty other athletes have racks and use any variety of miracle fabrics (warning: video link NSFW) to corral them into more aerodynamic form.

Tonya Harding was out of shape and smoking and living on Hostess Twinkies and Slurpees, or some such nonsense, and landed monster 3lzs. There's a video of her from 2018 landing a 2S with enough airtime for a triple...and she has enormous knockers, makes Dolly Parton look like a boy.

You only prove my point. First, Witt didn't get the ladies until after she stopped competing in 1988 (God or Doctor is unknown). She was flat until then not to mention she was not being called upon to do triple triples (did she ever do anything harder than a 3toe2toe?). Tonya Harding was also flat until around 1993 and even then they weren't that big. Saying she can do a 2s today really means nothing.

 

[mjb52]

There was a time - perhaps it was a better time, perhaps just a different time - when the only people who saw the Grand Prix competitions were the people who bought tickets and attended. I remember not seeing programs until Olympics/Worlds IF even then, depending on the skaters' results. The level of scrutiny these skaters are under now seems really unhealthy to me, but there's no way to turn back the clock I guess.

 

[WillyElliot]

Gosh....As best I can remember, his only clean quad was at one of those made for tv competions. He never landed one at nationals or an ISU event.

But if we were using semantics, as your profile pic shows, he has landed a quad. It just was on his ass. No?

 

[Tavi]

It’s a competition and I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect athletes to be able to deliver a minimum standard performance. In any other sport, if an athlete said that they weren’t trained and performed poorly, ticket holders would be pretty annoyed having to sit through this. The Grand Prix events aren’t some private playground. Only a few lucky skaters get invites and it’s not really fair that an athlete who isn’t up to perform and knows she’s not ready takes a spot that could have been assigned to another skater. I think the ISU should hold the USFS responsible for not monitoring its athlete.

I don’t know why people are talking about Todd Eldridge. Other than 1992 Olympics where he had a back injury, he never showed up to a competition completely unprepared. If she had skated that short program with legitimate triple jump and double axel attempts and fell on everything, I don’t think think people would have been hard on her at all. She really did not look ready. It looks like she hadn’t rehearsed full program run throughs at all.

You and others are trying to impose your own shoulds and shouldn’ts on a system that already has rules. Read them. It’s too bad you don’t like the outcome, but your collective outrage that Gracie would dare to sully this “elite” competition with her presence and the repeated disdain for her body is tiresome, ungenerous, and misplaced, in my opinion. Try saving the outrage for something that really matters, like preventing a government from instituting deportation proceedings against toddlers and separating little tiny kids from their parents without - oops - keeping good records of who the parents are - or the equivalent horror in whatever country you live in.

 

[ZilphaK]

You only prove my point. First, Witt didn't get the ladies until after she stopped competing in 1988 (God or Doctor is unknown). She was flat until then not to mention she was not being called upon to do triple triples (did she ever do anything harder than a 3toe2toe?). Tonya Harding was also flat until around 1993 and even then they weren't that big. Saying she can do a 2s today really means nothing.

You said boobs can't jump. Unless you know their cup size, sit down. Boobs aren't ghosts that don't exist if you can't see them.

 

[MsZem]

Gracie's statements suggest that when she says she was unprepared, she means mentally as well as physically. Given that she was landing triples (not triplets, autocorrect) in practice, it's very likely that she and her coaching team assumed that she was physically able to compete, though not yet in top form - and that it would be good for her to try. The results indicated that she needs to work on both her conditioning and her mental approach, and get stronger physically so that she can be more confident mentally. It is a work in progress, and Gracie's honesty and transparency about the challenges she is dealing with are to be admired.

I wish her happier times both on and off the ice, and imagine most skating fans feel the same.

The discussion of skaters' breasts in this thread is in very poor taste.

 

[Aerobicidal]

At this point I'm not going to touch the discussion of Gracie Gold with a ten foot 1994 modem that I needed for my AOL dial up access, but . . .

Telling someone who is critical, angry, or irritated that they need to "get laid" is immediate grounds for going on my ignore list.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Did I read correctly that Gracie could have used her ‘bye’ for a Grand Prix event next year instead o

If she had not competed internationally this year. It's a one-time option for those who have gotten specific results -- for her, having placed Top 6 at Worlds the last 10 years (4th in 2016, so through 2024-5 or 2025-6, depending on how they count ten) -- and haven't competed internationally the prior season. And it's not "renewed" by meeting the criteria again.

I have to wonder about the strategy, if she wasn't at least 50% and in an upward trajectory back when her name was submitted last Spring, and she used the one-time option. The only disadvantage to staying in the Nationals circuit at least through Nationals is that she couldn't earn TES minimums in time for 4C's, which would depend on high enough results at Nationals and possibly at least one pass by the top three senior Ladies, much more unlikely since 4C's is in Anaheim. If she wanted to aim for TES minimums and WS points, just in case, IMO one of the late-November, more obscure internationals with no streaming would have yielded more, If she didn't opt for a late CS event. If she did well at Nationals, but didn't make the championship team(s), she could have done a Spring international to test the waters or have used her one-time GP comeback option for next season.

Especially in the first year of an Olympic cycle.

 

[kwanatic]

My only hope from all of this is that Gracie is taking her performance in stride. It was obvious (to everyone and even herself as she admitted it) that she wasn't exactly trained for this event. I'm thinking they wanted to rip the band aid off and just get out there and compete. Get the experience, re-introduce the feel for competition, and see how she reacted. Knowing where she was in terms of her training and still showing up anyway takes a lot of courage.

The fact that she was wise enough to know going for the FS wasn't good for her mentally is amazing--that shows growth and strength to override your determination/pride/ego or whatever it is and say, "No, this isn't healthy for me." I'm glad she stepped away and on her terms.

I didn't care for her coaches reactions to her performance. They just sat next to her looking awkward. No one patted her on the back or put an arm around her or even seemed to be talking to her after her SP. I just remember Brian's words of encouragement after Evgenia's first few performances back. Brian was right there telling her it was okay, it's a process, commending her for what she did do well...basically encouraging her. I don't know what Gracie's relationship is with her coaches but what we saw in the K&C was not reassuring that she's in the right hands for the task she's undertaking.

Of course only Gracie knows her reasons for competing here but, IMO and it's just my opinion, I think it'd have been better to take this year to get herself together physically, mentally and emotionally before jumping back in the deep end. She'd have been in better shape and her jumps would have been stronger which would have given her the confidence to go out and hopefully have a stronger skate. I get why she chose to compete here...I just hope this performance will be a positive for her and not a setback. It's up to the team around her to make sure she sees it that way.

Lastly, I do wonder if coming back to competition is wise for her given her past struggles. The sport gave her a lot but it also took a lot from her. Going back into a situation that caused you so many problems might not be the best thing considering she's still in the process of healing from the initial damage it caused. Then again, as she's wiser now and can spot those problems, she may be better equipped to handle/manage those things. Still, it's a tall order for anyone. I guess it depends on what she's hoping to get out of coming back. Does she want to be US champion again? Is her goal to be competitive internationally? Is she aiming for 2020? Or is she just here to skate, compete and end her career on her terms?

Either way I support her. She has a long way to go but at least that very first step (the hardest one) is out of the way now.

 

[ZilphaK]

The discussion of skaters' breasts in this thread is in very poor taste.

Absolutely. I tried to limit my examples to grown women, one who posed in Playboy and one who's Tonya Harding.

I have two daughters. I'm realistic with them when talking about their athletic pursuits. My eldest gained some normal weight and had to relearn jumps and boost stamina. But she could do it. To say only wafer thin girls should compete because 3+3 jumps are easier is ridiculous. A lot who can land 3+3 can't land quads, so what's next? Not worth it to skate over age 15?

Anyway, I apologize if I offended anyone. I'm on women's side, always.

 

[PDilemma]

It’s a competition and I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect athletes to be able to deliver a minimum standard performance. In any other sport, if an athlete said that they weren’t trained and performed poorly, ticket holders would be pretty annoyed having to sit through this. The Grand Prix events aren’t some private playground. Only a few lucky skaters get invites and it’s not really fair that an athlete who isn’t up to perform and knows she’s not ready takes a spot that could have been assigned to another skater. I think the ISU should hold the USFS responsible for not monitoring its athlete.

What other sports are you watching where every single athlete meets some mythical "minimum standard performance"? In every sport athletes have bad days. Every single sport. Every professional league has teams that suck. My favorite baseball team lost 104 games this year. We went to a game where the pitcher gave up a grand slam home run. I wasn't "annoyed having to sit through" that. Because I know that pitchers have bad days and some batters hit home runs. The Cleveland Brown lost 17 straight NFL games--that's more than a season of losing. The Cleveland Cavaliers lost their best player and have only one 2 games so far this season. No one is suggesting that they not be allowed to continue playing. My favorite college football team lost 6 straight to start the season--worst start in school history and a 10 game losing streak going back to last year. And we kept watching. Because those are the breaks.

If you can't handle athletes or teams struggling, I would suggest that you just don't watch sports.

 

[coppertop1]

Absolutely. I tried to limit my examples to grown women, one who posed in Playboy and one who's Tonya Harding.

I have two daughters. I'm realistic with them when talking about their athletic pursuits. My eldest gained some normal weight and had to relearn jumps and boost stamina. But she could do it. To say only wafer thin girls should compete because 3+3 jumps are easier is ridiculous. A lot who can land 3+3 can't land quads, so what's next? Not worth it to skate over age 15?

Anyway, I apologize if I offended anyone. I'm on women's side, always.

The mentality of girls who aren't wafer thin ballerina types are overweight and can't be competitive is why so many single ladies skaters have eating disorders. A skater in her late teens or early twenties will not have the same body as a thirteen year old. Women's bodies develop and mature, they grow. It's called puberty and it isn't a bad thing, it's normal. People need to stop thinking that a young woman needs to be thin to compete. They don't.

And your response wasn't offensive. It was on point.

 

[ZilphaK]

What other sports are you watching where every single athlete meets some mythical "minimum standard performance"? In every sport athletes have bad days. Every single sport. Every professional league has teams that suck. My favorite baseball team lost 104 games this year. We went to a game where the pitcher gave up a grand slam home run. I wasn't "annoyed having to sit through" that. Because I know that pitchers have bad days and some batters hit home runs. The Cleveland Brown lost 17 straight NFL games--that's more than a season of losing. The Cleveland Cavaliers lost their best player and have only one 2 games so far this season. No one is suggesting that they not be allowed to continue playing. My favorite college football team lost 6 straight to start the season--worst start in school history and a 10 game losing streak going back to last year. And we kept watching. Because those are the breaks.

If you can't handle athletes or teams struggling, I would suggest that you just don't watch sports.

Caps fan, here! Back to back, baby!

 

[mag]

If she had skated that short program with legitimate triple jump and double axel attempts and fell on everything, I don’t think think people would have been hard on her at all.

Really? Because many people on this board seem to see falling as a mortal sin. What exactly is the difference between a 3lz<< and a 2lz? Why do we have a cumulative fall deduction if it is better to fall than double? Maybe if it is better to fall we wouldn’t have that group of women in the first flight of senior B’s doing 2lz+2t in the short because they don’t want to risk falling on the triple they are working on.

What I think the real issue is is this: Gracie is seen by many as overweight. If she had shown up 20 lbs lighter and done the exact same program many critics would be praising her effort, telling her it is okay, she can come back next time. It is repulsive.

 

[muffinplus]

Is this thread going to be locked?

 

[Bonita]

Boobs can't jump. I know. I went to my skate guy and asked for a pair of Edeas in 36C and he told me sadly they didn't make boob skates at all, never mind in my colossal size.

 

[ZilphaK]

Is this thread going to be locked?

Only if Pens fans complain about my Caps post.

 

[morqet]

where are all the reports that she was landing jumps in practice coming from? The only report I’ve seen was on twitter from Friday practice before the SP - 6 triples, of which 3 were falls, one step out and two landed shakily and probably under rotated, but she did manage to put a 2 toe on the end, plus some double axels, only one of which would have earned +goe. The person watching said she really didn’t look ready to compete.

Maybe things have been going better in practice at home, but her performance didn’t look like Gracie of 2015-17 that made mistakes due to nerves, it just looked like the jumps aren’t back yet. It would be interesting to hear the thought process behind competing on such a high profile stage when she so clearly isn’t ready. If the bye to nationals was a factor, asking for a lower profile challenger assignment this week or next would have got the same result without so much negative attention.

 

[Carolla5501]

Ok folk, some simple science here: when you have knockers bigger than Dolly Parton, you are not going to land triple -triples. Call it body shaming, racist, sexist, whatever.....as an athlete, your body must be capable of doing what it is suppose to do. There is no way in heck that Gracie Gold has been doing anything in practice or otherwise that is competitive on the senior international level.

Health issues aside, it's not uncommon for female athletes who stop training to go through a delayed puberty which it looks like Gracie did but boobs can't land jumps; just ask Elena Gedevanishvili who had a breast reduction in 2013. Gracie Gold does not currently have a body which can do what it is asked to do.

I do not have to guess,I know you are a jerk without a clue. My guess is everyone should Join me in putting your trash talking on ignore.


Bye bye

 

[Sylvia]

I thought NBC covered Gracie appropriately in their broadcast today - Tanith just stated that she skated the SP (brief clips were shown) and that she withdrew from the FS -- maybe about 30 seconds total?

 

[Twizzler]

I didn't care for her coaches reactions to her performance. They just sat next to her looking awkward. No one patted her on the back or put an arm around her or even seemed to be talking to her after her SP. I just remember Brian's words of encouragement after Evgenia's first few performances back. Brian was right there telling her it was okay, it's a process, commending her for what she did do well...basically encouraging her. I don't know what Gracie's relationship is with her coaches but what we saw in the K&C was not reassuring that she's in the right hands for the task she's undertaking.

^^^This!! Glad I wasn’t the only one who noticed. There seemed to be absolutely no connection between any of them. It was very bizarre and concerning for Gracie’s mental health. She needs a support system and in that moment, it seemed to be severely lacking

 

[Karen-W]

^^^This!! Glad I wasn’t the only one who noticed. There seemed to be absolutely no connection between any of them. It was very bizarre and concerning for Gracie’s mental health. She needs a support system and in that moment, it seemed to be severely lacking

Or maybe Gracie doesn't want them fawning all over her, especially in public. We only saw a brief glimpse into the skater-coach dynamic while they were in the KnC area. Not everyone needs to be warm and fuzzy, and not everyone wants their personal space invaded in that way.

 

[mag]

Or maybe Gracie doesn't want them fawning all over her, especially in public. We only saw a brief glimpse into the skater-coach dynamic while they were in the KnC area. Not everyone needs to be warm and fuzzy, and not everyone wants their personal space invaded in that way.

Exactly! Sometimes showing sympathy makes it more difficult for the person to maintain their composure. I imagine it took a lot of mental strength for Gracie to hold it together in the Kiss and Cry. The last things she needed was sympathy. She needed to maintain her composure until she was off camera.