Royalty Thread#12 Tiaras, Palaces & Gilded Cages

[mella]

W&K visited the NHS yesterday:

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Hey, I've worked at that building! Inspected that floor in December. My claim to fame!

 

[aftershocks]

What is the reason to believe?

Reason to believe what? You can't see that something is happening and has happened between the Wales brothers? You haven't seen or read anything about the 'stepping back' by M&H, or seen any of the negative articles about Meghan that were unrelenting during her pregnancy? Buzzfeed recently put together a summary of the negative stories against Meghan. There's a ton of articles, commentaries and information out there. Of course, much of it is tabloid lies and intentionally confusing palace p.r. spin, which is why it's easy or preferable to simply ignore the hidden truth and keep swallowing the palace p.r. and toxic royal reporter kool-aid. If you are really interested, do some serious research. If you aren't really interested but just want to question me, I can't help you any further. Go back and read my prior post. I added a brief paragraph at the end.

 

[shan]

Reason to believe what? You can't see that something is happening and has happened between the Wales brothers? You haven't seen or read anything about the 'stepping back' by M&H, or seen any of the negative articles about Meghan that were unrelenting during her pregnancy? Buzzfeed recently put together a summary of the negative stories against Meghan. There's a ton of articles, commentaries and information out there. Of course, much of it is tabloid lies and intentionally confusing palace p.r. spin, which is why it's easy or preferable to simply ignore the hidden truth and keep swallowing the palace p.r. and toxic royal reporter kool-aid. If you are really interested, do some serious research. If you aren't really interested but just want to question me, I can't help you any further. Go back and read my prior post. I added a brief paragraph at the end.

I read your brief paragraph at the end, but it didn't really answer the question of why it's likely. I do see that something has happened between William and Harry, but I've never seen it attributed to lawsuits, which is why I asked you. There's tons about Meghan and Harry (positive and negative), but I haven't seen anything that links the lawsuits to Harry and William's relationship breakdown. I figured that since you said it, there must be some article or information. My mistake.

 

[MacMadame]

Suffice to say the Sussexes did not 'pick this time to step back.'

Either they are mature adults who make their own decisions or they are not. They had many options available to them and this is the one they picked and this is the time they picked to do it.

 

[canbelto]

I read your brief paragraph at the end, but it didn't really answer the question of why it's likely. I do see that something has happened between William and Harry, but I've never seen it attributed to lawsuits, which is why I asked you. There's tons about Meghan and Harry (positive and negative), but I haven't seen anything that links the lawsuits to Harry and William's relationship breakdown. I figured that since you said it, there must be some article or information. My mistake.

1. aftershocks "knows" things. She can't cite them but trust me, they're true. The basic gist of it is that William is Madison and Harry is Hannah Ann. William is evil, and has used the royal rota to hatch his evil plots against Harry and Meghan.

2. Harry and Meghan are not revealing Deep Dark Sekrets about the Cambridges, but aftershocks still "knows" about them.

3. aftershocks is going to play the tape of William joking about the coronavirus from now till eternity. She will never stop.

4. I;m sure I'm missing something but I can't remember what.

 

[overedge]

There is no "necessity" to protect the monarchy. If there was, we wouldn't know things like Camilla and Charles having phone conversations about him living inside her trousers and becoming a tampon.

@aftershocks if you have all this inside secret knowledge about what is really going on in the Royal Family, there are more productive places to share it than here.

 

[overedge]

4. I;m sure I'm missing something but I can't remember what.

To sum up:
William and Kate

Harry and Meghan

 

[puglover]

As a mother of 3 sons and 3 daughters and now 17 grandchildren one of the greatest desires of my heart is for them to be close, stay friends, help and support each other. As an only child myself, I tended to take their fights and squabbles personally - What did I do wrong and how can I solve it? Thankfully I quit that a long time ago. Time has changed a great deal. My two daughters, 18 months apart, were not friends growing up but are super tight now as adult women and mothers. Everyone thinks the youngest daughter is spoiled but they all adore her. None of them are heirs to a kingdom but there is a very large difference in socio-economic status - one of the daughters I mentioned and her husband are exceedingly wealthy and live in a mansion. Of course, spouses also change the dynamics.

I believe they would always have each others back even if it may not appear so to outsiders. Families have ups and downs but thank goodness most of us do not have our every body movement and attitude examined by so called experts. If ever there was a complex relationship - it is family. I don't like to speculate on what is happening. My SIL has been known to fight with his closest brother and for them not to speak to each other for 6 months - then come together as if nothing happened. All this reading into things in families upsets me. None of us really knows!

 

[aftershocks]

Either they are mature adults who make their own decisions or they are not. They had many options available to them and this is the one they picked and this is the time they picked to do it.

MacMadame, stuff has been going on behind-the-scenes since before M&H married. It simply got worse after their successful South Pacific tour when the knives came out and palace leaks began coming thick and heavy and the British tabloids ran with the leaks and ratcheted up negative stories against a pregnant woman. They didn't care if anything happened to the baby she was carrying either. And then after Meghan gave birth some of these same reprehensible a'holes had the nerve to expect her and Harry to pap-walk their newborn outside the steps of a hospital!

You can choose to be nastily dismissive by claiming that Harry & Meghan chose this time to leave. Nope, they began thinking about some way to resolve things and to take care of their lives and of their son soon after he was born. Harry at that time spoke to his father and to his grandmother, and he was given the runaround by palace courtiers. That's one of the reasons why M&H chose to release a little of the stress and pressure they were under by saying something as graciously as possible in the South Africa documentary last fall, when asked by Tom Bradby. Yet still, they were careful about how much they said, unlike the uncaring, backstabbing members of both their families who have been selling them down the river.

Your contention that 'either they are mature adults who make their own decisions or not,' is rather funny, because that's the point. Being cowed and marginalized within the royal firm would have been their alternative. When you are beholden to the royal way of life in the British monarchy, then in fact, regardless of whether or not you are a mature adult, you most certainly do not have control over all of your own decisions.

Meghan and Harry have demonstrated the courage and the backbone to stand up against two powerful institutions: the British monarchy, and the British media, and to fight back. Plus, as Harry has said, this is not just about the two of them. It's about doing what's right, and trying to make a difference for everyone who have suffered and who have been scapegoated by the British media. In the regard to the royal firm, this move by the Sussexes will hopefully make a positive difference for the next generation of 'spare heir' royals. Meanwhile, for M&H, it has definitely been about protecting and making a difference for their son and his future, above all.

But as usual, believe what you will.

 

[canbelto]

To sum up:
William and Kate

Harry and Meghan

@aftershocks is the new esta! A million depressions for poor Kate who is slow like Usova.

 

[aftershocks]

All this reading into things in families upsets me. None of us really knows!

With due respect @puglover, we are not speaking of just a family, we are speaking of an ancient institution, in which the heir has always taken precedence down through the ages. There are lots of levels to what is going on. I know many royal fans are upset, because many of us wish to keep our pleasant, romantic view of the British monarchy and of the personalities who people it. Sadly, the cover is being blown off quite a bit of stuff these days, and not just within the confines of the hallowed palace halls of the British royal family.

I have posted articles, cited books, documentaries, interviews, and podcast commentary, etc. But I keep being questioned and dismissed here. That's fine. There are plenty of people and media venues in the world who know what's up. It is sad, but it's a reality. It's been spun every which way by the various palaces too. But the stiff awkwardness we saw between the couples at Commonwealth Services spoke volumes. Sure, none of us know all the details, or the extent of everything. But I've heard comments indirectly from reporters on Twitter and comments in articles by some of these same reporters that there's some serious stuff that has happened, even to the extent of someone in the palaces being involved in the media's manipulation of Meghan's father. Shocking yes. Maybe that's true, or maybe it's jumping the gun via speculation.

But believe this, something has happened, and the fact Harry is still being as magnanimous as he has been is rather amazing in and of itself. Too bad the patience and generosity is coming only from one direction. BTW, the Queen and Prince Charles, according to a 2017 report by Robert Jobson, decided to allow William to "learn from his own mistakes," since he listens to neither of them.

There's no doubt that had Harry been caught on tape a few weeks ago joking about the burden everyone is now facing, we'd never be allowed to hear the end of it. After it was reported in a few outlets about William's joking, it was downplayed, and then, nothing but crickets.

See below another example that is being reported about the lengths to which the tabloids went and are still going to try and bring the Sussexes to their knees. The below story is just one former example. Plenty of people and relatives of Meghan's have been bribed and harassed:

Simon Rex Talks Meghan Markle Dating Rumors

Simon Rex Talks Meghan Markle Dating Rumors www.usmagazine.com Follow Us Weekly on Facebook.com/UsWeekly Follow Us Weekly on Instagram @UsWeekly Follow Us We...

www.youtube.com

An Actor Says He Was Offered $70k by British Media to Lie About Having Sex With Meghan Markle

Meghan Markle's former co-star, actor Simon Rex, was offered $70,000 by British media to lie about dating and "hooking up" with Meghan.

stylecaster.com

Plus, all of the manipulation of Meghan's Dad, and setting him up with the papped photos was done in order to try and outright disrupt, mar or stop the royal wedding of M&H, but it didn't work. So other tactics were employed after the royal wedding. The expectation after the marriage was that interest in M&H would die down and that Meghan would/ should simply kowtow and be grateful she is part of the family. And try to 'fit-in' she did, but there was nothing she could ever do right for always somehow being wrong and a rule-breaker. If you don't understand, and you don't want to know the truth, then you don't.

Yes, let's just get back to what goes down easy. I have been surprised to learn about some of the sad family relationships surrounding other European royals. No family is perfect, especially not dysfunctional royal families. Queen Victoria's was the most dysfunctional ever, in a different era. And so it goes...

 

[MacMadame]

You can choose to be nastily dismissive by claiming that Harry & Meghan chose this time to leave.

Yes, it is "nastily dismissive" to claim people are rational adults who make their own decisions.

 

[taf2002]

IF the above story about Simon Rex is true then it makes it easier to understand why Meghan has cut her family out of her life. If that is the kind of doodoo that she faced in the UK then it would have been more important that her family have her back, & when they revealed that they were just out for making a buck it must have broken her heart. What's so bad about this situation is that it's impossible to know for sure what to believe.

To be honest, until William & Harry grew up, like most Americans I really didn't have much respect for the British monarchacy. I was impressed that they both went into the military & did important work. And I thought Kate was an excellent choice. At that point my involvement was liking the fashion & tiaras.

But until Meghan it was just rich priviledged people doing priviledged things. Meghan wasn't poor but she is kind of a Cinderella story. Whether you like her or not it's hard for me to understand the constant attacks. There are celebrities I'm not fond of but I don't go out of my way to denigrate them. I just don't mention them. The tabloid "reporters" are the scum of the earth to me.

 

[Vagabond]

By the way, where are the Sussexes going to live after the end of the month? Staying in their charming little cottage on his grandmother's estate does appear to be the easiest option. Or would they consider that house arrest?

 

[canbelto]

By the way, where are the Sussexes going to live after the end of the month? Staying in their charming little cottage on his grandmother's estate does appear to be the easiest option. Or would they consider that house arrest?

They moved to Vancouver Island.

 

[puglover]

I am not trivializing anything you say aftershocks nor do I defend in even the slightest the mean disgusting things said about Harry and Meagan, (or any of them for that matter). I realize they belong to an ages old institution and that causes immense complications. I speak only as a mother. I have rarely seen situations where fault could not be ascribed to both sides - as well as magnanimous kindness. It is also impossible to know all the issues good and bad between a lifetime of being brothers that affect this current situation. It seems to me that healing generally takes place when others stay out of it. Not easy I know with worldwide media begging for dirt - but then maybe we could just stop buying and reading it.

 

[mjb52]

@aftershocks Do you know the story of the Austrian royal who was installed by Napoleon III as the Emperor of Mexico - it's pretty out there. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximilian_I_of_Mexico

 

[kwanfan1818]

To sum up:
William and Kate

Harry and Meghan

Gives renewed meaning to tl;dr.

 

[mag]

Harry and Meghan have received a bit of a backlash for a rather tone deaf Instagram post.

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[Lorac]

Harry and Meghan have received a bit of a backlash for a rather tone deaf Instagram post.

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Wow - that is so out of touch and pretty condescending of them to be honest. They really need to drop the 'wokeness' at this time and do something a little more constructive.

 

[overedge]

I think with the whole thriving thing. This is the deal yes I think we are responsible for our own well being and if your miserable changes sometimes need to be made.

BUT sometimes in life there Are more important things than our own well being there are duties.

Life isn’t going to be happy all the time. Their are responsiblities. Struggled and obstacles can define character.

Harry is a royal and was raised in the royal family. Do you think he doesn't already know that his royal role comes with responsibilities?

 

[aftershocks]

I am not trivializing anything you say aftershocks nor do I defend in even the slightest the mean disgusting things said about Harry and Meagan, (or any of them for that matter). I realize they belong to an ages old institution and that causes immense complications. I speak only as a mother. I have rarely seen situations where fault could not be ascribed to both sides - as well as magnanimous kindness. It is also impossible to know all the issues good and bad between a lifetime of being brothers that affect this current situation. It seems to me that healing generally takes place when others stay out of it. Not easy I know with worldwide media begging for dirt - but then maybe we could just stop buying and reading it.

Thanks for your thoughtful reply @puglover.

As I've said previously, I believe the Queen and Prince Charles are for the most part understanding of what M&H are facing, but they have been slow to show them full, solid public support. If they had, some of this 'stepping back' crisis may have been averted or lessened and solved behind-the-scenes. I said awhile ago, that a publicly united front by the royals needed to happen because when you throw one member of the family to the media wolves, it will eventually become open season on all members. The British media hold a lot of royal cards. The biggest reason why QE-II and Charles remained silent when Meghan was under daily attack, is because William is the heir and the preservation of the monarchy takes precedence, even over fairness and doing what's right. Plus, the Queen and Charles listen to advice from old-fashioned, dyed-in-the-wool courtiers who hold a lot of power behind-the-scenes, but whose names we do not know. So it was apparently more convenient for QE-II and Charles to resort to their usual stiff-upper-lip silence, which has come back to bite them.

The biggest point @puglover: The royal courtiers, palace p.r., and royal reporters will unfortunately NOT be staying out of it. Still over time, hopefully healing can happen between the brothers? I think the entire family has been impacted in ways we will probably never know. It is definitely sad, but there's actually a lot of bad blood that exists behind the surface among many royal families, as happens in most human families. It's just that royal families are faced with different kinds of high profile burdens. In specific regard to the Wales brothers, yes there's a lot we don't know, but there's also a lot we do know that's been publicly revealed. Both young men lost their mother, and they have both been deeply affected by their parents' unhappiness, and by inconsolable grief over their mother's loss, in different ways. Her death has not only been a void in both their lives, I believe it was the beginning of the divergence of their paths (despite the fact they were fairly close and looked out for each other). Growing up does cause change, and they are human, and they've always had a jocular sibling rivalry that has eventually turned sour.

I've said before and it is confirmed in historical documents, in biographies, in documentaries, and by what we've officially seen: future monarchs must and will be protected. That's the bottom line. Therefore, William was coddled and protected, and Harry was allowed to take the fall often for mistakes both brothers made in their youth. Had Diana lived, she would have served as a buffer and as a guide, and as an emotional sounding board to protect both of her sons. Diana understood her sons and she knew they had different personalities. Once Diana was gone, Charles did his best, but his relationship with his sons is complicated and he hasn't always been there for them, especially not emotionally, because that's difficult for him.

It would be cool if a lot of the dirt would stop being thrown to the media. The reason a lot of things seem so confusing and hard to believe is because there is so much conflicting spin and a mountain of leaks coming from various palaces. Also, a number of reporters have direct association with particular officials and individuals inside the palaces. Make no mistake. Bottom line: the palaces have issues with poor administration, outdated attitudes by courtiers, and a lack of unified coordination and effective communication between the palaces. Also, once again, it is well known that the Queen has never liked to be directly involved in family squabbles, and Prince Philip has been well out of being able to manage that front for many years. As well, while Prince Charles has his strengths, being decisive and having a strong backbone are not his attributes.

A lot of the leaking against the Sussexes has been coming from KP. The whole continuation of the narrative that the 'rift' began between William & Harry due to William advising Harry that he was 'going too fast' in his relationship with Meghan is a 'pile of bunk' that doesn't make much sense. Harry was in his early thirties and he was ready to settle down. He met someone important to him, and they both knew what they had was special and they both made a commitment to each other. If indeed William and Harry had a heart-to-heart regarding Meghan, it didn't happen until a few months into M&H's relationship because Harry intentionally kept his relationship with Meghan on the down low, not telling anyone close to him in his family until perhaps starting sometime in September 2016. Harry told his father and his grandparents first.

If anyone in Harry's family were seriously concerned about Meghan, meeting her on a one-on-one level (along with the background checks on her), and the positive impact she's had on Harry should have put their fears to rest. Any objections to the pace of M&H's relationship makes no sense seeing that they were/are both in their thirties, and able to make 'rational decisions' as two mature, consenting adults. Therefore, any objections William reportedly had to the pace of the relationship smacks of insecurity on his part at best, and at worst to controlling behavior apparently based on somehow seeing Meghan as a threat to his and his wife's relationship with Harry, and/or to his and Kate's own public image. Ironically, William and Kate being less insecure and more accepting would have helped keep the so-called 'fab four' image intact. I certainly fell for that heroic label and royal image initially.

Ultimately, any purported objections by William as to the pace of his 'spare' younger brother's new and serious relationship is very suspect in view of the fact that M&H managed to continue keeping their courtship under-the-radar, despite widespread public interest once it was publicly revealed. Also, Meghan made a number of huge sacrifices in order to be with Harry. At the least, the Queen and Prince Charles were impressed enough by Meghan to fully accept her and to consent to the engagement and to the royal wedding. Some members of the family (not to mention some royal staffers) obviously weren't as chill nor as accepting. Harry was at that point 5th in line to the throne, now 6th. He's obviously not going to inherit the throne, and he'd met someone who was making/ has made a positive, beneficial difference in his life. What were/ are the objections against Meghan really about?

 

[canbelto]

This might come as a shock to you @aftershocks but sometimes in laws just don’t get on and it’s no ones fault. People are different and don’t take to each other. Not everyone is going to be as head over heels about Meghan as Harry was or you are. Just to use an example Diana didn’t get on with Tiggy Legge Bourke. Harry obviously felt differently and remains close with her. Was Diana a bad person? No. Ppl just don’t get on sometimes and no amount of cloak and daggers fanfic is going to change that.

 

[aftershocks]

Wow - that is so out of touch and pretty condescending of them to be honest. They really need to drop the 'wokeness' at this time and do something a little more constructive.

Eh, the Sussexes are at least trying to do something. Perhaps it's heavy-handed or misguided. No one is infallible. A lot of people are trying to do something at this time of crisis, and every effort may or may not be helpful or well thought out. I don't see anything particularly egregious about the post by the Sussexes. They are addressing their followers chiefly.

In any case, let's face the fact that Sussex-bashing from the palaces is and has been an ongoing thing and it will continue, regardless of the success or failure of anything the Sussexes choose to do. There is significant interest among palace officials in bringing the Sussexes to their knees and in trying to ensure they will not be successful in their independent life outside of the royal firm. Frankly, a lot of people believe that's what the recent prank calls against Harry were about. Some palace sources tried to cite that prank call against Harry as evidence that 'stepping back' makes him vulnerable. That's laughable seeing as M&H were both just as vulnerable while still inside the royal fold.

As well, lots of stuff has happened to any number of royals while inside the 'protective' fold of the royal firm. The kidnap attempt against Princess Anne in the 1970s. A prank call against the Queen, not to mention the young man who was able to break into the Queen's bedroom and have a conversation sitting by her bedside. And let's avoid getting into Prince Andrew's scandals and p.r. mistakes, since there's a separate thread for that.

The whole reason there's supposed to be this year's review of the Sussexes' bid for freedom, is in order for the Royal Rota media hoard to continue their negative stories, lies and critical onslaught. If there weren't so many lies and baseless negativity, then a true critical assessment might be fair and worthwhile. At this point, it's practically impossible to be fair and impartial because as you can see, any thoughtful commentary is going to be viewed as picking sides. If everything is actually looked at honestly, the Cambridges unfortunately look insecure and propped up by the media and the monarchy, as they have been trying to catch up and 'compete' with the substantial and positive pace of work and projects the Sussexes' have actually accomplished as senior royals in a very short period of time.

It was hoped in certain quarters that the Sussexes' return to public view in early March would prove awkward and unsuccessful, and that the public would not greet them warmly. Long story short, that didn't happen (an understatement to say the least).

So I guess, if there's any way to use the current crisis as another negative against the Sussexes, palace sources and the British media are on point and totally up for that assignment, regardless of whether or not M&H's efforts deserve criticism.

 

[canbelto]

Huh? The Cambridges visited the NHS. That’s exactly what was needed.

 

[aftershocks]

This might come as a shock to you @aftershocks but sometimes in laws just don’t get on and it’s no ones fault. People are different and don’t take to each other. Not everyone is going to be as head over heels about Meghan as Harry was or you are. Just to use an example Diana didn’t get on with Tiggy Legge Bourke. Harry obviously felt differently and remains close with her. Was Diana a bad person? No. Ppl just don’t get on sometimes and no amount of cloak and daggers fanfic is going to change that.

The situation between the two couples is well beyond cloak-and-daggers fanfic, as indeed it is also past that trivial labeling for the entire royal family as a huge transition of power is underway. Not to mention the impact of Brexit and the huge cultural shifts within Britain as a whole. It's impossible to have a conversation with people in this thread who already have their minds made up, and who prefer not to pay any attention to the complexities of what I am saying. Much less to the numerous links I have posted previously.

In the end, as I've said before, it really doesn't matter what any of us think. Whatever is going to happen among the British royals will continue to unfold. And each of us can perceive what we will, as we will. I'm sure many of us have a lot more important personal issues to concern us at this time anyway.

 

[mag]

Huh? The Cambridges visited the NHS. That’s exactly what was needed.

I think I am not seeing what this is in response to but I agree it was a good visit and I think much appreciated. They have been criticized for not keeping enough distance. I think that is a fair criticism and hopefully they will take that on board for their next outing. Like Charles with the handshaking it is muscle memory and we all need to fight against it.

 

[Vagabond]

They moved to Vancouver Island.

Yes, but will they actually be able to go there now?

 

[overedge]

Yes, but will they actually be able to go there now?

Vancouver airport is still open for some flights, and the ferries to Vancouver Island are still running. It's not impossible for them to get there.

 

[canbelto]

They flew there about a week ago right after Commonwealth Day.