Same sex pairs/dance skating

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MIsty Blades/Skate Mom

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Tennis has mens/womens doubles. Synchronized swimming has female pairs. Why won't they allow same sex pairs/dance events in skating?

I think it would make skating more exciting and give countries with a lot of depth (US, Russia, Japan, Canada) to allow more skaters to compete domestically and internationally.
 
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tylersf

Well-Known Member
Messages
502
I think that's a great idea. We would have more interesting things to see and it would allow more skaters to compete. Skating needs a boost right now. In fact, the ISU could create international leagues or teams. It's also more TV time around the world.
 
ballettmaus

ballettmaus

Well-Known Member
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MIsty Blades/Skate Mom said:
Tennis has mens/womens doubles. Synchronized swimming has female pairs. Why won't they allow same sex pairs/dance events in skating?

I think it would make skating more exciting and give countries with a lot of depth (US, Russia, Japan, Canada) to allow more skaters to compete domestically and internationally.
Click to expand...

I think that same sex-partners might have a disadvantage when it comes to lifts especially now under COP. And I don't know how well throws would work for same-sex partners.
 
Tinami Amori

Tinami Amori

Well-Known Member
Messages
20,153
It's been done, but not for competition. Back in late 1960's and to now Moscow Circus on Ice used to have pairs and triplets of male acrobats and 2-3-4 women teams with ribbons and hoops....

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-x-zO1dg61...600/1907559_10202749339642326_110683143_n.jpg

http://www.juliacharleseventmanagem...90&zc=1&hash=db5020ff017438124058166b153aca28

http://www.international.zoomentertainment.com.au/Images/Entertainers/Circus-on-Ice/3.jpg

https://www.icefestivalharbin.com/p...d-snow-world-2015/img_985_d20141229112741.jpg

http://www.absoluteskating.com/reports/2012stockholmice/clownacrobat.jpg

There are even bigger size teams, like 6 male ice acrobats...
http://www.insideskating.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/541.jpg

..... I think we skating fans need to convince ISU to include Syncho Teams into the Olympics first..... Their venue is tried and established and yet they can't yet get accredited.
 
overedge

overedge

Mayor of Carrot City
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37,105
Some competitions allow same-sex couples in dance and pairs. When there were adult nationals in Canada (sanctioned by Skate Canada), same-sex couples were allowed to enter the dance events - because there were a lot of women who wanted to compete in dance but who didn't have male partners (or who lived in an area where there weren't any men doing ice dance). Same-sex couples were also allowed to enter the artistic/spotlight/creative events as well.
 
Tinami Amori

Tinami Amori

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20,153
Roller Skating events used to have Quad Teams....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X65sRz4N5Dw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8IwhTiv5b8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgAovD3ZbDs

Johnny Weir did "Kabuki style" on Ice (where all characters are performed by men)
There are throw jumps.... (Johnny is being thrown.... :D)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TiYjbwRu30c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwx7OF-lVXg

Then one number with Plushenko..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vFVYY8H-m0

... and Plushenko and Boyang Jin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiJLUlTfZxQ

...... and there are (at least until recently) Gay Games for men and women figure skating..... but i really see no reason to put gender identity into sport, when it is PERFECTLY NORMAL for 2-3 people of the same gender to be on an athletic team....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZMO4IOlf_g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6k9oluDUKY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iL5llzNkuRo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJvy2J9m1es
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2vOx62Nu7s
 
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M

MIsty Blades/Skate Mom

Banned Member
Messages
186
You're right about the synchro teams...
Now those would be good for league competition.

Tinami Amori said:
It's been done, but not for competition. Back in late 1960's and to now Moscow Circus on Ice used to have pairs and triplets of male acrobats and 2-3-4 women teams with ribbons and hoops....
........
..... I think we skating fans need to convince ISU to include Syncho Teams into the Olympics first..... Their venue is tried and established and yet they can't yet get accredited.
Click to expand...
 
gkelly

gkelly

Well-Known Member
Messages
16,697
Ice dance could be done by two men or two women with similar techniques to mixed-sex couples. The lifts wouldn't be as complex or impressive as we tend to see now, but 1980s-style dance lifts could be possible.

Lifts are not the heart of ice dancing. Focusing on the skating to the musical rhythm while in holds could work. It would probably be designed to be less focused on recreating ballroom dancing on ice.

With the right rules, it might even be possible to allow male teams, female teams, and mixed dance teams all to compete against each other.


The standard mixed-pair skills that rely so much on size difference that we see in junior and senior mixed pairs would either not be possible at all or would look very different in same-sex pairs. Male pair skating and female pair skating would each need to develop differently to emphasize the kinds of pair moves that would fit the potential of two men/boys or two women/girls skating together, along with all the side-by-side freeskating skills. The result would be three completely different kinds of freestyle pair skating.

If there were championships offered in same-sex pairs, it would be interesting to see what kinds of innovative moves the teams could come up with.

In particular, we would expect no overhead lifts in female pairs, though dance-style lifts could work. I wonder what kinds of intertwined flexibility moves, e.g., pair spins or pair spiral sequences, high-level female pairs might achieve.
 
LarrySK8

LarrySK8

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Messages
494
Same-sex pair skating is endorsed by ISI, but never was supported by the ISU.

The Ice Skating Institute of America (ISI) has had since its inception, testing and support for "couples" and "mixed pairs." In other words, there is an avenue for same-sex pairs to train, test and compete - but it is under ISI, not the USFS or ISU.

I was personally a victim of the ISU's stance on same-sex couples, and I was only a singles skater at the time. In 1998 at Gay Games V in Amsterdam, the organizing committee set out the structure and rules for the competition, including the judging. They patterned it after ISU rules, but never asked the ISU for permission or a sanction, and never received it. When the ISU did catch on, they reviewed the competition structure and because it contained same-sex pairs (as part of the competition) and used the 6.0 judging system without permission, they refused to sanction it.

That meant that if they continued on with the official competition, every single skater, coach and judge was at risk of losing their ISU and USFS membership (unsanctioned event participation). There were professional and elite level skaters at this event (triple-triple combinations, skaters ranked in top 10 for their country, etc) who could not risk it. Judges would not risk it at all. The committee did not consider making same-sex pairs a "demonstration" event and dug its heels in about it and the ISU never sanctioned.

The entire competition was turned into a public practice exhibition event. No medals were awarded except the participation medals. We performed and were considered athletes, but we all trained, traveled, marched in with our countries in the Opening Ceremony and were then told our place to compete was simply not to be.

It was heartbreaking for those of us who were so serious about training, representing our country at the peak of our physical abilities and sacrificing to be there.

In the future, GG wised up and has been partnered and sanctioned by ISI every single time and the event is a huge success - including same-sex pairs.

At GG VII (Chicago) I was proud to represent my country in Singles (Bronze Medal Level 5) and Mixed Pairs (Gold Medal Level 5) with my partner under these sanctions and rules. There were many same-sex couples skating, several quite seriously.
 
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RoseRed

RoseRed

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Messages
2,164
Tinami Amori said:
..... I think we skating fans need to convince ISU to include Syncho Teams into the Olympics first..... Their venue is tried and established and yet they can't yet get accredited.
Click to expand...

It's not really up to the ISU though, the IOC would have to be on board. I know at least for the summer games, the IOC was "encouraging" international sports federations to cut down on the number of athletes that would go to the Olympics for that sport (eg. in equestrian lowering the number of riders per country). Now the Winter Olympics may be very different, but if it's like the Summer ones, the IOC might not go for adding a discipline with a lot of participants.
 
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tylersf

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