The 1980 Ladies Olympic SP: Potzsch vs Lenz

[bardtoob]

Who wins?

Anett Poetzsch - 1980 SP - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FZKzP5rwZs

Sandy Lenz - 1980 SP - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5vGyDmS4Us

 

[savchenkoboss]

Sandy by far but realistically at this time in skating on no planet would the judges place unknown U.S #3 Lenz higher in the short than superstar Oly gold contender, European Champion, and former World Champion Poetzsch, even though she clearly deserved to be. If you have Fratianne do Poetzsch's skate instead guarantee she also is scored over Lenz.

 

[briancoogaert]

I have no idea. Sandy Lenz's skating is so much more beautiful. But I think it is slow compared to Anett Poetzsch's. And her jumps don't have a good position in the air.
But for sure, Poetzsch's SP has nothing remarkable.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Sandy Lenz - 1980 SP - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5vGyDmS4Us

OH MY GOD!!!!

Perfection..... EVERYthing!

How come Ive never heard of her? This is what figure skating will always be for me..... the posture, carriage..... all of it... look at her lines, and her layback.... everything...

Sigh, now its all cram as much in as you can and the art has gone away....

 

[savchenkoboss]

Sandy was such an underrated skater. I would watch 20 of her programs before even one of Poetzsch or Fratiannezzzzzzzz.

 

[Maximillian]

Sandy was coached by Evy (not sure about Mary) Scotvold at Wagon Wheel in Illinois

 

[berthesghost]

Sandy was coached by Evy (not sure about Mary) Scotvold at Wagon Wheel in Illinois

iirc Mary was with her in the k&c in lp

 

[Vagabond]

Who wins?

Who wins? Pötzsch, of course.

Politiks counted for almost everything. Lenz was the sacrificial lamb expendable third-ranked U.S. skater and did three different kinds of jump (2A+2R, 2A, 2F). Pötzsch was the only gold-medal contender from Eastern Europe and did four different kinds of jump (2R+2T, 2A, 2F). The fact that Lenz arguably executed each element better, had better presentation, and had harder jumps (a second 2A to Pötzsch's 2T) was neither here nor there.

Who should have won? Lenz. Q.E.D. C.O.P.

Thanks for starting this thread, @bardtoob.

 

[berthesghost]

The requirements were a combo jump including a 2r, a 2x, and steps into a double jump
Lenz did 2x/2r, 2x and 2f
Anett did 2r/2t, 2x and 2f
It wasn’t just that she executed everything poorly but that she botched the intended 2r/3t combo, so ranked higher with lower tech content, poorer execution and terrible presentation/musical interpretation.
Iirc dagmar also ranked below anett despite higher tech and better execution. The only ones who scored higher than anett were Linda, Denise and Lisa-Marie who all did triples with their 2r in the combo.
It’s the text book definition of held up.

 

[VGThuy]

I guess even back then speed speed and more speed counted for a lot. That and politics.

 

[Vagabond]

The West German judge was brave enough to have the two of them tied (for fifth). Every other judge gave Pötzsch the higher marks, even by as much as 0.6 Total Points.

https://www.sports-reference.com/olympics/winter/1980/FSK/womens-singles-short-program.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Figure_skating_at_the_1980_Winter_Olympics

 

[briancoogaert]

I didn't know Sandy Lenz's skating. I'm discovering it, and I'm very impressed. What a glide, the lines and body control are so good . Too bad there are so few videos on the internet

 

[WillyElliot]

Lenz was wonderful! Too bad she never could achieve a triple, everything else she did was better than Linda or LisaMarie.

As for Anett, well, I don't really see much to like about anything in her skating.

Definitely Lenz over Poetsch. Everything Lenz did was better. Harder combo, better spins, FW, and then better choreo, pres, musicality, etc.

I think I recall in a discussion before that even if Lenz was placed over her, Anett would have still won, so it didn't really matter.

 

[Vagabond]

I think I recall in a discussion before that even if Lenz was placed over her, Anett would have still won, so it didn't really matter.

I believe that the discussion was about Dagmar Lurz, not Sandy Lenz and pertained to the effect of the Free Skate, not the Short Program, on the overall results.

Pötzsch was third in the Free Skate, and Lenz was seventh.

Without doing any calculations but glancing at the results, I suspect that if Pötzsch had placed behind Lenz in the Free Skate and all other results in the competition had been the same, Linda Fratianne would have won the gold medal.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

If the points system in 1981 had been applied here, Fratianne would have been the champion, with Pötzsch in second, and Biellmann in third.

Linda Fratianne (CF = 1.8 points; SP = 0.4 points; FS = 2.0 points; OA = 4.2 points)
Anett Pötzsch (CF = 0.6 points; SP = 1.6 points; FS = 3.0 points; OA = 5.2 points)
Denise Biellmann (CF = 7.2 points; SP = 0.8 points; FS = 1.0 points; OA = 9.0 points)
Dagmar Lurz (CF = 1.2 points; SP = 2.0 points; FS = 6.0 points; OA = 9.2 points)
Lisa Marie Allen (CF = 4.8 points; SP = 1.2 points; FS = 4.0 points; OA = 10.0 points)
Emi Watanabe (CF = 2.4 points; SP = 3.2 points; FS = 5.0 points; OA = 10.6 points)

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Frau Mueller went all out to win over the Lake Placid audience with her music choices for Anett, using West Side Story for the short, and Funny Girl for the free.

The Canadian commentators on CTV, observed however, how the American audience barely responded to Anett Pötzsch's spirited free - skating, yet were effusive for Fratianne, Allen, and Lenz, by comparison.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

I love how Sandy Lenz was able to make Evy and Mary Scotvold's breezy choreography shine, whereas years later, Nancy Kerrigan would often look tense and stiff.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

I believe Pötzsch had struggled on the combination jump in the short program at the 1980 European Championships.

Why she and her coach didn't go for a more reliable triple salchow / double loop or triple toe walley / double loop instead baffles me to this day.

 

[bardtoob]

Why she and her coach didn't go for a more reliable triple salchow / double loop or triple toe walley / double loop instead baffles me to this day.

Annett probably could not land any triple or a 2A with her free leg forward.

 

[Maximillian]

Another thing to consider with Lenz is that the Olympics were her first and only Olympics/Worlds. She did not make any of the world teams throughout the '77-'80 quad and was not even placed on the '80 World team (4th place Nats. finisher Zayak was), so she had zero to nil 'street cred' even compared to other U.S. number 3s.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

Another thing to consider with Lenz is that the Olympics were her first and only Olympics/Worlds. She did not make any of the world teams throughout the '77-'80 quad and was not even placed on the '80 World team (4th place Nats. finisher Zayak was), so she had zero to nil 'street cred' even compared to other U.S. number 3s.

Which goes to show you how talented Lenz was, that she placed within the top ten in a veteran field, at her first international championship competition.

 

[olympic]

I agree w/ the standings for the top 3 at '80 Lake Placid in the SP - 1. Fratianne, 2. Biellmann, 3. Allen. But, I would've put Poetzsch in 6th behind both Lurz and Lenz.

Interesting point for a 'what-if' scenario in the ladies SP is what would the result have been had Watanabe knocked it out of the park in the SP. She botched the combo in real life. She was reigning world bronze medalist and has dream SS. I do think a clean performance would've easily pushed Poetzsch down in the SP. Susanna Driano (ITA) had also botched the SP but was '78 Worlds bronze medalist. Would a clean SP have also pushed Poetzsch down further?

 

[Seerek]

Priscilla Hill was injured for that 1979-80 season, she might have been a factor for an Olympic berth.

One question I have always had, was whether the ISU was already considering switching to factored placements before the 1979-80 season, or was this end result 'Exhibit A' for the change.

 

[bardtoob]

One question I have always had, was whether the ISU was already considering switching to factored placements before the 1979-80 season, or was this end result 'Exhibit A' for the change.

The ISU was well aware that the skater with the most points did not necessarily win with, of course, the final victim being a bitter 1994 Olympic Judge named Jan Hoffman.

 

[savchenkoboss]

What on earth was Poetzsch planning for the combo. Surely she wasn't planning a double loop-double toe was she? Then again I never see her do jump combination even in long programs so she might not be a good combination jumper so maybe that is what she was planning.

 

[savchenkoboss]

I am not sure why there wasnt more controversy about Lenz's scoring at these Games than Fratianne not winning. IMO Fratianne's loss was easy to understand, she lost due to Poetzsch being better in figures, she beat Poetzsch in both the short and long, even though in the long they basically skated the same. I am not sure where there is any confusion from. Fratianne always lost to Poetzsch unless she bombed (she bombed at both 77 and 79 worlds) due to figures. It was simply Frank Caroll invented propoganda for their to be any so called "controversy" at all.

Instead the controversy should have been focusing on why the stunning Lenz did not get much higher scores in the short and long programs. Being weak in figures and with no triples she could never have medaled, but there should have been a raging controversy why she did not get much higher scores than she did.

 

[berthesghost]

I love how you answer your own questions!

If Anett bombs like she did in the LP SP, Linda wins. If Sandy is scored appropriately, she still can’t win anything but she can push Anett down ensuring a Linda win. If Sandy isn’t underscored and Anett propped up, how are they going to prevent Linda from beating her?

 

[savchenkoboss]

I love how you answer your own questions!

If Anett bombs like she did in the LP SP, Linda wins. If Sandy is scored appropriately, she still can’t win anything but she can push Anett down ensuring a Linda win. If Sandy isn’t underscored and Anett propped up, how are they going to prevent Linda from beating her?

But Poetzsch did not bomb the SP like she did the LP of the 77 and 79 worlds (actually the short too in both). She simply did a double-double combination. Trenary did the same at the 1990 worlds which was far worse since it was 1990, not 1980, and still won.

I agree 100% Lenz should have been over Poetzsch in the short, and I have never looked at the exact point totals to determine for sure if that would lose her the gold medal, although it was close enough it is certainly possible. I would have had Lenz 3rd to only Fratianne and Biellmann and if she did a triple combo instead of a double axel combo I probably would have had her 1st. However we need to be realistic and think of the scope of skating at the time. As Maximillian said she had no street cred even for U.S #3 standards, most of the Europeans judges had probably never heard of her before. Given the context of skating at the time this was never going to in a million years happen.

 

[berthesghost]

I agree that this is more about Lurz than Lenz. Dagmar usually placed right behind Anett in figures, bested her in the sp and did worse in the lp.

77 Anett was 6th in sp with dagmar 3rd and Linda 1st as usual for the sp, and 3rd in lp right behind Linda.
78 Anett was a surprise 2nd in sp right behind Linda and 3rd in lp as usual. Dagmar bombed the sp.
79 Anett was 5th behind dagmar 4th and Linda’s 1st in sp and her usual 3rd in lp.
LPO Anett was 3rd in lp as usual but had she finished behind dagmar in the sp as she did in 79, would Linda win? I think that is what people are referring to.
At 80 worlds Anett was 6th in the sp to dagmar 4th and 2nd in lp right behind Linda, but here Linda didn’t win the sp as usual but came in 3rd.

With Anett always winning figures and Linda always beating her in the lp, it really is the sp results that tip the scale it seems in 4 year this horse race. If Anett bombed lps like you say, her lp ordinals certainly didn’t reflect it, always coming 3rd if she skated well or not. It’s her anywhere from 2nd to 6th sp results that are all over the place.

 

[skateboy]

What on earth was Poetzsch planning for the combo. Surely she wasn't planning a double loop-double toe was she? Then again I never see her do jump combination even in long programs so she might not be a good combination jumper so maybe that is what she was planning.

Double loop-triple toe.