U.S. Men 2024-25 news & updates

[hoptoad]

Thanks, that makes sense. Also, he puts a lot of emphasis on making students independent, so he probably doesn't think it's his role to hover.

 

[jlai]

Ashley has said repeatedly that Raf hates to travel. I can't remember the last time we saw him at a competition.

So he travelled with Nathan and then stopped?

 

[Private Citizen]

Boot issues nearly completely derailed Karen Chen's entire career.

Poor technique derailed Karen Chen's career. And if I had to speculate, her various boot issues were linked to her poor technique. The only skater I heard complain more about equipment problems was Surya Bonaly, who also had unusual technique issues. When nothing works for a skater, sometimes it's the skater and not the equipment.

I'm not implying that equipment problems don't exist - they're extremely common in skating. Rather, I'm pointing out that they are not used as an excuse for a bye.

I'm dubious of these equipment problem claims because they're a continuation of what has been a gradual downward slide over a number of years. We've gone from no quad attempt to no triple axel and even some of the easier triples now looking labored and inconsistent. Age catches up with all of us. Brown is 30. It's normal to start to see some decline in elite skaters at this age. I don't think he's deliberately lying or has any bad intentions, but I do wonder if he and his team are taking a rosy of the situation, attributing perfectly normal physical decline to boot issues. Like all of us, maybe they're trying to attribute blame for a frustrating situation to a controllable factor, when the reality is that it's largely uncontrollable and needs to be accepted as the new normal. Repeating just for avoidance of doubt, I don't think there are any bad intentions or deliberate malice here.

 

[hoptoad]

I basically agree with PC. I'm not sure what Jason has to gain from going to worlds. He's a quality skater, but his tech content is no longer competitive unless it's a splatfest. And now even those with "bad skates" these days sometimes have fairly high tech content.

I think he has an outside chance at one of three spots for the US next year, but I don't see him skating better at the next Olympics than his past ones . . . . Is that what he's going for?

I don't think anyone should be pressured to retire, but it seems he has more to lose than gain at the moment if he's not skating his best. (If he returns to previous years' excellent though quadless form, that's another story.)

 

[On My Own]

Poor technique derailed Karen Chen's career.

Jumping bigger than most other ladies who had barely rotated and pre-rotated jumps that were never given proper scores isn't a career getting derailed due to bad technique. It falls more under the category of "why bother".

 

[Private Citizen]

Jumping bigger than most other ladies who had barely rotated and pre-rotated jumps that were never given proper scores isn't a career getting derailed due to bad technique. It falls more under the category of "why bother".

Tangent, but Chen herself has talked about her poor technique and wishing she had paid more attention to learning to rotate in a "proper" way during her formative years. I can't find the link, but I remember the article and commending her self-awareness.

 

[On My Own]

Tangent, but Chen herself has talked about her poor technique and wishing she had paid more attention to learning to rotate in a "proper" way during her formative years. I can't find the link, but I remember the article and commending her self-awareness.

Yes, she didn't use to close early enough during the jump, a timing that should have been fixed ASAP by her tech coaches as she grew up.

It's not "poor technique" in the same way as never even learning how to take off properly. She still did most of the things correctly. Using her own words against her, especially in the context of trash technique a la Evgenia Medvedeva or Satoko Miyahara or Ashley Wagner's sals and toe loops being hilariously over-rewarded in comparison is quite silly.

 

[Private Citizen]

Yes, she didn't use to close early enough during the jump, a timing that should have been fixed ASAP by her tech coaches as she grew up.

It's not "poor technique" in the same way as never even learning how to take off properly. She still did most of the things correctly. Using her own words against her, especially in the context of trash technique a la Evgenia Medvedeva or Satoko Miyahara or Ashley Wagner's sals and toe loops being hilariously over-rewarded in comparison is quite silly.

None of those others skaters talked about boot problems nearly as much as Karen Chen did, though. My point was: it wasn't the equipment, it was (most likely) her.... Same as for Jason Brown. He may genuinely believe it's equipment, just as Karen Chen may have. I'm skeptical that this is reality.

But, FWIW, I mostly agree with you and prefer Chen's self-awareness to Wagner's constant looks of shock and complaints. Her technique was far worse, even if it scored slightly better. I'm not sure I'd ever have given any jump of hers positive GOE.

 

[On My Own]

Wagner's loop was good, and had decent lift on flip/lutz. She, much like many others with that signature toe-loop cheat, had problems with sal and axel. Axel used to be better when she did a sequence, because the timing ended up forcing her to kick up better.

Not that I really cared for her skating, and despise her commentary whether the 'sassy' tweets or the very little I've had the displeasure of hearing in videos/snippets of her podcasts.

 

[flyingsit]

Yeah, but Wagner never did an actual triple lutz in her life. She took off from the same shallow inside edge that Cohen did forever.

 

[layman]

None of those others skaters talked about boot problems nearly as much as Karen Chen did, though. My point was: it wasn't the equipment, it was (most likely) her.... Same as for Jason Brown. He may genuinely believe it's equipment, just as Karen Chen may have. I'm skeptical that this is reality.

But, FWIW, I mostly agree with you and prefer Chen's self-awareness to Wagner's constant looks of shock and complaints. Her technique was far worse, even if it scored slightly better. I'm not sure I'd ever have given any jump of hers positive GOE.

Karen Chen and Jason Brown do not pre-rotate their jumps. In my book that is good technique.

I think Karen's comments (which were taken out of context) were comparing her technique to that of the Russians and wishing that she had "Russian" technique to compete with them. Little did Karen know that the Russian technique relied on drugs, starvation diets/constant weight monitoring, puberty blocking, constant injuries resulting from in-sufficient nutrition, very short skating careers and judges/officials looking the other way.

 

[olympic]

Slight derail from the current topic for a couple of Qs about Torgy:

Is RA his full-time coach now?
Did he ever compete with a 4S? I seem to remember he attempted them a couple of seasons ago (?) I think if he added one to his arsenal, he'd really matter in the World standings.

 

[Sylvia]

Slight derail from the current topic for a couple of Qs about Torgy:

Is RA his full-time coach now?
Did he ever compete with a 4S? I seem to remember he attempted them a couple of seasons ago (?) I think if he added one to his arsenal, he'd really matter in the World standings.

From Brandon Frazier's Nationals recap post yesterday he seems to make clear that Team Raf coaches Andrew and he is there with him in a supporting role: https://www.instagram.com/p/DFV7zYyRCfL/

In addition I had the privilege to watch Andrew continue to excel in his career this weekend. To watch him transform from the kid I met years ago in southern Florida into the man that he is today is remarkable.
My hats off to him and @team__raf on everything they are doing with their skaters

Andrew landed 4S cleanly in his SP at 2023 Lombardia Trophy and was practicing the jump at 2020 Nationals (links are in post #15 of his fan thread): https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/threads/andrew-torgashev-cheer-thread.111535/#post-6588225

I think he'll likely stick to his jump layout of repeating 4T (new at Nationals) & 3A in his FS for the rest of the season -- why mess with muscle memory at this point? I couldn't have been more thrilled and proud watching Andrew compete so well in Wichita and I was very glad I got the chance to tell him so at the Wichita airport yesterday.
ETA that I've since posted my airport photo in Andrew's fan thread.

 

[Rukia]

From Brandon Frazier's Nationals recap post yesterday he seems to make clear that Team Raf coaches Andrew and he is there with him in a supporting role: https://www.instagram.com/p/DFV7zYyRCfL/

Andrew landed 4S cleanly in his SP at 2023 Lombardia Trophy and was practicing the jump at 2020 Nationals (links are in post #15 of his fan thread): https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/threads/andrew-torgashev-cheer-thread.111535/#post-6588225

I think he'll likely stick to his jump layout of repeating 4T (new at Nationals) & 3A in his FS for the rest of the season -- why mess with muscle memory at this point? I couldn't have been more thrilled and proud watching Andrew compete so well in Wichita and I was very glad I got the chance to tell him so at the Wichita airport yesterday.

I was just going through some old vids I had and found his short from Lombardia 2023 lol. The quad sal was his second jump and it was gorgeous too. However he got re-injured and seemed to have issues with it (well with both his quads) after that. I definitely think he should stick with his current layout though. He added a second quad, and there's really no reason to change it at this point.

Also very happy you got to talk to him at the airport. Here's to hoping he keeps this momentum going for the rest of the season.

 

[Carolla5501]

I’m recall hearing an interview with Raf after Nathan’s Olympic gold medal where he said that he was no longer traveling to competitions. I think he is still coaching, but you better have somebody else sit beside you at the boards wherever you’re competing

maybe he’ll feel different differently for the Olympics, but it sounded pretty definite.

 

[Sylvia]

Is he retired or semi-retired? Not travelling at the moment?
Does Ilia still work with him sometimes? Who else?

AFAIK, Arutyunyan has not traveled to competitions with his students since Nathan retired (ETA: I was wrong - refer to @cailuj365's post #928 below). He still coaches and teaches in seminars/camps - most recently at Great Park Ice earlier this month: https://www.instagram.com/reel/DEk4G6pSQx9/

Taira Shinohara moved to Team Raf -- includes Vera Arutyunyan, Nadia Kanaeva, Hov Mkrtchian who was with Shinohara along with juniors Sergei Evseev & Michael Jin in Wichita -- this past fall when he started college at UC Irvine.

Mkrtchian was a student of Raf's - his ISU bio: https://www.isuresults.com/bios/isufs00007872.htm

Junior pewter medalist Kirk Haugeto tagged Team Raf in his Nationals recap post (Alina Milevska choreographed his SP in Irvine, CA and he has made periodic trips there to work on his 3A): https://www.instagram.com/p/DFT5tNxRAI0/

ETA - here's Ilia with Rafael and Shae-Lynn Bourne at GPI in November 2024: https://x.com/The_Rinks/status/1854223994687291832

 

[Vagabond]

Ilia Malinin: ‘I have a little more pressure on myself. I don’t think I’m really that far away from everyone’

Figure skating’s ‘quad god’ takes aim at a third straight US national title starting on Saturday, but for the first time as the incumbent world champion

www.theguardian.com

For me, the most interesting tidbit is this:

But after a somewhat “late” start to the sport – his parents didn’t let him start until he was six and a half

I like them even more than I already did.

 

[Allskate]

I'm dubious of these equipment problem claims because they're a continuation of what has been a gradual downward slide over a number of years. We've gone from no quad attempt to no triple axel and even some of the easier triples now looking labored and inconsistent. Age catches up with all of us. Brown is 30. It's normal to start to see some decline in elite skaters at this age. I don't think he's deliberately lying or has any bad intentions, but I do wonder if he and his team are taking a rosy of the situation, attributing perfectly normal physical decline to boot issues. Like all of us, maybe they're trying to attribute blame for a frustrating situation to a controllable factor, when the reality is that it's largely uncontrollable and needs to be accepted as the new normal. Repeating just for avoidance of doubt, I don't think there are any bad intentions or deliberate malice here.

One can have both equipment problems and physical issues (without one causing the other). Jason and his team are not oblivious to the impact of time and wear and tear on his body. Jason did a podcast interview two or three years ago and talked about the challenge of injuries and health and age. He admitted he had chronic injury issues, including back issues. He had assumed he would retire after the last Olympics and kind of surprised himself. He wasn't quite ready to leave competition but also wanted to do shows. He was hoping that doing more shows and less competitions would not just be enjoyable but help minimize injury problems because he wouldn't be training to be in top form for as long each year. He seemed to know that things might get worse, though, and said that he would take it year by year and see if it worked and he could still compete. It's worked so far, with fifth place finishes at Worlds and helping to earn spots for the following year. But, he may have run out of luck.

 

[Sylvia]

Cross-posting this link from Andrew's fan thread (he has shared 9 photos):

Andrew Torgashev on Instagram: "Wichita 2025 ✅ The result of hard work, unwavering commitment and a Super support system of mentors, family and friends 10 years ago I won my Junior Title in Greensboro, I am happy to still be skating and pursuing m

573 likes, 42 comments - andrewtorg on January 28, 2025: "Wichita 2025 ✅ The result of hard work, unwavering commitment and a Super support system of mentors, family and friends 10 years ago I won my Junior Title in Greensboro, I am happy to still be skating and pursuing my goals after many...

www.instagram.com

His message:

Wichita 2025

The result of hard work, unwavering commitment and a Super support system of mentors, family and friends

10 years ago I won my Junior Title in Greensboro, I am happy to still be skating and pursuing my goals after many years of churning through the mud.

My biggest thank you to my coach Raf @team__raf , thank you for guiding and teaching me. I appreciate your work and am very grateful for the trajectory you put my career on. I will continue to work my best and continue achieving results

Without my family none of this would be possible , I am grateful to my parents for supporting me and allowing me the opportunity to live out my dreams

To My homie Brandon , thanks for being on the journey with me, let’s keep running it back

Feeling grateful for all those having an impact in my life and inspiring me to be a better athlete and person every day.

I will keep on keeping on and will see you guys next time

-Pizza King

 

[On My Own]

Yeah, but Wagner never did an actual triple lutz in her life. She took off from the same shallow inside edge that Cohen did forever.

Sure, but when someone says they'd never give her +GOE, I disagree. Her loop was good, out of transitions many times too. The flip was fine. The Lutz was fine, minus the edge. Axel, depended. The sal and toe loop pretty much always deserved to be penalised, though, but those are two flawed jumps, compared to nearly all of Medvedeva's and especially Miyahara's.

 

[olympic]

I wouldn't think Torgy would change up his jump layout this year, but thinking ahead to the Olympic year, I wonder if he would consider adding a 4S ...

 

[caseyedwards]

Karen Chen and Jason Brown do not pre-rotate their jumps. In my book that is good technique.

I think Karen's comments (which were taken out of context) were comparing her technique to that of the Russians and wishing that she had "Russian" technique to compete with them. Little did Karen know that the Russian technique relied on drugs, starvation diets/constant weight monitoring, puberty blocking, constant injuries resulting from in-sufficient nutrition, very short skating careers and judges/officials looking the other way.

Yawn!

 

[Sylvia]

I wouldn't think Torgy would change up his jump layout this year, but thinking ahead to the Olympic year, I wonder if he would consider adding a 4S ...

Men's post-FS press conference video -- Torgashev replied to Phil Hersh's question after the 6-min. mark "... I just want to continue putting more content in there and performing at this level": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXDTSuH2Bcs&t=358s
ETA: Later, Andrew says he plans to stick to the two [quad] toes in the free for the rest of this season, in addition to maximizing points, refining his programs, etc.

 

[caseyedwards]

I basically agree with PC. I'm not sure what Jason has to gain from going to worlds. He's a quality skater, but his tech content is no longer competitive unless it's a splatfest. And now even those with "bad skates" these days sometimes have fairly high tech content.

I think he has an outside chance at one of three spots for the US next year, but I don't see him skating better at the next Olympics than his past ones . . . . Is that what he's going for?

I don't think anyone should be pressured to retire, but it seems he has more to lose than gain at the moment if he's not skating his best. (If he returns to previous years' excellent though quadless form, that's another story.)

It must be nice to be called the best and great having no jumps. Compared to Malinin. Probably enjoys the media and All US judges US skating elite saying he’s actually the best and much better than Malinin

 

[kwanfan1818]

I thought after the 2022 Olympics, or maybe even before, Arutunian was talking about retiring completely, partly because travel had been old for a decade. So hanging on to do some coaching and advising, while building a team around him, but punting travel altogether seems like a better transition to eventual retirement for everyone. (Including his wife, who may have put her foot down about the retirement thing, not for the cash, but to keep him busy.)

To me the most story about Arutunian was what Chen wrote in his book when his skates broke down at the Olympics. Arutunian took them and repaired them well enough for Chen to feel confident, as well as his repairs working. That always gets me so verklempt.

 

[peibeck]

@Rukia I think we need to go in together and get Torgy a present:

https://a.co/d/32L3buU

 

[Rukia]

@Rukia I think we need to go in together and get Torgy a present:

https://a.co/d/32L3buU

perfect thing to gift him in boston

 

[cailuj365]

So he travelled with Nathan and then stopped?

Raf went to 2022 Junior Worlds and 2023 Worlds in Japan, because I remember him in the Kiss & Cry with Ilia. He also had skaters who he was the primary coach for in those competitions (Gogolev for 2022 Junior Worlds, Torgashev for 2023 Worlds), so he didn't travel just for Ilia. Ilia does go travel to him a few times a year, it seems.

 

[TanithandBenFan]

@Rukia I think we need to go in together and get Torgy a present:

https://a.co/d/32L3buU

Take my contribution!

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

@Rukia I think we need to go in together and get Torgy a present:

https://a.co/d/32L3buU

Torgy is currently at the harem and there’s no Internet service so…… pop off