2023–24 Canadian Ice Dance: News and Updates

[Karen-W]

Great summary. I totally agree with you regarding the novice teams. I was quite surprised that they sent a novice team to JGP #1 Bangkok before they saw them skate at the NextGen camp, especially when there are known teams that are significantly better. Novice Nationals was a little disappointing last year as the top teams seemed weaker than previous years and they continue to show it through Jr. But they have time to develop. Just seems like SC jumped the gun on sending them, especially when there are teams in the regular Junior dance comp that are stronger and may be added to the NextGen team.

My gut says that Lewis/McMillan were probably penciled in for Bangkok along with Veillon/Brandys, but that whatever reason is behind them withdrawing from the Next Gen simulated competition is serious enough to have meant they wouldn't be ready for the first JGP. Skate Canada clearly intended on sending their strongest junior skaters from last season to Bangkok - which is why Morita, Long and Shi got the assignments in Men and Women.

 

[RoseRed]

My gut says that Lewis/McMillan were probably penciled in for Bangkok along with Veillon/Brandys, but that whatever reason is behind them withdrawing from the Next Gen simulated competition is serious enough to have meant they wouldn't be ready for the first JGP. Skate Canada clearly intended on sending their strongest junior skaters from last season to Bangkok - which is why Morita, Long and Shi got the assignments in Men and Women.

That would make sense. And entries would have been submitted before the NextGen comp happened, so it makes sense none of the new teams would be there.

 

[Yyzskater]

Is Gover/French skating for the UK or Canada? UK would give them way more opportunities than in the crowded field in Canada.

It seems several teams in the regular comp are representing other countries... Finland, Brazil, Czech, Spain. Etc. So I don't know how many teams from the regular competition that's SC could pull to fill those JGP spots.

 

[Dobre]

Is Gover/French skating for the UK or Canada?

Canada.

Meet our Teams — Ice Dance Elite

www.icedanceelite.ca

UK would give them way more opportunities than in the crowded field in Canada.

Great Britain requires the partner to live in Great Britain in order to get citizenship so we don't see that happen very often with half British teams.

Also I think Canadian junior dance is heading into a rebuilding phase.

 

[haribobo]

Top summer scores so far

SENIOR DANCE
Fabbri/Ayer 183 QUEBEC
Hensen/Lickers 168 ONTARIO JULY
Lanaghan/Razgulajevs 166 LAKE PLACID
Gauthier/Thieren 165 QUEBEC
Bashynska/Beaumont 163 LAKE PLACID
Robinson/Portz 161 LAKE PLACID
Bronsard/Richmond 160 QUEBEC

JUNIOR DANCE
Nguyen/Giang 154 NEXTGEN
Sabatini-Speciale/Buelow 146 NEXTEN
Korneva/MacDonald 146 AUGUST ONTARIO
Martel/Oddson 143 WILD ROSE
Veillon/Brandys 142 QUEBEC
Fournier/Zhu 137 QUEBEC
Goodstadt/Bennett 132 NEXTGEN
Pehl/Yu 130 JULY ONTARIO

 

[puglover]

Man, I don't know any of the names in Junior Dance. I need to watch more JGPs or something.

 

[kalamalka]

Man, I don't know any of the names in Junior Dance. I need to watch more JGPs or something.

Lots of new teams this year - quite a few skaters who were part of different teams last year. Having watched JGP last year wouldn't help much.

 

[Sylvia]

Chloe Nguyen & Brendan Giang carried their momentum from winning the NextGen comp. to taking silver in their JGP debut last week in Linz, Austria - Chloe shared pics from the victory ceremony: https://www.instagram.com/p/CwvnGDmx5UU/
Excerpt from Skate Canada's recap:

Nguyen and Giang were also making their international debut as a team and laid down two great skates to finish second with a total score of 144.75. [...] The second Canadian ice dance team of Savanna Martel and William Oddson, both of Calgary, Alta., finished 9th overall with a total score of 118.76.
“Because it’s our first international together, and our first season together, I think we just came in not expecting much, but I think we’re both really happy with how we did,” said Giang following their free skate.
Nguyen added: “We just wanted to come out and have a good skate and we did that. We’ve been putting out good skates in practice and we just wanted to do the same thing here.”

IDC's interview with Emma Goodstadt and USA-born Christian Bennett who debuted today on the JGP in Istanbul:

New Team Series: Emma Goodstadt & Christian Bennett | Ice-dance.com

www.ice-dance.com

 

[Colonel Green]

Nadiia's latest vlog, which includes some (distant) glimpses of other dancers' programs as well.

Not unexpectedly, this is shaping up to be a quiet season for Canadian junior dance. Marjorie and Zach's withdrawal from ACI, meanwhile, left us without a major team at our home Challenger, but we obviously don't lack for firepower at the senior level right now.

 

[tony]

Here's an update:

http://www.crdsc-sdrcc.ca/resource_centre/pdf/English/1053_SDRCC%2023-0633.pdf

Soucisse and Firus inquired to make the switch from Canada to Ireland in January of this year, and started looking into the process. Michael Slipchuk gave them a go-ahead, and directed them to the proper channels. Skate Canada decided they would not release them, and told them to consider it after May 1, 2024. There is (was) a release policy on the Skate Canada website that was completely different than the release procedure sent to them, which in the non-published version gave the CEO complete discretion over releases. Skate Canada argued that the website was outdated by years. There had been an email sent with a different header and a bunch of attachments in 2021, and buried among it (not noted in the email title or body from the sounds of it) was the 'new' policy.

Skate Canada also then tried to say that the 'one year' applies to the time of request of the transfer, but the arbitrator found otherwise and they are now free of duty to Skate Canada as of November 28.

There's also a tidbit in there, not going into detail, about how money was given to 'a pair that had previously competed for Denmark' and for that reason, opportunities and funding decreased for Athletes in Canada. Whatever that means.

 

[Wyliefan]

"For that reason, and for other reasons."

 

[tony]

"For that reason, and for other reasons."

Specifically pointing out that as a reason, though. I guess the 'other reasons' could be the others who have country-swapped like Lauriault & LeGac, but why single out FB/S?

 

[Wyliefan]

No reason, which is why I think it's something else. The way it was phrased -- "other reasons that will not be set out in this award" -- makes it sound like it might be something no one wanted to get into publicly. Perhaps bad decisions by the federation, or less money available to the federation, or something along those lines.

 

[champ]

Here's an update:

http://www.crdsc-sdrcc.ca/resource_centre/pdf/English/1053_SDRCC%2023-0633.pdf

Soucisse and Firus inquired to make the switch from Canada to Ireland in January of this year, and started looking into the process. Michael Slipchuk gave them a go-ahead, and directed them to the proper channels. Skate Canada decided they would not release them, and told them to consider it after May 1, 2024. There is (was) a release policy on the Skate Canada website that was completely different than the release procedure sent to them, which in the non-published version gave the CEO complete discretion over releases. Skate Canada argued that the website was outdated by years. There had been an email sent with a different header and a bunch of attachments in 2021, and buried among it (not noted in the email title or body from the sounds of it) was the 'new' policy.

Skate Canada also then tried to say that the 'one year' applies to the time of request of the transfer, but the arbitrator found otherwise and they are now free of duty to Skate Canada as of November 28.

There's also a tidbit in there, not going into detail, about how money was given to 'a pair that had previously competed for Denmark' and for that reason, opportunities and funding decreased for Athletes in Canada. Whatever that means.

 

[Kateri]

I wonder if this is related to Ted's little monologue during one of today's JGPs about how certain Canadian skaters wanted to skate for another nation, despite the fact the Canadian fed had paid for their entire training to this point, and the fed might possibly be feeling rather pissed off about it.

 

[tony]

I wonder if this is related to Ted's little monologue during one of today's JGPs about how certain Canadian skaters wanted to skate for another nation, despite the fact the Canadian fed had paid for their entire training to this point, and might possibly be feeling rather pissed off about it.

He specifically said Ireland, and it was like he couldn’t wait for Mark to stop talking about it (and Mark had an American partner!)

Definitely the reason why it was brought up, I’d say

 

[Sylvia]

I wonder if this is related to Ted's little monologue during one of today's JGPs about how certain Canadian skaters wanted to skate for another nation, despite the fact the Canadian fed had paid for their entire training to this point, and might possibly be feeling rather pissed off about it.

He specifically said Ireland, and it was like he couldn’t wait for Mark to stop talking about it (and Mark had an American partner!)

Definitely the reason why it was brought up, I’d say

Starting here in the replay (just under 5 mins. long): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8-ydSPqrBY&t=615s
Ted mentions "we had a team that had been trained in Canada - all their lives - and are now representing Ireland" just after 12 mins.

 

[Kateri]

He specifically said Ireland, and it was like he couldn’t wait for Mark to stop talking about it (and Mark had an American partner!)

Definitely the reason why it was brought up, I’d say

I forgot he actually said Ireland, but yes. He was basically naming names, at that point.

 

[Karen-W]

I don't know if I got a "pissed off" vibe from Ted. I think both Ted and Mark tried to present both sides fairly and neutrally.

 

[Wyliefan]

I agree, @Karen-W. I listened to the whole thing and it wasn't too bad. Ted (and Mark, too) tried to look at it from all perspectives. Ted did get a little snarky just at the end of it (with the suggestion that they're just "there for themselves" and not to help the country at all). But most of it was fine.

 

[marbri]

Here's an update:

http://www.crdsc-sdrcc.ca/resource_centre/pdf/English/1053_SDRCC%2023-0633.pdf

Soucisse and Firus inquired to make the switch from Canada to Ireland in January of this year, and started looking into the process. Michael Slipchuk gave them a go-ahead, and directed them to the proper channels. Skate Canada decided they would not release them, and told them to consider it after May 1, 2024. There is (was) a release policy on the Skate Canada website that was completely different than the release procedure sent to them, which in the non-published version gave the CEO complete discretion over releases. Skate Canada argued that the website was outdated by years. There had been an email sent with a different header and a bunch of attachments in 2021, and buried among it (not noted in the email title or body from the sounds of it) was the 'new' policy.

Skate Canada also then tried to say that the 'one year' applies to the time of request of the transfer, but the arbitrator found otherwise and they are now free of duty to Skate Canada as of November 28.

There's also a tidbit in there, not going into detail, about how money was given to 'a pair that had previously competed for Denmark' and for that reason, opportunities and funding decreased for Athletes in Canada. Whatever that means.

Are you referring to #6 under facts? :

"In 2019, a skate dancing pair that previously competed for Denmark joined Skate Canada after being released from Denmark. For that reason, and other reasons that will not be set out in this award, opportunities and funding decreased for the Athletes in Canada. "

Because that just reads to me that they are stating that it is a fact that funding and opportunities for the Athletes (meaning Soucisse and Firus) decreased then it seems to me could just be about them getting bumped down the list. The reality is S/F were stagnant for years in their placing at Canadian Nationals and when FB/S came in they placed ahead of them. And when Lajoie/Lagha moved to Seniors they placed ahead of them. I imagine, based on the timing of their decision (mid january 2023) when once again another new team competing at Nationals in Senior ice dance, Laurialt/LeGac, placed ahead of them they had a chat with Carol about skating for Ireland.

Also note in a five year period, from 2018-2023 they got $141,000 in funding from SC and SC covered costs associated with competition. That is listed in fact #5.

I read the whole thing, it reads to me the main issue was how one determines the waiting period and they won arguing they should use the ISU regulation about not competing internationally for one year. S/C and ISAI clearly want them to compete this season where is seems Skate Canada was trying to argue they have to sit out this season. I don't read anything nefarious in this, just a legal argument between the two sides and they came out on top.

And kudos to them, good luck competing for Ireland.

Although I am curious about the final section regarding costs. Did they submit their letters in June and because they won does that mean they get to send all their legal bills and associated costs to Skate Canada?

 

[Karen-W]

I think Ted probably could have framed his response a LITTLE bit better, not just in pointing out the team that had recently switched from Canada to Ireland, but also noting that two other top Canadian dance teams had switched from France and Denmark to Canada within the last 5 years.

 

[Kateri]

I don't know if I got a "pissed off" vibe from Ted. I think both Ted and Mark tried to present both sides fairly and neutrally.

Ah, sorry, that was my unclear wording. I didn't get the impression Ted was pissed off, but that he was aware that the Canadian fed were pissed off.

 

[marbri]

I just listened to the Ted and Mark conversation at the point in the video people linked to and I first hear Mark bring up the topic. I don't see why in the conversation Ted should be expected to bring up FB/S and L/L. In fact Ted seems to say he can see both sides of these situations.

I also agree with them discussing the hope that these skaters who switch to get these opportunities give back to the smaller federation who takes them in. In this case the Irish Federation.

I don't feel bad for Soucisse/Firus and I don't understand why anyone would. SC sent them, and paid for, to three international competitions fall 2022 and clearly in January 2023 when they competed at Nationals they still intended to skate for Canada . Until they saw the results. So the fact that they can compete internationally for Ireland 10 months after Nationals is not what I would call a hardship. At all.

 

[Wyliefan]

I don't think anyone said we should feel bad for them or that this is a hardship? Personally, I'm very glad and thankful that they have this opportunity. I'm sure they are too.

 

[marbri]

I think it's implied by some for sure.

 

[Wyliefan]

I can't imagine why. I would have felt a little bad for them if they were given the impression they'd be released in a year and then were held to the other policy and had to wait two. But that's sorted out now, so it's all good.

 

[Karen-W]

I think it's implied by some for sure.

Who do you think is implying that it's any sort of hardship for them?

I could see an argument that it would have been an unfair and undue hardship to them for Skate Canada to refuse to grant them their release until May 2024 - especially when Skate Canada has been more than happy to benefit from the Danish skating fed and the FFSG only holding FBSoer and Les Gacs for the one year required by the ISU - which is why FBSoer went to 2019 4CCs and Les Gacs went to 2022 4CCs representing Canada.

We've seen feds hold skaters hostage (most recent example being just today with Cimlova/Cirisano ending their partnership because the Russian fed refused to release him to skate for either Czechia or Italy because of their "investment" in his previous partnership with Khavronina), and just earlier this summer with the Belarusian fed holding Ivan Desyatov's release until the ransom of $25k was paid, and let's not forget the more famous examples of the FFSG refusing to release either Bruno Massot and Tiffany Zagorski. How much did the German fed have to pay for Bruno's release?

What bothers me is that the rich feds can afford to pay the ransom that other feds demand for their "investment" and then turn around and hold their own skaters hostage if they don't either repay the money (USFS with DeAnna Stellato, for example) or make them wait longer than the ISU's one year minimum. It's not right and it's not really fair to ANY of the parties involved - neither skaters nor federations.

 

[marbri]

Who do you think is implying that it's any sort of hardship for them?

I could see an argument that it would have been an unfair and undue hardship to them for Skate Canada to refuse to grant them their release until May 2024 - especially when Skate Canada has been more than happy to benefit from the Danish skating fed and the FFSG only holding FBSoer and Les Gacs for the one year required by the ISU - which is why FBSoer went to 2019 4CCs and Les Gacs went to 2022 4CCs representing Canada.

We've seen feds hold skaters hostage (most recent example being just today with Cimlova/Cirisano ending their partnership because the Russian fed refused to release him to skate for either Czechia or Italy because of their "investment" in his previous partnership with Khavronina), and just earlier this summer with the Belarusian fed holding Ivan Desyatov's release until the ransom of $25k was paid, and let's not forget the more famous examples of the FFSG refusing to release either Bruno Massot and Tiffany Zagorski. How much did the German fed have to pay for Bruno's release?

What bothers me is that the rich feds can afford to pay the ransom that other feds demand for their "investment" and then turn around and hold their own skaters hostage if they don't either repay the money (USFS with DeAnna Stellato, for example) or make them wait longer than the ISU's one year minimum. It's not right and it's not really fair to ANY of the parties involved - neither skaters nor federations.

But I don't think any of that applies to FB/S, Laur/Legac or S/F right?

 

[champ]

I agree, @Karen-W. I listened to the whole thing and it wasn't too bad. Ted (and Mark, too) tried to look at it from all perspectives. Ted did get a little snarky just at the end of it (with the suggestion that they're just "there for themselves" and not to help the country at all). But most of it was