ISU confirms more positive doping tests

[misskarne]

The Russians have fostered a culture of cheating in sports. For years, currently and they will in the future. So now it shows up in F S. AGAIN. They got banned in Track, ban the skaters too. Ban the whole nation from all sports until they agree to stop cheating.

Yes, because everyone knows the Americans are squeaky-clean and would never, ever do anything to gain an advantage. It's just pure hard work that at 33 Justin Gatlin is running personal bests, after twice being banned for drugs, times that are now faster than what he was running when he was busted for the drugs...

 

[Sylvia]

Links for reference:

ISU Communication No. 1970 (published 12 Oct 2015) - ISU ANTI-DOPING PROCEDURES to the ISU ANTI-DOPING RULES compiled in accordance with The World Anti-Doping Code 2015: http://www.isu.org/en/news-and-events/news/2015/10/isu-anti-doping-procedures
To read the full Communication (31 pages): http://static.isu.org/media/226178/1970-isu-anti-doping-procedures.pdf

(This Communication replaces ISU Communication No. 1941, effective October 12, 2015 - all changes are indicated in red: http://static.isu.org/media/226175/1970-isu-anti-doping-procedures-with-track-changes.pdf )

ISU Testing Pool 2015/16 from January 1st 2016 (Figure Skaters are listed on page 3): http://static.isu.org/media/1012/tp_160101.pdf

Relevant section of ISU site: http://www.isu.org/en/clean-sport

 

[Xela M]

For people who live in some kind of black and white utopia (or in cuckooland) here is what John McEnroe said about using legal performance enhancing drugs...

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/35797018

 

[kosjenka]

10 pages of nonsense, mainly from posters who LUUUUUUUURVE the Russian skaters, those who want to pseudo-intellectualize this matter, nonsense discussions of science without knowledge of sciene and those who want so much to be polite.

The Russians have fostered a culture of cheating in sports. For years, currently and they will in the future. So now it shows up in F S. AGAIN. They got banned in Track, ban the skaters too. Ban the whole nation from all sports until they agree to stop cheating.

There is so much to read about this away from FSU and figure skating news. This country cheats, has always cheated and will cheat in the future in all sports.

And Lance Armstrong has a Russian passport he has never disclosed.

 

[jlai]

I
It is from Wikipedia, Category: sportspeople in doping cases by nationality https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Sportspeople_in_doping_cases_by_nationality
There are 224 American sportspeople in doping cases, 147 Russian (9 Soviet) but I don't think US is a nation with a lot of moral hazard

The number does not mean anything. I would expect Kazakhstan to be low in the number caught doping because they don't have as many athletes to begin with. I'd be curious to know the number caught doping per nation, as a percent of athletes competing from that nation.

 

[bardtoob]

And Lance Armstrong has a Russian passport he has never disclosed.

It's convenient to mention Armstrong by not Vinokourov, isn't it?

They were both neck and neck cheaters.

 

[ilovepaydays]

Yes, because everyone knows the Americans are squeaky-clean and would never, ever do anything to gain an advantage. It's just pure hard work that at 33 Justin Gatlin is running personal bests, after twice being banned for drugs, times that are now faster than what he was running when he was busted for the drugs...

There are plenty of American track and field fans like myself who are rooting for Usain Bolt to beat Gatlin again in Rio. Actually, I would love for Gatlin to not medal in the 100m, give that Andre De Grasse and Trayvon Bromell are showing so much promise so far this year.

Gatlin made me sick every time I saw him race last year. And then last month, Gatlin went on a Japanese TV show and broke Bolt's 100m world record with wind aided 9.45s. Unbelievable - and he did it in a Team USA kit and had an American flag around his neck afterwards.

 

[kosjenka]

@bardtoob nope. Cheaters are cheaters. Armstrong became global brand thanks to the results he got by cheating.
If Russians are all about industry of cheating - it would take YEARS to catch Bobrova and all the others with this substance. Like - Armstrong. Guy was dedicated. I am glad he got cough, and everybody else. and BTW - Armstrong is still lying about his cheating. I am not surprised other athletes are playing clueless. If Sharapova is honest about how this has happened to her - why is her team still working for her? They all should have been fired.

I recommend reading Agassi's autobiography, the chapters about his drug use and doping tests are hilarious. It makes a mockery of anti doping agencies and professional sport.

 

[PRlady]

There's a new NY Times story with answers to some of he questions raised here:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/14/s...prod=nytcore-iphone&smid=nytcore-iphone-share

Clearly this drug does enhance performance according to the WADA scientists and that's why it was banned.

And belatedly, what I posted above was a media analysis of what would make this a big figure skating story. So far, only one elite skater has been caught. If more skaters are implicated or the Russian team is severely affected, that's a story. That's all.

 

[skaterboi]

Yes, because everyone knows the Americans are squeaky-clean and would never, ever do anything to gain an advantage. It's just pure hard work that at 33 Justin Gatlin is running personal bests, after twice being banned for drugs, times that are now faster than what he was running when he was busted for the drugs...

There are American athletes who cheat but not with the encouragement and help from the American government, unlike Russia. They even had government thugs in the doping lad in Sochi intimidating technicians to throw away samples.

 

[ballettmaus]

Yes. Where morals are concerned. And truth. And good and bad and right and wrong.

If only the world were as simple...

 

[misskarne]

There are American athletes who cheat but not with the encouragement and help from the American government, unlike Russia. They even had government thugs in the doping lad in Sochi intimidating technicians to throw away samples.

Oh, come on, you don't actually believe that, do you?

If WADA was serious they'd be doing ALL of the countries. The US, China, yes, even Australia, I'm not naive enough to think that all our athletes are clean even if I hope they are. The US is huge, with lots of money and big pharmaceutical companies.

 

[skaterboi]

Oh, come on, you don't actually believe that, do you?

If WADA was serious they'd be doing ALL of the countries. The US, China, yes, even Australia, I'm not naive enough to think that all our athletes are clean even if I hope they are. The US is huge, with lots of money and big pharmaceutical companies.

Whatever you want to believe

 

[Vagabond]

Oh, come on, you don't actually believe that, do you?

I hope that you use the Internet to express a part of yourself that you would never show to anyone you met in real life.

 

[misskarne]

I hope that you use the Internet to express a part of yourself that you would never show to anyone you met in real life.

I would have no trouble having that response to anyone I met in real life who believed that. In fact, I have already said as much to people in real life!

 

[AYS]

In general, I think everything is a lot less centralized, institutionalized, and federation- or government-sanctioned in US sports than some other countries. Both on the good and bad side of things.

 

[Vagabond]

I would have no trouble having that response to anyone I met in real life who believed that. In fact, I have already said as much to people in real life!

 

[misskarne]

Sad as it is, doping is now a reality in a lot of sports. I refuse to watch road cycling any more for that very reason. I remember, in my naivete, thinking that Lance Armstrong was a hero and that Alexander Vinikourov was a brave tough guy, to win a stage of the Tour de France with 70 stitches! I was even one of those that firmly defending Armstrong, that USADA were on a witch-hunt. I have not watched the Tour de France since Cadel's heroics on the time trial won him his second title, and though I want so firmly to believe that Cadel is a good Aussie boy who'd never touch the stuff - there will always be for me that shadow of doubt. How could he be clean when everyone else is so dirty, and how could he beat the dirty ones if he himself was clean? (Though the French have never accused him, and they accuse practically everyone who wins Le Tour.)

In athletics it seems nearly as rife as in cycling. And anyone who thinks that the doping - particularly government-sanctioned doping - is confined to Russia is naive at best and sticking their head in the sand at worst. And I would not have a problem telling someone that.

 

[Willin]

There are American athletes who cheat but not with the encouragement and help from the American government, unlike Russia. They even had government thugs in the doping lad in Sochi intimidating technicians to throw away samples.

I think this is the main thing. The US sports federations and the USOC have NO formal connection to the US government, unlike many countries. This means that the US government has no control over individual athletes of sports groups in the US unless they break US laws/regulations or something of that nature.

In Russia and many other countries (even relatively clean ones), the government directly controls the Olympic committees of that country and have influence over the administration of individual sports. In most cases, the government has almost no control outside of the Olympics, but in Russia this is not the case. Because of that, a blight on more than one sport makes it seem like the entire athletics administration there is corrupt. That's not necessarily true, but it's the image that's portrayed in such a case.

Oh, come on, you don't actually believe that, do you?

If WADA was serious they'd be doing ALL of the countries. The US, China, yes, even Australia, I'm not naive enough to think that all our athletes are clean even if I hope they are. The US is huge, with lots of money and big pharmaceutical companies.

As I said in the thread about B/K, the reason Russia is getting increased scrutiny is because they have a history of institutionalized doping and one that is currently being investigated and evaluated for a scandal just last fall. If a country, federation, or athlete has a history of doping, they're under increased scrutiny; if they have a recent history of doping, that scrutiny will be even greater.

The US and Australia don't have a history with institutionalized doping known to WADA, just one with individual athletes and sports. So WADA has increase scrutiny on the individual sports and athletes, but not for all athletes from that country. Russia is under investigation for doping in many sports supported by a national lab, making that doping seem institutional, so WADA wants to know more about doping in all Russian sports, increasing scrutiny. Particularly since this doping scandal may affect the entire country's participation in Rio's summer Olympics WADA wants to see how widespread this is in Russia, meaning increased testing of all Russian athletes in all sports.

 

[misskarne]

As I said in the thread about B/K, the reason Russia is getting increased scrutiny is because they have a history of institutionalized doping and one that is currently being investigated and evaluated for a scandal just last fall. If a country, federation, or athlete has a history of doping, they're under increased scrutiny; if they have a recent history of doping, that scrutiny will be even greater.

The US and Australia don't have a history with institutionalized doping known to WADA, just one with individual athletes and sports. So WADA has increase scrutiny on the individual sports and athletes, but not for all athletes from that country. Russia is under investigation for doping in many sports supported by a national lab, making that doping seem institutional, so WADA wants to know more about doping in all Russian sports, increasing scrutiny. Particularly since this doping scandal may affect the entire country's participation in Rio's summer Olympics WADA wants to see how widespread this is in Russia, meaning increased testing of all Russian athletes in all sports.

And yet, they're not looking at China, who definitely have a state-controlled program. And the investigation into this drug came from a study fully funded by American interests, on a drug not approved in the US but approved in other countries.

Sorry, I ain't buying it. Something stinks here.

 

[aftershocks]

There's a new NY Times story with answers to some of he questions raised here:

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/14/s...prod=nytcore-iphone&smid=nytcore-iphone-share

Clearly this drug does enhance performance according to the WADA scientists and that's why it was banned.

And belatedly, what I posted above was a media analysis of what would make this a big figure skating story. So far, only one elite skater has been caught. If more skaters are implicated or the Russian team is severely affected, that's a story. That's all.

Tuk garners a mention in the linked NYTimes article, I suppose because she is a World champion. However, the article otherwise neglects to specifically mention figure skating as one of the sports notably affected by the meldonium ban, much less discuss Bobrova's meldonium-related travails as a mere ice dancer, 1/2 half of the Bobrova/Soloviev leading Russian ice dance team.

 

[Willin]

@misskarne
I don't see anything fishy here. China certainly has state-sponsored doping, but perhaps they're making new drugs at a rate that WADA can't ban them fast enough. Maybe other countries haven't bothered to investigate their drugs or don't know enough about their drugs to investigate them at all. Who knows - they may only being using vitamins and supplements to augment their already insane training and recruitment system. They might even get fake medical exemptions for the drugs. There's many explanations for why China hasn't gone through what Russia is.

{Removed based on Sylvia's comment below}

The US may have tipped WADA off on the drug not because the USOC or US track and field wanted Russia out of the competition, but maybe only because they were obliged to do so for any drug that could even possibly be performance enhancing. Perhaps the US study wasn't sent directly to WADA, but instead found it's way through WADA officials or a WADA doctor reading journal articles. A single individual may have sent the article to WADA, but that says nothing about that individual's intentions at all.

Before immediately saying "something stinks here," use Occam's razor: what explanation uses least assumptions? There are many possible easier explanations that make sense without any sabotage or conspiracy.

 

[Sylvia]

And the investigation into this drug came from a study fully funded by American interests, on a drug not approved in the US but approved in other countries.

The scientific study on meldonium or Mildronate (published April 5, 2015 by Dr. Thevis et al.) can be read here: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/dta.1788/full
From the end:

Acknowledgements
This project was supported in part by funding from the Partnership for Clean Competition Research Collaborative. The content of this publication does not necessarily reflect the views or policies of the Research Collaborative. Further support was received from the Federal Ministry of the Interior of the Federal Republic of Germany.

 

[love_skate2011]

I think this is the main thing. The US sports federations and the USOC have NO formal connection to the US government, unlike many countries. This means that the US government has no control over individual athletes of sports groups in the US unless they break US laws/regulations or something of that nature.

In Russia and many other countries (even relatively clean ones), the government directly controls the Olympic committees of that country and have influence over the administration of individual sports. In most cases, the government has almost no control outside of the Olympics, but in Russia this is not the case. Because of that, a blight on more than one sport makes it seem like the entire athletics administration there is corrupt. That's not necessarily true, but it's the image that's portrayed in such a case.



As I said in the thread about B/K, the reason Russia is getting increased scrutiny is because they have a history of institutionalized doping and one that is currently being investigated and evaluated for a scandal just last fall. If a country, federation, or athlete has a history of doping, they're under increased scrutiny; if they have a recent history of doping, that scrutiny will be even greater.

The US and Australia don't have a history with institutionalized doping known to WADA, just one with individual athletes and sports. So WADA has increase scrutiny on the individual sports and athletes, but not for all athletes from that country. Russia is under investigation for doping in many sports supported by a national lab, making that doping seem institutional, so WADA wants to know more about doping in all Russian sports, increasing scrutiny. Particularly since this doping scandal may affect the entire country's participation in Rio's summer Olympics WADA wants to see how widespread this is in Russia, meaning increased testing of all Russian athletes in all sports.

I suggest laying off too much western media press.

WADA has partnership with an american medical firm. now even Phyzer is involved. what does that tell you ? 1 they want to destroy any foreign competition, banning this will increase their international market share. 2 isnt that contradictory to your statement ? that means the US has control and agreement with a semi indipendent institution.

Russia does not have its own medical lab to create new drugs but China does, btw it isn't because of scrutiny , China has advanced doping and medicine as it is not being caught. this is plain witch hunt of russian athletes who wanted to get russian athletes as a sanction extension. The US and EU failed miserably to strip Russia of the World Cup hosting despite all facts and raids thus they are running after something else to compromise.


btw the mood of Russian athletes isnt down. This actually increased their anger and nationalistic sentiment on how they are being hunted. yesterday the dutch audience spectators at Heneveeren booed athletes from Russia during medal ceremonies. one Kulizhnikov who won 500 m speed skating this seasons overall tally despite his top podium was vacant, they are opening his B sample now as he only tested positive of meldonium during his 1000m win at Worlds, strange. He know already also this would happen, he has said every athlete was after him to tarnish his record from local to international athletes.

 

[aftershocks]

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/11/sports/tennis/effects-of-meldonium-on-athletes-are-hazy.html?

"Published studies say the drug, meldonium, may be effective in treating heart ailments, strokes, diabetes and Alzheimer’s disease, as well as in improving people’s moods. It even increases the sexual performance and sperm motility of boars."

OMG, if meldonium assists blood flow, and is a treatment for strokes and dementia, maybe it's good medicine for my 84-year-old Mom!

And that reference to meldonium having anything to do with improving sexual performance, regardless of it being in boars! I mean with the success that the pharmaceutical industry had with Viagra, I can just imagine the floodgates opening for eventual niche marketing of meldonium for those other than sports athletes.

 

[love_skate2011]

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/11/sports/tennis/effects-of-meldonium-on-athletes-are-hazy.html?

"Published studies say the drug, meldonium, may be effective in treating heart ailments, strokes, diabetes and Alzheimer’s disease, as well as in improving people’s moods. It even increases the sexual performance and sperm motility of boars."

OMG, if meldonium assists blood flow, and is a treatment for strokes and dementia, maybe it's good medicine for my 84-year-old Mom!

And that reference to meldonium having anything to do with improving sexual performance, regardless of it being in boars! I mean with the success that the pharmaceutical industry had with Viagra, I can just imagine the floodgates opening for eventual niche marketing of meldonium for those other than sports athletes.

this is basically serves 2 purpose removing medronate from international markets thus removing US pharmaceticals of more international competition, hegemony of holding international drugs and serves as a scapegoat of hunting and "aiding" more russian and eastern european athletes.
cmon even if russian track n field in Rio it wont compete. It wont do much damage to russian rio performance you just cut off an arm but their crown and jewels is other sports like wrestling, gymnastics, fencing etc.

 

[aftershocks]

^^ Not exactly clearly following your train of thought/ phrasing, altho' you seem to be making some interesting points (whether or not ultimately valid).

 

[love_skate2011]

funny how the russuphobe Hajo Seppelt, the german reporter who reported the russian athletics scandal
was escorted out by police , tried to record a closed session of the Council of the International Association of Athletics Federations and even tried continued recording in the doors peeping hole !

He was so pissed the IAAF delayed russian verdict to the coming month of May
that is epic priceless

http://tass.ru/en/sport/861754

Seppelt and his cameraman attempted to enter the conference room, where the report had been scheduled to be delivered to IAAF officials behind closed doors, but they were both stopped at the doors by security staff.

Although accredited, Seppelt tried to video record the conference, but was politely refused by the security, according to the correspondent.

 

[Sylvia]

The scientific study on meldonium or Mildronate (published April 5, 2015 by Dr. Thevis et al.) can be read here: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/dta.1788/full

Dr. Thevis is interviewed in the Cologne, Germany anti-doping lab. in which he works about meldonium (around the 6-minute mark) in the third part of Hajo Seppelt's and Florian Riesewieck's documentary series:
Doping: Top secret - Russia's red herrings [english version]
Published on Mar 8, 2016 - 3rd part of the documentary series about doping in athletics in ARD/WDR German TV (original german title: Geheimsache Doping: Russlands Täuschungsmanöver).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XGVKE3yrXs

ETA link to a detailed summary of this video: http://www.swimvortex.com/ard-shows...s-the-ioc-joins-autonomys-march-to-the-grave/

 

[Marco]

Wave of Positive Tests for Meldonium Adds to Doping Crisis by Christopher Clarey:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/14/s...ests-for-meldonium-adds-to-doping-crisis.html

From the end of the article:
"What seems evident is that with the high volume of meldonium cases now pending, there could be legal challenges as to whether the drug should have been banned by WADA in the first place."

Thanks Sylvia for the article.

I don't quite understand the closing logic of the article. Rightly or wrongly, it was banned. Anyone who took it after it became banned must face consequences of breaching the rules at the relevant time. If for whatever reason it is subsequently determined that the drug is to be removed from the banned list, then the athletes will be safe to take them AFTERWARDS.

If Russia or any other country or sport federation feels like the drug did not deserve to be banned, did it/ they say anything when WADA announced the ban? Especially if it is typical for your countrymen to take them on a regular basis? Why only make it an issue after someone has been caught? Right now so many people (including posters on this board) seems to be saying "this drug should not have been banned / was not performance enhancing" or "so what, Americans cheat too", and not focusing more on "these athletes took a banned substance" or at least "the authorities did not inform the athletes effectively/ the athletes did not check".