ISU Council's Proposal to change Rule 108 - Age Limits for Single & Pair Skating / Ice Dance + ISU Medical Commission's report

[overedge]

I think the raise in age will benefit those with a more “pure” jump technique in the long run. I don’t believe it will bring back the “artistry” that so many seem to be nostalgic about. It’ll make skaters work the judging system even more to get those points, less quads but more overly packed programs that milk the IJS in spins, footwork, etc.

If that turns out to be the case, the other criteria can be adjusted too. None of this is set in stone.

 

[Trillian]

I think the raise in age will benefit those with a more “pure” jump technique in the long run. I don’t believe it will bring back the “artistry” that so many seem to be nostalgic about. It’ll make skaters work the judging system even more to get those points, less quads but more overly packed programs that milk the IJS in spins, footwork, etc.

I’m going to say this as someone whose favorites have always been skaters who are known for it: so-called “artistry” is a moving target. The great “artistic” skaters under IJS, like Satoko and Jason, have very different approaches to spins and footwork than skaters in the 6.0 era did. It really doesn’t matter. Whatever we’re calling artistry is always going to be more foundational than any of the specific elements. It’s about things like body control, edge quality, ease of movement over the ice, ability to connect to and interpret the music, etc. The emphasis on jumps isn’t necessarily the problem, since skaters can be great jumpers and also have those other qualities. The short careers are the problem, because most of the skating skills that make people use the word “artistic” develop with age. It’s all a technical conversation in the end: we want to see skaters compete long enough to develop well-rounded technique rather than just learning enough party tricks to win a few medals.

 

[Sylvia]

Associated Press article today (June 7):

Figure skating minimum age rises to 17 before 2026 Olympics

No 15-year-old figure skaters will be allowed to compete at the 2026 Olympics following the controversy surrounding Russian national champion Kamila Valieva at this year’s Beijing Games.

apnews.com

Excerpts:

PHUKET, Thailand (AP) — No 15-year-old figure skaters will be allowed to compete at the 2026 Olympics following the controversy surrounding Russian national champion Kamila Valieva at this year’s Beijing Games.

A new age limit for figure skaters at senior international events was passed Tuesday by the International Skating Union in a 110-16 vote that will raise the minimum age to 17 before the next Winter Olympics in Milan-Cortina d’Ampezzo, Italy.

“This is a very important decision,” ISU president Jan Dijkema said. “I would say a very historic decision.”

The limit will be phased in with 15-year-olds continuing to be allowed to compete next season, a minimum age of 16 in the 2023-24 season, rising to 17 the season after, which is the last before the Olympics.

The ISU said the new rule was “for the sake of protecting the physical and mental health, and emotional well-being of the skaters.”

...

The ISU drafted an age-limit proposal saying “burnout, disordered eating, and long-term consequences of injury” were a risk to young teenage skaters who are pushed to perform more quadruple jumps.

The decision was criticized in Russia, where skaters are currently banned by the ISU from international competitions because of the country’s military invasion of Ukraine.

“I think it was done to more or less even out the competition, so that our Russian female skaters couldn’t have the opportunity to win world championship, European, Olympic medals,” Dmitri Soloviev, a team event gold medalist for Russia at the 2014 Sochi Olympics, told broadcaster Match TV.

ETA:

There are similar articles by Reuters, CNN, NBC's Olympic Talk, CBS Sports, NPR, Yahoo! Sports, InsideTheGames, Olympics.com, NY Times, USA Today, NY Post ... (I noticed that many of the journalists also covered the Valieva situation during the Olympics and some of the quotes from there are being recycled today).

"Real time" discussion re. the proposal being voted on can be found in the "ISU Congress & elections 2022" thread.

 

[jamesy]

“I think it was done to more or less even out the competition, so that our Russian female skaters couldn’t have the opportunity to win world championship, European, Olympic medals,” Dmitri Soloviev, a team event gold medalist for Russia at the 2014 Sochi Olympics, told broadcaster Match TV.

Well, it's not like they are in a position to win those medals right now, so...

 

[PRlady]

It’s actually good news for the current crop of Russian juniors 14 or so, they’ll be the right age by the time they’re allowed to compete again.

 

[MacMadame]

It’s actually good news for the current crop of Russian juniors 14 or so, they’ll be the right age by the time they’re allowed to compete again.

I think the Russians are convinced they will win the war shortly and be able to skate again even this season, but definitely next. (i.e., only losing one season) Hopefully, even if the war is over (won by Ukraine!) in time for skating this season, I would hope sanctions would continue until Russia had made reparations so they aren't going to be skating anyway.

Given that Diane Davis and Annabelle Morosov are publicly announcing they are switching countries, I don't think I'm the only one who thinks this.

 

[Sylvia]

Given that Diane Davis and Annabelle Morosov are publicly announcing they are switching countries

Actually, neither has done that themselves (yet). The Davis/Smolkin situation was/is being discussed in the Russian news thread, starting here: https://www.fsuniverse.net/forum/th...s-updates-in-2022.109490/page-30#post-6263719

The moment the voting results were revealed on the screen for gradually raising the minimum age limit (100 in favor, 16 against, 2 abstentions) in Phuket, the enthusiastic applause by the delegates and Jan Dijkema's brief statement: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gIj4fjAUcQ&t=2299s

ETA that Reuters published a one-minute excerpt of the moment as well: https://www.reuters.com/video/watch/figure-skating-to-raise-minimum-competit-id748196955

 

[airgelaal]

“I think it was done to more or less even out the competition, so that our Russian female skaters couldn’t have the opportunity to win world championship, European, Olympic medals,” Dmitri Soloviev, a team event gold medalist for Russia at the 2014 Sochi Olympics, told broadcaster Match TV.

As always, the whole world is against them
If the girls are so talented, what's stopping them from winning at 18? Or do other girls suddenly become more talented at 18? Where's the logic?

 

[SkateFanBerlin]

Never count out the Russians. As Frank Caroll said recently the Russians will be trying to take the 14 yo jumpers and stretch them out to 17. They'll use chemicals or extreme diet whatever it takes. Too bad for the athlete. In my 50 years of watching the sport the one thing we can count on is that the Russian innovation on cheating.

 

[Sylvia]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1534212207847911424

Clara Peters!

 

[airgelaal]

Clara Peters!

Glad to see her. I was her fan when she was a skater
Unfortunately, many countries, such as russia, forget that sports are not only about records, but also about the development of sports in the world.

 

[babayaga]

Never count out the Russians. As Frank Caroll said recently the Russians will be trying to take the 14 yo jumpers and stretch them out to 17. They'll use chemicals or extreme diet whatever it takes. Too bad for the athlete. In my 50 years of watching the sport the one thing we can count on is that the Russian innovation on cheating.

But at least it would make it harder. Their collective reputation is ruined too.

 

[Sylvia]

Dr. Jane Moran, chair of the ISU's Medical Commission, also fervently implored that the ISU Council's proposal NOT be amended before the vote (starting at this point of the archived stream): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pMZt8uss2I&t=10910s

Excerpts from her speech are included in this expanded AP article:

Figure skating minimum age rises to 17 before 2026 Olympics

No 15-year-old figure skaters will be allowed to compete at the 2026 Olympics following the controversy surrounding Russian national champion Kamila Valieva at this year's Beijing Games.

www.sportsnet.ca

Moran, the chair of the ISU's Medical Commission, sounded on the verge of tears as she told Tuesday's 58th ISU Congress that the decision was about the "health and safety of our skaters.
"It's about their longevity in their lives, not their skating career. It's about them as people. It's not about how many skaters you have in your country. It's not about the individual. It's about the skater themselves," Moran said. "And they skate, but they also have lives. And they have the right to develop themselves as people during their adolescent age, which is very difficult."

"(Young skaters) need to be able to perform, they need to go through puberty, they need to be able to become independent. They need care during that time. They don't need us forcing them to compete," Moran told the Congress, to long applause. "They need to be able to develop both physiologically, their skills in skating, the passion that they love, but also psychologically, to be able to deal with the pressures of skating, but also the pressures of being an adolescent and being able to carry on in their careers and their lives.
"So please do not change this proposal."

[Link to her credentials]

 

[allezfred]

“I think it was done to more or less even out the competition, so that our Russian female skaters couldn’t have the opportunity to win world championship, European, Olympic medals,” Dmitri Soloviev, a team event gold medalist for Russia at the 2014 Sochi Olympics, told broadcaster Match TV.

Interesting that Russian media are openly acknowledging that they are using some things to give their female skaters an advantage over the rest of the world.

 

[Bouffantrex]

Never count out the Russians. As Frank Caroll said recently the Russians will be trying to take the 14 yo jumpers and stretch them out to 17. They'll use chemicals or extreme diet whatever it takes. Too bad for the athlete. In my 50 years of watching the sport the one thing we can count on is that the Russian innovation on cheating.

Exactly. God only knows what drugs/blockers/xenon gas "Doctor" Shvetsky is developing now to get around the upcoming age restrictions. Anyone who thinks any Eteri skater is skating clean is being willfully ignorant and naive.

 

[Sylvia]

June 8th article:

【フィギュア】北京五輪での15歳ワリエワ「騒動」で低年齢化問題再燃　17歳引き上げ／解説 - フィギュア : 日刊スポーツ

国際スケート連盟（ISU）は7日、タイ・プーケットで開催中の第58次総会で、フィギュアなどのシニア大会への最低参加年齢を現行の15歳から17歳に引き上げること… - 日刊スポーツ新聞社のニュースサイト、ニッカンスポーツ・コム（nikkansports.com）

www.nikkansports.com

Machine translated excerpt near the end:

Qualification for the 2026 Milan Cortina d'Ampezzo Olympics is also confirmed to be 17 years old or older. Promising stocks such as Mao Shimada (13 = Kinoshita Academy), who is the only Japanese girl to jump a quadruple toe loop, can no longer participate, but the Japanese side cooperates with each country and region. I agreed with a long-term perspective that prioritizes health, prolongs the competitive life, and enriches the competition.
Yosuke Takeuchi, the figure skating director of the Japan Skating Federation, also said that he wanted to prioritize the growth and development of athletes and the prevention of injuries during the Beijing Olympics. He was in favor of the increase.

ETA:

In addition to landing clean quad toes this past season, Mao Shimada landed a 3Aq in her Adv. Novice FS (international debut at 2022 Egna Spring Trophy):

Shimada, coached by Mie Hamada, was very impressive to watch with her combination of power & grace! Her jumps: 3Aqb (8.00 bv -1.07 goe = 7.93), 3Lzb+3T (= 12.67), 3F, 3Lo, 2Ab+3T+2T, 3Lz (no quads allowed at this level) - video from the livestream: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vSp7UQ-jmI
...
ISU Communication No. 2396 - SINGLE & PAIR SKATING GUIDELINES FOR INTERNATIONAL NOVICE COMPETITIONS 2021/22: https://www.isu.org/inside-isu/isu-communications/communications/25882-isu-communication-2396/file
"[Adv. Novice] Free Skating:
In the Free Skating Program, a maximum of three (3) bonus points can be achieved: one (1) bonus point for
one (1) Double Axel and one (1) bonus point each for any two (2) different Triple jumps"

 

[barbarafan]

Never count out the Russians. As Frank Caroll said recently the Russians will be trying to take the 14 yo jumpers and stretch them out to 17. They'll use chemicals or extreme diet whatever it takes. Too bad for the athlete. In my 50 years of watching the sport the one thing we can count on is that the Russian innovation on cheating.

Also count on ages of Russian girls to be hidden and anything marked down a lie to make them 2 yrs older than they are.As Russians believe no one has the right to tell them what to do the skating world in Russia will believe it is their right to put whatever age suits the competition....Sorta like China.

 

[Karen-W]

Interesting that Russian media are openly acknowledging that they are using some things to give their female skaters an advantage over the rest of the world.

That's not what I took from Soloviev's quote. He was just being arrogant the way us rude 'Murikans were in the mid-90s when our women were winning a LOT and the rest of the world was more than a little resentful and the age minimum was raised. There was more than bit of "yeah, that's the only way the rest of you can compete with all our baby ballerinas on ice" attitude. Eventually, we lost our edge. And, eventually, the Russian women will lose their edge also.

 

[karmena]

Never count out the Russians. As Frank Caroll said recently the Russians will be trying to take the 14 yo jumpers and stretch them out to 17. They'll use chemicals or extreme diet whatever it takes. Too bad for the athlete. In my 50 years of watching the sport the one thing we can count on is that the Russian innovation on cheating.

Absolutely. It is endless and in all levels.

 

[insideedgeua]

I’m not surprised to hear how passionate Dr Jane Moran was. She’s the one who sleeps in her scrubs at Worlds, just so she’s ready to jump out of bed if a skater is unwell throughout the night.

For at least four years she’s been keeping data on injuries, looking for patterns to see if particular elements are causing more injuries than they should for skaters.

She is committed to making the sport as safe as possible for all skaters.

 

[Sylvia]

Liza Tuktamysheva's post (English at end): https://www.instagram.com/p/CejHGxsKgmn/

I think many have already heard the news about raising the minimum age for skaters to compete in adult competitions.
What can I say, I was in the place of those who won at a young age and now I am in the place of those who compete with young athletes who have been making difficult content since childhood and feel very confident in it.
For me, such competitions are motivation not to stop my development and continue to try new things.
This is probably right from the point of view of maintaining mental and physical health, but it seems that now junior competitions will gain a new even more difficult level.
I would like to believe that in the end, such changes will be an incentive to continue their careers and will benefit the athletes.

 

[soogar]

Dr. Jane Moran, chair of the ISU's Medical Commission, also fervently implored that the ISU Council's proposal NOT be amended before the vote (starting at this point of the archived stream): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pMZt8uss2I&t=10910s

Excerpts from her speech are included in this expanded AP article:

Figure skating minimum age rises to 17 before 2026 Olympics

No 15-year-old figure skaters will be allowed to compete at the 2026 Olympics following the controversy surrounding Russian national champion Kamila Valieva at this year's Beijing Games.

www.sportsnet.ca

[Link to her credentials]

I question the concern for young skaters when the ISU made the decision to monetize Junior Worlds by streaming them, and awarding prize money to Junior skaters. All this does is expose young athletes to media scrutiny when they could invest some effort in expanding opportunities for their senior skaters. I also think awarding prize money for junior performance doesn't help because many coaches are incentivized by skater performance in these events. These events should be free of financial incentive and if the ISU truly wants to support juniors and athlete development, the money should be allocated directly to federations who participate in junior events, on the basis of the number of skaters performing, and not actual results.

 

[skateboy]

Interestingly, here's how the new age rule would have affected past champions:

Michelle Kwan's 1996 world and national title gone, as are Tara Lipinski's Olympic, world and national title, Sonia Henie's 1st Olympic title and two world titles, two of Tenley Albright's national championships, Carol Heiss's 1st World Championship, 2 of Peggy Fleming's national titles, Linda Fratianne's 1st world and national titles, and Elaine Zayak's World and national titles.

And get rid of Oksana Baiul's Olympic and world titles, Sarah Hughes' Olympic title, Alina Zagitova's Olympic and world titles, and no 2016 world title for Evgenia Medvedeva.

All stripped away. Changes the history of figure skating considerably, doesn't it?

 

[gkelly]

Interestingly, here's how the new age rule would have affected past champions:

Michelle Kwan's 1996 world and national title gone, as are Tara Lipinski's Olympic, world and national title, Sonia Henie's 1st Olympic title and two world titles, two of Tenley Albright's national championships, Carol Heiss's 1st World Championship, 2 of Peggy Fleming's national titles, Linda Fratianne's 1st world and national titles, and Elaine Zayak's World and national titles.

And get rid of Oksana Baiul's Olympic and world titles, Sarah Hughes' Olympic title, Alina Zagitova's Olympic and world titles, and no 2016 world title for Evgenia Medvedeva.

All stripped away. Changes the history of figure skating considerably, doesn't it?

The ISU age limits have no effect on national championships.

Certainly not in the US, which is the country you're discounting national titles for. Under the current age rules, the US has had a couple of national champions who were unable to compete at Worlds that year because of age, and so has Russia.

How many countries do restrict entries in their (senior) national championships based on age?

 

[MacMadame]

Changes the history of figure skating considerably, doesn't it?

You can't compare the figures era to the modern era either. Figures kept people from working on jumps as much as they do today.

I would also not compare the non-IJS era to the current era.

So that leaves us with:

Alina Zagitova's Olympic and world titles, and no 2016 world title for Evgenia Medvedeva.

And given what has happened to Zagitova, this is exactly the sort of situation raising the age limits is trying to prevent.

So that leaves us with Med losing on World Title. But the next season she had many world records and another World title and, if Zagitova wasn't on the Senior scene during that time, would Med not only have had similar results in the 2017-18 season, but also an OGM? It's extremely likely IMO.

I can live with this as much as I enjoyed watching Zagitova's Olympic season.

 

[PRlady]

Since I still think the wrong Russian won in 2018, I’m fine with it also.

Nothing is going to stop really determined Juniors from hurting themselves, didn’t Tara practice her 3L-3L obsessively? But at least the incentive to pace yourself so you peak at 17-18 is there now.

 

[VGThuy]

Interestingly, here's how the new age rule would have affected past champions:

Michelle Kwan's 1996 world and national title gone, as are Tara Lipinski's Olympic, world and national title, Sonia Henie's 1st Olympic title and two world titles, two of Tenley Albright's national championships, Carol Heiss's 1st World Championship, 2 of Peggy Fleming's national titles, Linda Fratianne's 1st world and national titles, and Elaine Zayak's World and national titles.

And get rid of Oksana Baiul's Olympic and world titles, Sarah Hughes' Olympic title, Alina Zagitova's Olympic and world titles, and no 2016 world title for Evgenia Medvedeva.

All stripped away. Changes the history of figure skating considerably, doesn't it?

Non-age eligible skaters for international competition can still compete on the "senior" level at Nationals, depending on the federation. Domestic definition of junior and ISU international definition of juniors may differ.

To your point though, Kwan wouldn't just lose her 1996 World title, but also her 1998 Olympic silver and World title, her GPF title, and all other titles and medals won prior to the 1998-1999 season since she wouldn't have turned 17 until after July 1, 1997. That said, maybe she could have ended her career on a different note than a press conference announcing her injury at the 2006 Olympics.

 

[soogar]

To your point though, Kwan wouldn't just lose her 1996 World title, but also her 1998 Olympic silver and World title, her GPF title, and all other titles and medals won prior to the 1998-1999 season since she wouldn't have turned 17 until after July 1, 1997. That said, maybe she could have ended her career on a different note than a press conference announcing her injury at the 2006 Olympics.

Yeah, she could have faded into oblivion by running out of money to remain in competitive skating, or made the decision to quit skating at 18 to attend college because she couldn't afford to remain in the sport longer. How long could her parents have sustained two skating careers, if Michelle didn't start winning money in her early teens? And that goes for a number of young successful skaters from more humble backgrounds. Tara and Sarah both had the financial cushion to ride out a later competitive career.

 

[PRlady]

Yeah, she could have faded into oblivion by running out of money to remain in competitive skating, or made the decision to quit skating at 18 to attend college because she couldn't afford to remain in the sport longer. How long could her parents have sustained two skating careers, if Michelle didn't start winning money in her early teens? And that goes for a number of young successful skaters from more humble backgrounds. Tara and Sarah both had the financial cushion to ride out a later competitive career.

Sasha, too. But I’m not willing to lower age limits for the sake of skaters with less resources despite the equity issues, there are too many reasons the other way.

 

[overedge]

All of the skaters mentioned so far would have been getting financial support from USFS and also doing shows, tours, etc - of which there were many more in "those days" - even if they weren't age-eligible to compete internationally. It's not like any of them would have had to rely solely on their families or sponsors to finance their skating.