ISU to evaluate feasibility of 2020-21 skating season

[Miezekatze]

I'm not 100% sure but as far as I know, they go by passport. There's a documentary about the Frankfurt Airport and they did two YKW episodes and the federal police didn't let anyone through who didn't have a German passport or EU passport and a connecting flight.

I'm not sure how any of this works at the moment and if there's clear rules on business and private travel.

Germans were supposed to be able to fly to Mallorca even before July 1st as "test tourists".
Then a couple from Germany booked the vacation and TUI unfortunately booked them a flight that had a stop in Switzerland and then Mallorca sent them back home because they arrived from Switzerland and not Germany So obviously they did not look at where the travellers came from, but at where the airplane came from.

The film crew for Matrix 4 arrived in Berlin some days ago and I read some entertainment article about that.

Now it mentions Keanu Reeves lives in Canada (?) and came from there with the airplaine, but I'm not sure the whole rest of the film crew does? It's a Hollywood movie after all and the article I read also stated his girlfriend he's with is from L.A, so I doubt she has a Canadian passport and I don't know if he does?!...

I'd guess with all work related travel the federations and skaters would have to figure out the current rules with the country they are flying to.

 

[skatfan]

Andy Slavitt has a Coronavirus Podcast called In the Bubble. This episode focuses on sports reopening:

Mini-Episode: Will There Be Sports? (with Adam Schefter) - In the Bubble with Andy Slavitt

Andy calls up Adam Schefter in-between his SportsCenter appearances to talk about sports in the era of the coronavirus. The pandemic has cancelled seasons for the pros, college athletes, and for you and your kids. Leagues around the world are looking to resume play, but should they? Keep up with...

pca.st

 

[Deleted member 221]

So, how does it work right now? Say, Hubble and Donohue train in Montreal (unless I missed some news) but are American. Can they visit the EU for some competition? Could they do Skate America and return to Canada?

I haven't looked into the Canadian restrictions. Normally, C-19 related travel restrictions apply to country of residence (and country of origin) rather than country of citizenship. E.g., a U.S. citizen living in Canada could travel to and from the EU.

U.S. citizens can re-enter the U.S., even if they're living in a country that's not allowed in the U.S. Whether they can then re-enter Canada depends on their immigration status.

In Europe, at least, those with legal residency status could return even after visiting a country with restrictions, though they would be subject to quarantine.

Isn’t Worlds supposed to be in Sweden? [...]. Can they go the EU?

Sweden is in the EU. Swedes can travel to most other EU countries. This is already somewhat dated (it has improved), but it contains data for other European countries.

https://www.thelocal.se/20200603/where-can-you-travel-from-sweden-this-summer

Sweden does not currently have any restrictions for EU/EEA travellers entering the country and is following the EU recommendations for travellers outside the EU.

 

[Miezekatze]

I think it's sort of pointless to discussion travel restrictions from or to Sweden right now, because those things currently can change within days with new developments (like at the moment with countries like Serbia) and March 2021 is 8 months away

So the situation then can be a lot better or a lot worse or the same as now.

If I personally plan a trip from Germany to anywhere right now, I'd constantly check the current status anyway (even within Germany spontanous restrictions can pop up).

 

[Deleted member 221]

I think it's sort of pointless to discussion travel restrictions from or to Sweden right now, because those things currently can change within days with new developments (like at the moment with countries like Serbia) and March 2021 is 8 months away

So the situation then can be a lot better or a lot worse or the same as now.

I agree, but I don't think there's any special cause for pessimism re: Sweden. Absent any data to the contrary, I think we should go with the current trend, which is improving and trending toward more open borders. It's a far cry from the situation in Brazil or U.S. Despite the hysteria in the media, the entire country is averaging fewer than 10 deaths per day.

Yesterday, there were 57 new cases and 11 new deaths. The day before, three deaths. People can obviously set their own risk tolerance wherever they wish, but there are plenty of places in Europe with worse statistics.

 

[Miezekatze]

I agree, but I don't think there's any special cause for pessimism re: Sweden. Absent any data to the contrary, I think we should go with the current trend, which is improving and trending toward more open borders. It's a far cry from the situation in Brazil or U.S. Despite the hysteria in the media, the entire country is averaging fewer than 10 deaths per day.

Yesterday, there were 57 new cases and 11 new deaths. The day before, three deaths. People can obviously set their own risk tolerance wherever they wish, but there are plenty of places in Europe with worse statistics.

Yeah, I agree with that.

Their main problem was failing in keeping the virus out of retirement homes and protecting their elderly, which they've accknowledged and need to process internally themselves (and hopefully improve the situation for the future, if that hasn't happened yet, but I'd hope so).

Apart from that I don't think it's riskier to travel as a tourist to Sweden than for example to Switzerland (who had some rising numbers because of discos and nightclubs recently).

I think their restrictions right now in this moment might in parts even be a bit stricter than in Germany even, because I think they still have a limit of 50 people for events, while in Germany it's 100 - 1000 depending on the region. Restaurants, bars, leisure activities, ... are mostly open in all EU states now again I think, so I think the risk is probably similar everywhere (apart from actual hotspots).

 

[PRlady]

I’m desperate to watch skating, it would cheer me up a lot. But given what’s happened in so many American states that opened up their businesses, in Israel where they opened the schools and gyms, in Melbourne and other places that were safe and are now locked down again, I’m pessimistic.

Here in DC we had some of the biggest BLM protests and had no spike in cases, so I agree with those who think outside vs inside is a huge difference. But even if skating events could be held outside once the weather is colder, the difference in venue would really impact some skaters’ performances.

And I think some countries are going to be very rigorous. Korea had a low caseload from great testing and tracing and then spiked when nightclubs opened. I doubt they’re going to let their skaters fly to Europe to compete.

 

[MsZem]

I’m desperate to watch skating, it would cheer me up a lot. But given what’s happened in so many American states that opened up their businesses, in Israel where they opened the schools and gyms, in Melbourne and other places that were safe and are now locked down again, I’m pessimistic.

In Israel they opened up schools in a really irresponsible manner, and then opened clubs and wedding venues and just told people to go have a good time. Well, the good times are over - but it is possible to reopen and bring sports back in a more responsible manner, as various other countries have done.

 

[MacMadame]

Now it mentions Keanu Reeves lives in Canada (?)

He's Canadian. Grew up in Toronto. But he was born in Beruit.

But even if skating events could be held outside once the weather is colder, the difference in venue would really impact some skaters’ performances.

And?

This is not really aimed at you but people keep pointing out that not all skaters can ______ as if that means _____ shouldn't happen. All skaters react differently to different situations. Some love crowds, some always do better at home at their own rink with no crowds. Some will thrive competing outdoors and some will not. It's the way of sports and there is nothing particularly unfair about it.

 

[thvu]

Anyone who doesn't think the media is overhyping the USA cases to shut down the economy again, including restarting sporting events, are the ones wearing the tin hats.

In my state, over 50 hospitals have full ICUs, information the state has been purposefully withholding until recently. The situation is getting more and more dire. We are going to reach the point where doctors are going to have to pick and choose who gets more intensive treatment because we are about to reach capacity. How is this overhyping?

 

[angi]

In Israel they opened up schools in a really irresponsible manner, and then opened clubs and wedding venues and just told people to go have a good time. Well, the good times are over - but it is possible to reopen and bring sports back in a more responsible manner, as various other countries have done.

This is false, it's true that they opened clubs and weddings but there was a very long list of restrictions in place - from max capacity of people (not more than 250 and depending on the size of the venue), to enforcing wearing masks, to social distancing of at least 2m between people and so on. They implemented a system called "purple certificate" (a bad translation) that businesses had to follow in order to reopen. It is true that they opened things up too fast and it's also true that unfortunately, people became indifferent to the situation and didn't follow the rules as much as they needed to but it is false to say that they just opened things up and moved on, they did try to implement a large number of restrictions for reopening. What @PRlady wrote is accurate, from everything we've been seeing so far there's a very big difference between gatherings indoors and outdoors, but even outdoors a very strict discipline of masks and social distancing has to be enforced. Yes, there might be some ways to go on with some sense of normalcy with outdoor activities, but the fact that gathering of barely 250 people indoors caused large outbreaks in several countries should be a good indication as to why conducting indoors skating events is hugely unrealistic.
And that's while not even taking into consideration basically everyone in the medical world who is trying to warn us from what will likely happen in the winter. Things are not going to go back to normal for a long time, it's depressing and it's heartbreaking, but denying it is not helping anyone either. ISU needs to think of a new plan that will allow skaters to skate and allow the fans to watch skating online but it really can't resemble any kind of competition we've seen so far. They need to be creative for the sake of the skaters and the fans but they can't risk anyone.

 

[Lemonade20]

Do you think there will be virtual skating events?

 

[Sylvia]

The 2020 Peggy Fleming Trophy (18 competitors skating 3.5 min. programs, pre-recorded) is coming up soon:

https://twitter.com/USFigureSkating/status/1280265072254869504

Jason Brown (2019 PFT champ), Tim Dolensky (2018 PFT champ), Camden Pulkinen & Starr Andrews are in the promo video. To be streamed on July 17th 7:00 P.M. ET via USFS' Fan Zone.

 

[Sylvia]

Решение по Гран-при США по фигурному катанию будет принято до 1 августа

Решение по проведению первого этапа серии Гран-при по фигурному катанию Skate America будет принято до 1 августа, подтвердил РИА Новости директор по... РИА Новости Спорт, 08.07.2020

rsport.ria.ru

MOSCOW, July 8 - RIA Novosti, Anatoly Samokhvalov. The decision to hold the first stage of the Skate America Figure Skating Grand Prix series will be made before August 1, Michael Terry, Communications Director of the United States Figure Skating Federation, confirmed to RIA Novosti .
The Grand Prix series should begin with a stage in the US Las Vegas, which is tentatively scheduled for October 23-25.

"I would like to draw your attention to the ISU (International Skating Union) document, which August 1 marks the ISU as the date for decision-making regarding Skate America," Terry replied.

 

[PairSkater12345]

In my state, over 50 hospitals have full ICUs, information the state has been purposefully withholding until recently. The situation is getting more and more dire. We are going to reach the point where doctors are going to have to pick and choose who gets more intensive treatment because we are about to reach capacity. How is this overhyping?

Help the sky is falling......and less people are dieting.....

 

[PRlady]

60,000 Americans were diagnosed with it today. They’re running out of tests again in Florida and Texas. In two weeks the death rate will spike. I don’t understand how anyone can deny what we’re in. Keeping Fauci off the podium isn’t going to change the facts.

In Israel, btw, the Health Minister announced a return to restrictions of gatherings to no more than 30 people. Then he had a party for his wife’s birthday with more than 200 guests. We are surrounded by Nero’s fiddling while we burn.

Skate America is not happening.

 

[ballettmaus]

Here in DC we had some of the biggest BLM protests and had no spike in cases, so I agree with those who think outside vs inside is a huge difference.

Research has actually proven that it makes a difference. Germany's top virologist said about a month ago that the risk of getting infected inside is about 19 times higher and the longer you stay inside, the bigger the risk (e.g. if you eat inside a restaurant your risk to catch it is much higher than if you go grocery shopping). Based on that and the fact that GP events stretch on for hours and hours, I'd say if they hold a GP event the safest thing to do would be to hold it without any spectators. (And they'd need to test all the skaters and judges beforehand).

 

[MsZem]

This is false, it's true that they opened clubs and weddings but there was a very long list of restrictions in place - from max capacity of people (not more than 250 and depending on the size of the venue), to enforcing wearing masks, to social distancing of at least 2m between people and so on. They implemented a system called "purple certificate" (a bad translation) that businesses had to follow in order to reopen. It is true that they opened things up too fast and it's also true that unfortunately, people became indifferent to the situation and didn't follow the rules as much as they needed to but it is false to say that they just opened things up and moved on, they did try to implement a large number of restrictions for reopening.

Thank you, angi, for explaining to me - an Israeli - what happened in Israel.

The chaotic reopening of schools was grossly irresponsible and telling everyone not to wear masks during the heatwave made things worse. Bibi specifically told people to go out and have a good time. By the time the clubs and wedding venues were allowed to reopen cases were rising; it was the time to roll things back, not to encourage people to congregate, hug, kiss, and dance together with people of all ages who could then go home and further infect others. You can't apply the purple certificate effectively in such an environment. Who would enforce it: the couple marrying? The singer on stage? The owners who want to keep their customers happy? Of course they looked the other way.

Distancing and masking can be enforced more easily at a skating competition, especially one with minimal attendance. Not following the rules? You're disqualified. But for even this approach to work, events should probably be local/regional and only in places that have things under control.

 

[yeslek]

Not directly related to skating but indicative

Denmark withdraws from hosting the 2021 Artistic Gymnastics World Championships

The event was scheduled for October 2021.

Gymnastics doesn’t usually hold world championships in Olympic years. Maybe that is why?

 

[Miezekatze]

This is false, it's true that they opened clubs and weddings but there was a very long list of restrictions in place - from max capacity of people (not more than 250 and depending on the size of the venue), to enforcing wearing masks, to social distancing of at least 2m between people and so on. They implemented a system called "purple certificate" (a bad translation) that businesses had to follow in order to reopen. It is true that they opened things up too fast and it's also true that unfortunately, people became indifferent to the situation and didn't follow the rules as much as they needed to but it is false to say that they just opened things up and moved on, they did try to implement a large number of restrictions for reopening. What @PRlady wrote is accurate, from everything we've been seeing so far there's a very big difference between gatherings indoors and outdoors, but even outdoors a very strict discipline of masks and social distancing has to be enforced. Yes, there might be some ways to go on with some sense of normalcy with outdoor activities, but the fact that gathering of barely 250 people indoors caused large outbreaks in several countries should be a good indication as to why conducting indoors skating events is hugely unrealistic.

I don't know the situation in Israel obviously, but I sort of agree with MsZem.

In Germany people have private parties and gatherings indoor and outdoors all the time, that have no social distancing anymore (which is allowed now, but they were already doing it, when people were supposed to have socially distant private events too) and so far there haven't been huge spikes due to that, so maybe they are not partying so wildly yet , but I see that as a lot more risky than a public event indoor event that has assigned seats and enforced rules that someones actually enforces...Obviously you can't have normal events with normal visitor numbers, but I do think it would be possible to create something safe with like 20%viewers that wouldn't be more dangerous than my uncles half-inside garden parties , which he has held 3 of since June, including a party for my nearly 90 year old grandfather .

There's one arena doing concerts with 900 spectators in Germany again since mid-June, I'm sure their concept could be used for all sorts of events (apart from the issue that's it not financially making much sense to hold events like that and only artists that have a young fanbase are selling the few tickets, for now it's more like a "pilot project")...personally I find it crazier to allow nightclubs and discos (like Switzerland does) than organized concerts and sports events with rules...

I'd guess the crowd is already bigger than at Nebelhorn in normal years

Feuerwerk - Wincent Weiss - Arena Now Wincent Weiss Konzert 20.06.2020

Feuerwerk live - Arena Now Wincent Weiss Konzert 20.06.2020

youtu.be

I think the problems are different: financial, travel, uncertainty of planning (because obviously when there's a rise of number or a hotspot, than concerts like the one in the video would of course be forbidded again immediately and also comparable sports events with visitors).

I still think it's a bit more realistic to have small events with a few spectators inside than to have outdoor competitions with spectators, where would the rinks with spectator ranks come from, are there still any? Maybe they'd have all competitons in those half open places in Austria/Switzerland?

 

[Miezekatze]

He's Canadian. Grew up in Toronto. But he was born in Beruit.

Ah ok, thanks for the info. I'm still wondering about the rest of the film crew or is the whole Matrix 4 movie a Canadian project?

There's a small show Tennis Open in Berlin next week, I read the Australian player can't come like planned, because he's not allowed to fly out. They have players from Germany, Austria, Ukraine, Netherlands, Czech republic, Latvia and Italy, playing at 2 venues, 800 and 200 spectators (with insanely expensive tickets IMO ). But of course it's outdoors. Still maybe having small local events that are NOT part of an official series is a good first step for athletes to get some competition practice back in other sports too. But again I think you can only do something like that if you have money to afford it.

 

[angi]

Thank you, angi, for explaining to me - an Israeli - what happened in Israel.

Well, I'm from Israel as well so I think it does qualify me to tell what's been happening.

The chaotic reopening of schools was grossly irresponsible and telling everyone not to wear masks during the heatwave made things worse. Bibi specifically told people to go out and have a good time. By the time the clubs and wedding venues were allowed to reopen cases were rising; it was the time to roll things back, not to encourage people to congregate, hug, kiss, and dance together with people of all ages who could then go home and further infect others. You can't apply the purple certificate effectively in such an environment. Who would enforce it: the couple marrying? The singer on stage? The owners who want to keep their customers happy? Of course they looked the other way.

Distancing and masking can be enforced more easily at a skating competition, especially one with minimal attendance. Not following the rules? You're disqualified. But for even this approach to work, events should probably be local/regional and only in places that have things under control.

I'm not arguing that things shouldn't have been done better and I'm not saying the reopening wasn't done way too fast and way too soon, I'm simply stating that it was definitely not done in a way that reopened things with no restrictions as it was implied from what you wrote and we are in the mess we are currently in for various reasons, many of them has to do with people who felt like the risk was over and things can just move on or people who didn't take it seriously enough - which is a very good cautionary tale for the rest, and it's unfortunate it's even needed considering what's been happening in the US and what happened in large parts of Europe.

You can't apply the purple certificate effectively in such an environment. Who would enforce it: the couple marrying? The singer on stage? The owners who want to keep their customers happy? Of course they looked the other way.

And this is exactly why those couples should have never held their wedding in the first place, it was a completely selfish act on their behalf. This insistence that things can go back to some kind of normal when it comes to gatherings is false. The same questions can be asked about a skating competition - who will enforce it? The Federation hosting it? ISU representatives? The owners of the venue? And how easy do you think it is to disqualify someone? Do they get to appeal the decision? And what about locker rooms and bathrooms that are shared between those who are there?
Events on pretty much any scale are just not a good idea, no matter where we look we see an example for it.

 

[MsZem]

The discussion of Israel's flawed reopening is OT for this thread. I will say that it is very easy to blame the public, but it is not the public that is responsible for policy, testing, epidemiological investigations, economic stimulus or enforcing laws and restrictions. We can and should expect people to do the right thing, but our leadership needs to make it possible. Why did people feel the risk is over? Was there a certain PM busy patting himself on the back and telling us to go have a beer? Couples held weddings because the state told them they could. It is on the state to make sure restrictions are reasonable and context-appropriate, and to enforce them.

As for how this can be done at skating competition and other sporting events: just like they enforce other code of conduct issues, or doping. As an athlete you sign up to compete under certain conditions, and you have to play by the rules. Other sports have managed it and skating can too.

 

[angi]

The discussion of Israel's flawed reopening is OT for this thread. I will say that it is very easy to blame the public, but it is not the public that is responsible for policy, testing, epidemiological investigations, economic stimulus or enforcing laws and restrictions. We can and should expect people to do the right thing, but our leadership needs to make it possible. Why did people feel the risk is over? Was there a certain PM busy patting himself on the back and telling us to go have a beer? Couples held weddings because the state told them they could. It is on the state to make sure restrictions are reasonable and context-appropriate, and to enforce them.

As for how this can be done at skating competition and other sporting events: just like they enforce other code of conduct issues, or doping. As an athlete you sign up to compete under certain conditions, and you have to play by the rules. Other sports have managed it and skating can too.

The only reason Israel's flawed reopening was brought up is that it is a cautionary tale for everything that can go wrong and how easily it can go wrong and what are the consequences of it, and it is highly relevant when discussing the reopening of skating basically.
As for the rest, it is a very complicated discussion, one I have no issue continuing privately but I 100% agree that the government is to blame for the situation but I also 100% agree that the people are just as responsible for it.
No couple in their right mind should have looked at everything that's been happening and think it was safe to hold an event that wasn't even meeting the minimum requirements. We are all responsible for one another and people were reckless and negligent.
I also think you are oversimplifying how easy it will be to enforce restrictions, some of the skaters are juniors and you have other participants that are not competing so enforcing it on them is a different thing entirely. Just seeing how people worldwide are treating the request to wear masks can tell us a lot about how complicated it will be to enforce these restrictions imo.

 

[MsZem]

I also think you are oversimplifying how easy it will be to enforce restrictions, some of the skaters are juniors and you have other participants that are not competing so enforcing it on them is a different thing entirely. Just seeing how people worldwide are treating the request to wear masks can tell us a lot about how complicated it will be to enforce these restrictions imo.

Junior skaters are still subject to antidoping requirements and other rules. You'd simply be updating the rules they have to follow in order to compete. Likewise coaches - you want access? Here's what you have to do.

Of all the issues potentially facing the ISU and its member federations, this is one of the easier things to resolve.

 

[angi]

Junior skaters are still subject to antidoping requirements and other rules. You'd simply be updating the rules they have to follow in order to compete. Likewise coaches - you want access? Here's what you have to do.

Of all the issues potentially facing the ISU and its member federations, this is one of the easier things to resolve.

And yet doping cases still happen and we all know that there are other cases that happen but manage to go undetected (and I'm not even going to get into other rules that exist in the skating world and people break). The difference here that the consequences are not personal and not even limited to the skating community as it is with doping cases, the effect will be much greater which makes it a much bigger risk.

 

[MsZem]

And yet doping cases still happen and we all know that there are other cases that happen but manage to go undetected (and I'm not even going to get into other rules that exist in the skating world and people break). The difference here that the consequences are not personal and not even limited to the skating community as it is with doping cases, the effect will be much greater which makes it a much bigger risk.

It is much easier to see if someone is wearing a mask then if someone is doping at home.

I'll reiterate that there are many potential barriers to holding skating competitions; this is simply a minor one in comparison. These barriers include the difficulty of international travel, the unpredictable nature of the disease and potential outbreaks that make it difficult to plan, lack of access to rinks and training for many skaters, the older judging pool which is at high risk, financial difficulties that may affect sponsorship income, no revenue from people in the seats and concession sales, and the likelihood that getting insurance would be either impossible or cost prohibitive.

Ensuring that competitors and coaches wear masks and keep their distance from one another in competition venues is nowhere near the top of the list of potential challenges skating faces. I'm not sure it's even on the list. No mask, no access.

I think we're done here.

 

[seabm7]

A news came out from China, that there will be no international sports event except Olympic trials this year. I guess this means there will be no CS Asian Open. But I'm not sure how they can offer GPF (the Olympic trial) without Cup of China.

No international sport events in China this year except for Beijing 2022 trials - Xinhua | English.news.cn

 

[allezfred]

China has cancelled all international sporting events in 2020 except those acting as test events for Beijing 2022. Wondering if that means no Cup of China, but yes to GPF?

‪http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2020-07/09/c_139200356.htm‬

 

[concorde]

Makes you wonder if the summer Olympic games will be pushed back another year. If that happens, will the Winter games will be pushed back 2 years to keep them flip flopping.