U.S. Ice Dance 2023-24 news & updates

[Wyliefan]

I would eliminate whatever is dangling from Michael's costume, it's distracting.

Same. Why so many male skaters these days have either dangly tunics or dangly straps is beyond me. Weird trend.

 

[Sylvia]

Replying belatedly to what was originally posted in the JGP thread in GSD:

I'm not entirely sure I think it's a waste of [2 JGP] spots - if Hauer/Starr hadn't been injured and Lavrova/Rogers hadn't split, then all 14 spots would have easily been used. As it is, the only other junior team to crack 125+ at either Dallas Classic or LPIDI isn't even on the ISP (Calhoun/Veselukhin). Maybe an argument could be made for Bland/Sperry, but who knows if there is some sort of injury issue there. As it is, Ilin/Cain and Cui/Eckert each get one and that seems fair and reasonable.

Top 3 at the Lake Placid Ice Dance Championships NQS event: https://ijs.usfigureskating.org/leaderboard/results/2023/33490/CAT022SEG011.html
Yahli Pedersen/Jeffrey Chen 55.87 (1) 87.16 (1) 143.03
Amy Cui/Kenny Eckert 52.42 (2) 74.43 (2) 126.85
Olivia Ilin/Dylan Cain 51.21(3) 74.42 (3) 125.63

Jane Calhoun & Daniil Veselukhin's team profile on IDC: https://www.ice-dance.com/site/profile-jane-calhoun-daniil-veselukhin/
He last(?) competed in Russia in November 2022 so may not be released yet.

I thought Bland/Sperry had a chance of an assignment, but they do age out of juniors next season so that could have weighed on the decision. Personally I would have at least waited to see how Ilin/Cain do in Istanbul before giving away the spot.

5th on down is VERY close after the RD in Istanbul so it will be interesting to see where Ilin/Cain (in 7th) will finish tomorrow (ETA link to Ilin/Cain's RD in Istanbul): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dCb7lzJxdc

 

[skatfan]

Video of Green and Parsons FD, Part I & II. Again, unusual music like two seasons ago and interesting choreography. Love Carole's costume:

https://twitter.com/valserdeifiori/status/1700198917705515303

https://twitter.com/i/status/1700199659480781265

Well, they’re skating with better material this year. One-foot step sequence is a highlight, and hopefully he won’t trip on the mini lift going to the twizzles in competition. Feels more mature.

 

[sk9tingfan]

Well, they’re skating with better material this year. One-foot step sequence is a highlight, and hopefully he won’t trip on the mini lift going to the tizzies in competition. Feels more mature.

The FD feels more like them. Last year's dance was like whoever from MIDA choreographed Rhapsody in Blue.

 

[Dobre]

I thought Ilin & Cain had a nice debut. More attack than I've seen from them often in high-stakes events over the last few years, and they did bring in a level 2 on the one pattern which is more like them than what we saw early this summer. (Also not common among the super young teams we usually send out on the JGP). It is very tight there among all those teams in the middle of the event, though the French team forfeited a lot of points to land 5th. Still I&C have really nice unison + spark. A good start.

 

[Dobre]

Also it was nice to see Jeffrey looking out for his partner & not blowing past or into her, which is a thing that can happen with brand new teams. Just taking it one step at a time.

 

[her grace]

ETA: wrong thread.

 

[jlai]

It looks like those most deserving of one or two jgps will get them. If those lower in the totem pole aren’t getting the second one it is a shame but not a big deal in the overall scheme of things.
Of course if Ilin /Cain or a similar team gets top five in the first assignment I will change my tune

Ilin/Cain didn’t get top five but that is good enough to be considered for second jgp if there is a spot

 

[Karen-W]

Ilin/Cain didn’t get top five but that is good enough to be considered for second jgp if there is a spot

Ehhhhh... They're young and will be on the JGP for at least 3-4 more seasons. A 2nd JGP isn't really a necessity.

 

[jlai]

Anyone knows why Flores/Desyatov doesn't yet have an assignment?

 

[ice coverage]

Anyone knows why Flores/Desyatov doesn't yet have an assignment?

I don't think anyone on FSU definitively "knows" all the reasoning on which USFS bases its decisions regarding Challenger assignments.

That said, two things that are true:

So far, USFS have given almost all Challenger assignments to U.S. dancers who are preparing for Grand Prix assignments.
The only exception is Wolfkostin/Tsarevski, whose results were better than Flores/Desyatov's at both of their NQS events: Dallas Classic and Lake Placid.​

 

[Sylvia]

Pedersen/Chen won the silver medal (146.37) in their international debut a a team, thanks to their 1st place RD yesterday.
Ilin/Cain finished 6th (134.81) in their junior international debut -- here's their FD: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Viq1ZRZvd8M

The FD score tiebreaker is the PCS mark:

5​	Yahli PEDERSEN / Jeffrey CHEN	USA	83.12​	42.12​		42.00​	7.18​	6.93​	6.89​	1.00​	#16​
6​	Olivia ILIN / Dylan CAIN	USA	83.12​	46.84​		36.28​	6.14​	6.00​	6.00​	0.00​	#10​

USFS already has assigned the remaining JGP dance spots as follows:

JPN (2): Neset/Markelov (gold/168.47 in THA), Mullen/Mullen (7th/135.30 in THA AUT, I meant - thanks for the correction below)
HUN (2): Pedersen/Chen (silver/146.37 in TUR), Carhart/Horovyi
POL (2): Carhart/Horovyi, Amy Cui/Kenny Eckert (international debut)
ARM (1): Peal/Peal (bronze/142.83 in AUT)

 

[azcalder]

Pedersen/Chen won the silver medal (146.37) in their international debut a a team, thanks to their 1st place RD yesterday.
Ilin/Cain finished 6th (134.81) in their junior international debut -- here's their FD: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Viq1ZRZvd8M

The FD score tiebreaker is the PCS mark:

5​	Yahli PEDERSEN / Jeffrey CHEN	USA	83.12​	42.12​		42.00​	7.18​	6.93​	6.89​	1.00​	#16​
6​	Olivia ILIN / Dylan CAIN	USA	83.12​	46.84​		36.28​	6.14​	6.00​	6.00​	0.00​	#10​

USFS already has assigned the remaining JGP dance spots as follows:

JPN (2): Neset/Markelov (gold/168.47 in THA), Mullen/Mullen (7th/135.30 in THA)
HUN (2): Pedersen/Chen (silver/146.37 in TUR), Carhart/Horovyi
POL (2): Carhart/Horovyi, Amy Cui/Kenny Eckert (international debut)
ARM (1): Peal/Peal (bronze/142.83 in AUT)

Mullen/Mullen (international debut - 7th/135.30 in AUT) Hauer/Starr had to WD from THA, so only Neset/Markelov competed)

 

[Dobre]

Anyone knows why Flores/Desyatov doesn't yet have an assignment?

They aren't on the GP so there's no reason they need a pre-season CS? Plus lots of U.S. teams ranked above them. No third home spot available at the U.S. Classic because the U.S. Classic isn't a Challenger event & doesn't have dance this season. A lot of times that third berth goes to less established U.S. teams trying to debut on the CS. (And he may have VISA issues too?) Anyway, it's better for them if--assuming they get an invite, which I think they will--they can get an invite to a late season Challenger because the scores are often higher there, and F&D are going to need a good SB score to try to qualify for more opportunities in the future.

 

[Dobre]

Oh, and I really wanted to say . . .

Ilin & Cain's reaction to their FD score.

 

[leilaofpaper]

Oh, and I really wanted to say . . .

Ilin & Cain's reaction to their FD score.

are we doing a They Laughed, They Cried for this year?

 

[Karen-W]

are we doing a They Laughed, They Cried for this year?

Yes, I believe so. @Vagabond - do you want to start a nomination thread in Kiss 'n Cry?

 

[jlai]

They aren't on the GP so there's no reason they need a pre-season CS? Plus lots of U.S. teams ranked above them. No third home spot available at the U.S. Classic because the U.S. Classic isn't a Challenger event & doesn't have dance this season. A lot of times that third berth goes to less established U.S. teams trying to debut on the CS. (And he may have VISA issues too?) Anyway, it's better for them if--assuming they get an invite, which I think they will--they can get an invite to a late season Challenger because the scores are often higher there, and F&D are going to need a good SB score to try to qualify for more opportunities in the future.

Sometimes I wonder if the importance of challengers is somewhat overstated? Sure you need feedback for your program, but C/B and G/P both managed to be successful without challengers last season. Also teams don’t always carry their momentum from gps to worlds either.

Senior Bs used to be for skaters without a gp but all that changed in recent years. Esp with Liza doing a ton of challengers some years ago.

 

[hoptoad]

They aren't on the GP so there's no reason they need a pre-season CS? Plus lots of U.S. teams ranked above them. No third home spot available at the U.S. Classic because the U.S. Classic isn't a Challenger event & doesn't have dance this season. A lot of times that third berth goes to less established U.S. teams trying to debut on the CS. (And he may have VISA issues too?) Anyway, it's better for them if--assuming they get an invite, which I think they will--they can get an invite to a late season Challenger because the scores are often higher there, and F&D are going to need a good SB score to try to qualify for more opportunities in the future.

The US has so many talented teams that these decisions must be tough.

Just to clarify, are teams invited to Challengers like they are to GPs, or is it the federation that assigns them? (I'm not trying to nitpick here and I truly appreciate all your informative dance posts.)

 

[Karen-W]

The US has so many talented teams that these decisions must be tough.

Just to clarify, are teams invited to Challengers like they are to GPs, or is it the federation that assigns them? (I'm not trying to nitpick here and I truly appreciate all your informative dance posts.)

Federations assign skaters to everything except the GPs. So, it is part budget and part strategic. There's been discussion in past seasons about Skate Canada not having the budget to send as many skaters to senior Bs, and the German fed's financial woes are quite well known.

 

[kwanfan1818]

C/B and G/P had already been on the World podium and were expected to be vying for the title in 2023. They also had substantial WS points to skate in the last group of the RD at Worlds, even though G/P couldn’t get 4C’s championship points due to her recovery. Both teams had substantial experience and were the top contender from their rinks, and they were able to turn around feedback quickly.

Skaters who have GP’s can use early CS’s to get WS points to improve their GP starting orders and get feedback and their international travel legs before their GP’s.

For skaters who need to establish themselves as a new team and get TES minimums and WS points, CS might be their only international opportunity, because their fed won’t pay for regular senior B’s, due to the travel costs, and because they don’t allow skaters to pay their own way. Not everyone can pull a Torgeshev and get sent to a last-minute international, because if it’s close, their Fed can choose another skater/team that already ticks the boxes, so that there’s reasonable certainty about the named team, and not provisional selections.

CS events, many of which are streamed and get the skaters exposure, are important to and for the skaters.

 

[Dobre]

C/B and G/P both managed to be successful without challengers last season.

C/B & G/P had years of competing at Challengers in order to establish themselves, bolster their reputations, secure their world standings, and help fund their training before they reached this point in their careers. Chock & Bates, in particular, (and Guignard & Fabbri also) earned opportunities via the Challenger route & set themselves up for many a final flight in major competition via attendance at more Challenger events than their competition. It's a wise route, IMO. We've seen teams fall completely off the World Standing list due to unanticipated injuries over the years, and especially for teams that compete in deep fields at home, there are never guarantees that the big end-of-the-season points will happen.

 

[Karen-W]

So, what's the over-under on GreenP showing up in 3 weeks at Nepela? That's a stacked field and, to be honest, I think they'd be better off spending the next 6 weeks before SkAm training their programs so that they look like a whole newly and vastly improved team at their GP debut rather than potentially 6th again (and risk losing to another US team no less).

 

[Dobre]

I dunno, but I really think they need to change the construction of that FD. They are wasting I don't know how many seconds/minutes going nowhere instead of skating full out. Both in the middle of the program and at the end.

 

[Rukia]

I genuinely wonder if there is some kind of injury they've been dealing with. Lifts were especially rough.

 

[Dobre]

Lifts are always likely to be a challenge for them. She isn't a toothpick that's going to whip around like an accessory. They need to shore this weakness up, of course, & turn the lifts into a strength by using the incredible strength in her abs + his extension. (Look at Weaver & Poje's lifts, I think. They knew how to use the former strength to advantage). The roughness on the lifts, here, though is to be expected as Green & Parsons needed to develop some new ones.

But generally speaking, I think G&P are going to be one of those teams that need to get things done the hard way. Bring in the higher footwork levels. Nail the twizzles. And emphasize the ability to outskate the competition. This is tough. But it can be a good thing. At the end of the day, these are the skills that make or break the teams at the top, and some teams never get there. G&P can. But they didn't make the most of any of those strengths at Lombardia. They're going to have to get those things done.

 

[Belsornia]

I guess it depends on why Green/Parsons had such a rough time at Lombardia. Are they coming back from an injury or are dealing with some other off-ice issue, or is it just that one of them Michael ate something dodgy or caught a cold and was sub-par this weekend and will be fine in a few days. If the latter, getting more competitive mileage in Bratislava is probably a good thing. If the former, or if they consider feedback and decide they need to rework one or both programmes (I thought they were a step up from last season, but it's true that the FD layout doesn't exploit their power), taking the extra time and coming back strong at SA sounds like the right approach.

 

[SidelineSkater]

I guess it depends on why Green/Parsons had such a rough time at Lombardia. Are they coming back from an injury or are dealing with some other off-ice issue, or is it just that one of them Michael ate something dodgy or caught a cold and was sub-par this weekend and will be fine in a few days. If the latter, getting more competitive mileage in Bratislava is probably a good thing. If the former, or if they consider feedback and decide they need to rework one or both programmes (I thought they were a step up from last season, but it's true that the FD layout doesn't exploit their power), taking the extra time and coming back strong at SA sounds like the right approach.

Its's easy for us to hit the panic button - and you raise good points on 'why'?

I checked the SA lineup and really it's a very competitive field from 2-6..G/P, Lajoie/Lagha, Taschlerova/Taschler, Mrazkova/Mrazek, Lopareva/Brissaud.

Then you can look back to a team like the Shibs in 2015-16. With some lower scores and a bronze at Nepala in Fall 15, losing to Piper/Paul and Coomes/Buckland, they reworked the middle of their FD and came back at Skate Canada to start their upward trajectory to World Silver.

It's early, but definitely not the start Gre/Par wanted.

 

[Karen-W]

Carhart/Horovyi are out of both of their JGPs per the USFS Int'l assignments page. Ilin/Cain are their replacements for Budapest, while Bland/Sperry are their replacements for Gdansk.

Green/Parsons are WD from Nepela - no replacement listed yet and the entries haven't been updated on the ISU page either, but I'd be surprised if another dance team doesn't pick up the assignment.

 

[Sylvia]

Sad for Helena & "Vova" - happy that Olivia & Dylan get a 2nd JGP after their strong debut in Istanbul and that Kristina & Matthew get to return to the JGP this year after all (thankfully these 2 spots were filled).

I assume Green/Parsons plan to use the extra time to rework their programs.