Worlds 2024 Women FS: ‘Where Have All The Knitters Gone?’

[euterpe]

Maddie Schizas finished only 8 spots out of the top 10. I just wish Canada would seriously look for a new top lady. Maddie tries her best, but she is a nebbish. How about Lulu Lin?

 

[Icetalavista]

He's Scottish. It comes with the territory.

Earlier he said “Grand Prix series” and at first I wondered what he meant about grumpy CDs

 

[EdgyIceMarks]

Their biggest problem is various domestic qualifying competitions

I don't think that's the problem for these skaters this season. More precisely, I do think there is a problem there, but not quite applicable to the World Championships Women's entry for Korea. Both Lee and You were only at 2 domestic comps this season, and no Senior Women qualified for the GPF so there was no conflict of scheduling between the Ranking Competition and international events this time around either. It's mostly that skaters mostly at a certain age bracket (the juniors in general suffers way more from this) mostly b/c Korean university admissions look primarily at specific domestic competitions over more prestigious int'l events b/c which allows for easier/'fairer'(lol) comparisons between various applicants when one limits considerations to competitions that most of the athletes within Korea are all expected to attend w/o having a deep knowledge of each individual sport, and sometimes b/c every non-ISU championships big event (University Games, Youth Olympics) seems to merit a qualifying round. More rarely in some cases skaters will be gunning at certain domestic titles when they feel like they can. (like Yelim Kim last season). But even Yelim Kim participated in about as same number of competitions as Kaori Sakamoto did last season if you tally up every domestic and international event. (I do also think Challengers are a big reason why there is more competition load and pressure for these elite skaters these days, but that's a different story).

WRT music/performance: I do think there is grounds for criticism when it comes to performance of many of the Korean ladies, but I also find that people have not been successfully articulating what the issue actually is. There is a decent deal of variety between a Piazzolla tango, a Siren program, a Pina Baush modern dance documentary, a high epic fantasy blockbuster, a French musical and an asylum psychological thriller at least in concept (if many of these being a tad bit tried in concept), and none of these I would say is particularly 'princess'-y in concept or choreography (those kinds of programs you do see more at the lower levels admittedly). I don't think the diversity of concepts or the choreography or the choreographers are the real problem. I think the problem is in fact much more mundane - that for these programs the choreography and the performance has not been honed to the point where it feels distinctly individual to each the skater. It didn't help that some of the skaters did not seem sufficiently well-trained for a competitive free skate either.

 

[Icetalavista]

Chaeyeon Kim jump clinic but zero personality through 95% of this.

Her choreographer gave her a story to animate her performance. The story is of a talented but deadpan and depressed- looking young Korean skater skating to the gloomiest dirge imaginable

 

[Theatregirl1122]

I know I routinely say this, but it kills me that they don’t do even the most minute amount of software development and set controls wherein GOE options are not possible or GOE outside the rules is capped to the max allowable or otherwise imputed. It’s not hard. It’s lazy.

I have teenagers who could probably fix this in a couple hours.

 

[Icetalavista]

More people should skate to Lord of the Rings TBH. Not the tinkly piano version, but the real one. It's a brilliant score with a lot of different themes to pull from.

Only if Sam does voiceovers to mr frodo

 

[Karen-W]

Another reason why I love her.

Being a car dealer's daughter, I named all my cars over the past 24 years for my favorite skaters. My 2000 silver BMW3 was "Wing" for Michelle Kwan. My 2006 C-Class was a bit temperamental, so she was "Sasha" for Cohen. The 2013 C-Class was "Kati" (hey, German car, finally figured Katarina deserved a designation).

Last year, our oldies were aging, and my husband wanted an EV, so we agreed he could have the "fun car" for once and I went for the nice, sensible AWD ICE vehicle (Subaru Crosstrek Sport, which I love). I decided to be an old goat, so I named her "Peggy" after the divine Miss Fleming. But DH pointed out that shouldn't a Japanese car also have a Japanese name? Good idea; I picked my favorite Japanese skater. So she is now my beloved Peggy Kaori - "Peggy K" for short. And I'm sure she's smiling tonight in our garage.

Yeah, I'm a weirdo motorhead, what can I say...

You know, you were kind of prophetic there naming your car after the last woman to win 3 World titles back-to-back-to-back and the newest one to do so.

Maddie Schizas finished only 8 spots out of the top 10. I just wish Canada would seriously look for a new top lady. Maddie tries her best, but she is a nebbish. How about Lulu Lin?

Lulu Lin is way too young. DOB is Jan 6, 2010. She won't be eligible for seniors until 2027-28.

 

[livetoskate]

Back at the hotel after watching the free skate. KAORI!! This was the first time I've seen her skate in person & it was obvious why she's now the 3-time world champion. Her huge double axel covered so much distance and had the best speed put of it. Secure, big jumps & excellent performance quality. Isabeau skated so well; so glad she got the silver. Kim skated nicely but the music was a drag & her jumps looked smaller. She also looked glum every time she was shown on the jumbotron-- even on the podium. What's going on? She should be very proud of herself, especially seeing/hearing what happened with poor Young You & Haein Lee.

Thanks to all the competitors who put on a great, exciting competition, and the wonderful organizers here. I'd definitely return for future competitions in Montreal.

 

[Messalina]

While I'm very sad that Amber didn't slay again (but very happy for Isabeau!), regaining 3 spots for the U.S. next year was definitely a joint effort. BOTH women improved on last year's placements by 2 spots this year (4th to 2nd and and 12th to 10th) to seal the deal.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Hana got negative GOE on her triple axle. I wonder why it looked OK to me. Does that mean it does not get ratifyied when that happens?

Amber got +1.60

I guess Amber had the hardest element in the free program.

I would like to see Mia develop more because she has quads. Would be interesting to see her go further with technique.

 

[airgelaal]

I don't think that's the problem for these skaters this season. More precisely, I do think there is a problem there, but not quite applicable to the World Championships Women's entry for Korea. Both Lee and You were only at 2 domestic comps this season, and no Senior Women qualified for the GPF so there was no conflict of scheduling between the Ranking Competition and international events this time around either.

It's not about their number. The problem is that this affects figure skaters’ self-confidence. The results of international competitions do not affect anything, but each international competition has its own qualifying tournament. What tournaments should girls prepare for? especially considering that most of them also go to school?

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

While I'm very sad that Amber didn't slay again (but very happy for Isabeau!), regaining 3 spots for the U.S. next year was definitely a joint effort. BOTH women improved on last year's placements by 2 spots this year (4th to 2nd and and 12th to 10th) to seal the deal.

Can you CC @Karen-W

Lol sorry I could not resist. And that was a great post you made.

 

[rfisher]

I guess they'll have to double check the urine samples of Levito and Sakamoto, especially Sakamoto, since doping by her competitors was what kept Loena from winning all those medals in her competitons.

 

[Karen-W]

Hana got negative GOE on her triple axle. I wonder why it looked OK to me. Does that mean it does not get ratifyied when that happens?

Amber got +1.60

I guess Amber had the hardest element in the free program.

I would like to see Mia develop more because she has quads. Would be interesting to see her go further with technique.

I think a couple of other more knowledgeable posters (@thvu and @tony) both thought it was at least a q if not < in real-time. Even if the tech panel was generous and overlooked it, the judges might have felt that it wasn't worthy of +GOE. It's still ratified as a 3a as long as it isn't called <<.

 

[tony]

I think a couple of other more knowledgeable posters (@thvu and @tony) both thought it was at least a q if not < in real-time. Even if the tech panel was generous and overlooked it, the judges might have felt that it wasn't worthy of +GOE. It's still ratified as a 3a as long as it isn't called <<.

Are we talking about Hana? It was called q

 

[Karen-W]

Are we talking about Hana? It was called q

Yes, that's who ANL was talking about. I haven't looked at the protocols yet so I wasn't sure what the tech panel did with it.

 

[kwanfan1818]

The jumps for the last few years have seemed tighter and tighter to me and she often gets away with questionable calls, jumps that are clearly << but getting q or no call (I think that was last Worlds, actually?), etc.

When I saw Hendrickx with Stars on Ice, her charisma, snap, and power were incredible, until it came to her jumps: she would tighten up before them, and they were awkward. I wondered if it was the show lighting, but I haven't been able to unsee that all season. Add in an injury, especially a hip injury, and she was lucky to have been able to do so well in the SP, IMO.

The best you can say is that she didn't lose USA three spots.

Hard to lose something you don't have in the first place.

Glenn was giving-up-on-one-jump short of ending in 13th, and the US women would have kept two. That she held it together for Top 10 mean that the podium for Levito means three.

Mark's rambling about Kaori's three-peat doesn't make sense when you consider that a lot of those women he mentioned won multiple world titles

He mentioned three-in-a-row several times. Just not every time.

Fleming, of course, was competing when reputation judging in the figures was key to retaining titles. Not that Fleming wasn't also a brilliant free skater.

Who the last three-in-a-row Women's champion was turned out to be one of Rippon's trivia questions a couple of The Runthrough podcast episodes ago. It was one of two that I actually knew without guessing.

 

[Jarrett]

I feel like we are back in 1980 when people are gogogaga over a double axel. 3 three time world champion and the highlight of the program is a double axel and never landed a lutz. Such a weak field right now.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

I feel like we are back in 1980 when people are gogogaga over a double axel. 3 three time world champion and the highlight of the program is a double axel and never landed a lutz. Such a weak field right now.

Huh

Didn’t Kaori have several triple triple combinations? And in the second half of the program

 

[livetoskate]

Huh

Didn’t Kaori have several triple triple combinations? And in the second half of the program

She did a lutz after the double axel & also did a triple flip-triple toe. At least from what I recall.

 

[airgelaal]

I feel like we are back in 1980 when people are gogogaga over a double axel. 3 three time world champion and the highlight of the program is a double axel and never landed a lutz. Such a weak field right now.

I didn’t know that Medvedeva skated in the 80s
Although, her 2a was terrible, which means it was clearly the 70s

 

[overedge]

I feel like we are back in 1980 when people are gogogaga over a double axel. 3 three time world champion and the highlight of the program is a double axel and never landed a lutz. Such a weak field right now.

Have you noticed that skating is more than jumping?

Kaori had exquisite musical interpretation and presentation. That counts for quite a lot too.

 

[VanillaIce]

I have written to the ISU suggesting they offer him public speaking training. Have not had a reply!

 

[Former Lurve Goddess]

Have you noticed that skating is more than jumping?

Kaori had exquisite musical interpretation and presentation. That counts for quite a lot too.

After watching her three peat in person, Queen Kaori's 2A is the 8th modern wonder of the wonderful! Completing a 3F+3T
and 2A+3T+2T in the second half of the program was also super impressive.

 

[tony]

After watching her three peat in person, Queen Kaori's 2A is the 8th modern wonder of the wonderful! Completing a 3F+3T
and 2A+3T+2T in the second half of the program was also super impressive.

To be fair, this is the same jump layout and order she’s had since she was a new senior, if not from her junior days too.

That said, I don’t know what people expect. These skaters that weren’t taught the 3A and a potential quad from a young age aren’t likely to suddenly start doing them, and certainly not at the biggest event of the season. She doesn’t have a real Lutz and never has, so there’s no point to tack on a 3T to an element that should always have a reduced base value and negative GOE. She maxes out what she can do, and she often delivers clean or very near-clean programs.

 

[skatingguy]

Maddie Schizas finished only 8 spots out of the top 10. I just wish Canada would seriously look for a new top lady. Maddie tries her best, but she is a nebbish. How about Lulu Lin?

Lulu Lin is 14 - she won't be age eligible for another 3 years.

 

[skatingguy]

Play-by-play posts updated to reflect the protocols.

 

[AYS]

About Amber: With caveat that I don't know her and I have no insight to how her coaching team works with her, and what psychological techniques they trying (I assume they must be), it was super clear in that performance from basically the triple axel, how it was going to end up, because her pacing got completely off - she just got and more rushed. I was sitting there saying, please slow down, pause at least for a split second, there should be choreography here, there, and there absolutely forcing her to slow down and just take a breath and there didn't seem to be.

I feel like a behavioral psychological approach during training and in structuring the programs that gives her forced times of slowing could really be beneficial and help prevent the way her performances go off. Maybe they try to do that and with her competition nerves, she just blows through the "slowdown" points, but it felt like the choreography itself wasn't helping her do that last night.

As far as anyone trying to claim she didn't help earn 3 US spots, she certainly did, with that top 10 finish. Two spots lower and all the silver medals in the world wouldn't have gotten it. Let's hope Jason can hang in the top 10 and/or Camden can go lights out for a top 10, and Ilia does what Ilia can do, so our guys can do the same.

I thoroughly enjoyed Kaori and Isabeau's performances, so different in style, highlighting different strengths and different things about what is beautiful about skating. There has really never been a skater like Kaori in my memory, with her swooping deep edging and full body engagement and use of levels throughout everything she does.

I also really enjoyed both Chiba and Yoshida, I really appreciate the broad range of styles the Japanese ladies have these days, and further down Taljegard's program, despite the fact that the jumps killed her.

 

[BlueRidge]

I love Josefin!

It was thrilling to watch Kaori win her third in a row. She is amazing.

I was ecstatic about Isabeau. I really had doubts after Nationals but she really pulled it all together in Montreal! Beautiful program.

I'm excited to see Chaeyeon Kim do so well, but I was really sad for both Young You and Haein Lee.

Happy for the Japanese skaters along with Kaori, such a great comeback for Mone and all around engaging skating from Hana Yoshida.

Kimmy was the bees knees last night! I got such a kick out of her smiles back stage after that marvelous skate. She is such an unusual body type, so happy to see her pull it together!

 

[NinjaTurtles]

Isabeau plays to my SashaFan(TM) sensibilities, but it’s a wonder how she lands anything the way she speeds through her basic skating and then grinds to a halt to setup her jumps. The flip is so cautious, but highly concentrated. You can see the focus and prayers smoking from her ears.

She’s a fierce competitor. She has clearly grown significantly just since Nationals. And while she has had a difficult season, I don’t think it was due to mental fitness nor a penchant for giving up after a mistake. She pushes herself seriously even when she doubts herself. Her reaction at the end says it all.

Curious to see how she tackles this off season.