Morgan Cipres charged in FL

[Perky Shae Lynn]

Delete. I feel dirty even discussing these "coaches"

 

[Tinami Amori]

I think the part of the story involving that coach is so incredibly weird and confusing that people don't know what to say about it. There have unfortunately been a lot of these types of scandals in the news but I have never heard of anything quite like that. It almost goes without saying that he's a creep so maybe people sometimes forget to even mention it because he's not someone anyone has heard of and I think everyone just assumes he will face consequences, so it's not something people are going to think to come back to to ask about. It is worth following up on though, you're right - has anyone heard about whether there have been any consequences for this guy?

This guy, the one who offered girls pizza for asking Cipres to send photo, is my biggest concern. We know that Cipres is a self centered narcissist who likes to expose himself and who thinks he is god's gift to women without these photos, we know that the coaches F/Z, like many coach, would be inclined to protect their skater before the Olympics, but we don't know what the heck this "lesser known coach" was trying to accomplish and whom he was trying to send off balance. He started this whole mess, and he should receive punishment.

 

[Perky Shae Lynn]

This guy, the one who offered girls pizza for asking Cipres to send photo, is my biggest concern. We know that Cipres is a self centered narcissist who likes to expose himself and who thinks he is god's gift to women without these photos, we know that the coaches F/Z, like many coach, would be inclined to protect their skater before the Olympics, but we don't know what the heck this "lesser known coach" was trying to accomplish and whom he was trying to send off balance. He started this whole mess, and he should receive punishment.

Preferably the punishment would include a criminal charge or two.

 

[Tinami Amori]

this is some rink... , on top of everything in this story, there are foreign skaters coaching students without credentials and american parents paying them on the side........

 

[MacMadame]

this is some rink... , on top of everything in this story, there are foreign skaters coaching students without credentials and american parents paying them on the side........

That happens much more often than you'd expect.

 

[Perky Shae Lynn]

That happens much more often than you'd expect.

Yeah, Wesley Chapel is not unusual. But one thing strikes me as bizzare - the rink owner's unwavering support of Zimmerman & Fontana. They are still billed as top coaches, with their pictures on the top of the main coaching board at the rink. Same with the website: https://www.ahcenterice.com/figure-skating/coaches-2/.

 

[Coco]

This guy, the one who offered girls pizza for asking Cipres to send photo, is my biggest concern. We know that Cipres is a self centered narcissist who likes to expose himself and who thinks he is god's gift to women without these photos, we know that the coaches F/Z, like many coach, would be inclined to protect their skater before the Olympics, but we don't know what the heck this "lesser known coach" was trying to accomplish and whom he was trying to send off balance. He started this whole mess, and he should receive punishment.

He didn't start it. If you want to be charitable, he revealed it. His motivations for doing so are unknown. They could range from incredulity to wanting to control/induce young girls sexual behavior or see Cipres naked.

 

[miffy]

If he only wanted to catch Cipres out (without causing harm to a young girl) he could have set up a fake account to send the request and handed the evidence straight to the relevant authorities. I’m not sure how legal that is in America but to me it seems a lot better than what he actually did! I can’t accept the idea he is innocent. If it wasn’t for him this would not have happened to that particular girl. You can’t just use a child to catch someone out. You’re still potentially ruining their life...?

 

[tony]

The case has many more layers than just A to B, as do all of them. Bottom line- what Cipres did was wrong and stupid, but it's not just that. I'm not trying to be 'I know more than you', but there are things that are near certain to come out as this proceeds that make some of these psychic comments and assumptions look incredibly

 

[Willin]

The case has many more layers than just A to B, as do all of them. Bottom line- what Cipres did was wrong and stupid, but it's not just that. I'm not trying to be 'I know more than you', but there are things that are near certain to come out as this proceeds that make some of these psychic comments and assumptions look incredibly

I mean, I think it's always been fairly obvious that there's a lot more to this story. While the original article had some good information, there was a lot of missing, confusing, and strangely worded pieces of the article - especially regarding the three coaches involved and the owner of the rink.

 

[Perky Shae Lynn]

The case has many more layers than just A to B, as do all of them. Bottom line- what Cipres did was wrong and stupid, but it's not just that. I'm not trying to be 'I know more than you', but there are things that are near certain to come out as this proceeds that make some of these psychic comments and assumptions look incredibly

Look, it's obvious that the case is a lot more complicated than it looks on paper. We can only base our opinions on available information. You are being "I know more than you", but you probably do know more, and can't say a thing. It's fine, and it's important that all of us remember not to jump to conclusions without having all the facts.

 

[Colonel Green]

If he only wanted to catch Cipres out (without causing harm to a young girl) he could have set up a fake account to send the request and handed the evidence straight to the relevant authorities. I’m not sure how legal that is in America but to me it seems a lot better than what he actually did! I can’t accept the idea he is innocent. If it wasn’t for him this would not have happened to that particular girl. You can’t just use a child to catch someone out. You’re still potentially ruining their life...?

I’m not sure why anybody is still entertaining the scenario that he was trying to catch Cipres, seeing as he joined the coverup afterward.

 

[once_upon]

He started this whole mess, and he should receive punishment.

No the person who started this "whole mess" was/is Cirpes.

Not to diminish the actions of the coaches or rink. But the criminal behavior started with Cipres.

 

[Debbie S]

Yeah, Wesley Chapel is not unusual. But one thing strikes me as bizzare - the rink owner's unwavering support of Zimmerman & Fontana. They are still billed as top coaches, with their pictures on the top of the main coaching board at the rink. Same with the website: https://www.ahcenterice.com/figure-skating/coaches-2/.

That doesn't seem bizarre to me at all. They are top coaches, there are prob still plenty of people who either don't know, don't believe or don't care and are still willing to pay them for coaching. The culture of skating (and in most places, really) is to protect the powerful/high-ups and not believe their accusers. Unless/until SafeSport finds them guilty/issues a ban, the rink is happy to continue business as usual.

 

[kwanfan1818]

People are still hiring Fajfr as their coach.

 

[emilieh]

It's maddening that skating parents will overlook things like this for a perceived "star" coach. I've seen it happen before—some parents get angry at the parent who "made trouble" and turned in a coach for inappropriate behavior, instead of being relieved that a predator was removed from their rink or being angry that such a person was allowed to come into the rink and have access to their kids.

 

[Tinami Amori]

No the person who started this "whole mess" was/is Cirpes.

Not to diminish the actions of the coaches or rink. But the criminal behavior started with Cipres.

I believe criminal behavior started with "the lesser known coach". He, an adult, came up to a minor and not only started a sexually explicit conversation, but encouraged her into a sexually explicit action.

 

[Perky Shae Lynn]

That doesn't seem bizarre to me at all. They are top coaches, there are prob still plenty of people who either don't know, don't believe or don't care and are still willing to pay them for coaching. The culture of skating (and in most places, really) is to protect the powerful/high-ups and not believe their accusers. Unless/until SafeSport finds them guilty/issues a ban, the rink is happy to continue business as usual.

It's not the occurrence itself that's bizarre. It's the culture of enabling. You'd think in this day and age the figure skating community would get on with the program. Yet many parents continue putting their ambitions ahead of everything else.

 

[barbarafan]

I'm going to try and expand upon this part of the story. My apologies for staying relatively vague - I try to err on the side of caution when discussing active cases. Like always, here is my disclaimer:



I 100% agree on that part of the article being really weird & confusing.

According to witnesses and digital evidence, Morgan was coaching multiple teenage girls around the time that these events occurred (along with the then 13 year old survivor). It was all being done "under the table" due to the fact that he was not a USFS member (a few coaches expressed concerns to the rink's administrative staff since he was allegedly uninsured - I haven't been able to determine if he was an ISI member yet so I can't fully confirm this but multiple people at the rink believed that he was uninsured). Also, there are other allegations of Morgan's "inappropriate" conduct with these girls (some of which may become public through future news articles, lawsuit filings or criminal charges).

A few sources have told me that Vinny's request for the pictures came after he got wind of these allegations (specifically, the ones involving the then 13 year old survivor). Granted, these sources didn't witness the actual pizza conversation so I'm not exactly sure if that's the case.

Based on the evidence that I've been able to review, my best guesses for why Vinny asked for the photos are a) he didn't really believe the allegations were true and "jokingly" asked for the photos as proof, only to be surprised when the survivor produced them or b) he asked for the photos in order to confirm the allegations. However, he could've also been asking for the photos for other reasons (manipulation, grooming, harassment, etc.)

After Vinny received the photos (i.e. the video of the survivor opening up the photos in IG since Morgan sent them using the "view-once" function), he allegedly showed them to another coach affiliated with the rink. That coach allegedly told him that what Morgan was doing was wrong and that Vinny had to report him. Vinny then went to John & Silvia and then the events that have been publicly covered took place (the intimidation, threats, slut-shaming, etc.) His motivation for participating in the cover-up/intimidation/emotional abuse of the then 13 year old girl seems to have been fear of losing his own job. However, Vinny himself is the only person who can answer that question.

Regardless of what happened, I 100% believe that he needs to be held accountable for his actions. However, while he was the instigator for the photos that are discussed in the article, he wasn't the instigator for all of Morgan's alleged misconduct.

If this Vinny person involved 13 yr olds in a scheme of "Catch him in the Act" he should be banned from coaching. The girls just thought it was a hoot (a funny dare) to get free pizza and I found out later that teens in Canada as well think it is funny to send nude pics as a joke. It also could be Vinny being jealous of Morgan's talent and fame so he was causing some shit for him to get into trouble but it ballooned way beyond his control. He is no Sherlock Holmes.If there are other allegations against Morgan to do with underage girls certainly they should be investigated and if true Morgan should be charged. Is Vinny still coaching at the rink?

 

[okokok777]

If this Vinny person involved 13 yr olds in a scheme of "Catch him in the Act" he should be banned from coaching. The girls just thought it was a hoot (a funny dare) to get free pizza and I found out later that teens in Canada as well think it is funny to send nude pics as a joke. It also could be Vinny being jealous of Morgan's talent and fame so he was causing some shit for him to get into trouble but it ballooned way beyond his control. He is no Sherlock Holmes.If there are other allegations against Morgan to do with underage girls certainly they should be investigated and if true Morgan should be charged. Is Vinny still coaching at the rink?

1) Ehh, I'm not sure if I would categorize the photos as being sent just as a funny dare (at least not on Morgan's end).

2) The last I heard, Vinny is still coaching at the rink. It's important to remember that Gordie (the rink owner) and other folks who work on the administrative side of things are also extremely complicit in this - so I don't see them getting rid of him, John or Silvia unless they are forced to.

3) In re: to the other allegations against Morgan, him being in France makes some of them much more difficult to investigate (i.e. in certain cases, there is no digital evidence and he can't be questioned). Some of the girls have explicitly said that they don't want to have anything to do with an investigation after seeing how the then 13 year old girl was treated. In the same way that the police originally closed the investigation in 2017 after the girl was too scared to cooperate, there isn't too much that the authorities can do in those cases other than wait to see if the claimant changes their mind.

 

[DreamSkates]

The guilt lies with anyone who took part in this behavior as discussed. If I were a parent with any child, skater or otherwise, I would have a frank talk with my child about situations such as this, to immediately tell me as a parent, and I then go to the authorities directly. I would bypass the rink coaches, etc. and go straight to the police.

 

[Perky Shae Lynn]

As far as I know, Vinny is still coaching there. I will know for sure by January 1st. Gordie blamed the "problem girl" for everything all along so.... Vinny is an adult, not even a young adult at this point. It's insane that he would do something so stupid, immature and irresponsible.

 

[LilJen]

If this Vinny person involved 13 yr olds in a scheme of "Catch him in the Act" he should be banned from coaching. The girls just thought it was a hoot (a funny dare) to get free pizza and I found out later that teens in Canada as well think it is funny to send nude pics as a joke. It also could be Vinny being jealous of Morgan's talent and fame so he was causing some shit for him to get into trouble but it ballooned way beyond his control. He is no Sherlock Holmes.If there are other allegations against Morgan to do with underage girls certainly they should be investigated and if true Morgan should be charged. Is Vinny still coaching at the rink?

A “hoot”? Wow. I don’t know what the laws are in Canada, but in the US ANY nude/seminude picture of any underage (under 18), whether sent or received, intentionally or not, qualifies as child pornography. Full stop. I’ve known teens who were completely unaware of this and got in trouble with the law as a result.

 

[Tinami Amori]

.................... and I then go to the authorities directly. I would bypass the rink coaches, etc. and go straight to the police.

Amen! I am tired of reading/hearing that "if you go to the police you'll be mistreated". If that happens, then complain higher up. People out to stand up for themselves even if it is difficult. Or better yet, deal with the offender yourself. If you can't punch the sunlight out of him, quietly in a dark corner, there are ways, then do this: Copy your daughter's "prick pics", print them out, show them to the offender, explain the laws and what he will face, and sell the photos for 5K... 5K will buy your daughter a lot of new coaching with another coach. Don't get mad, get even..

 

[Lemonade20]

Amen! I am tired of reading/hearing that "if you go to the police you'll be mistreated". If that happens, then complain higher up. People out to stand up for themselves even if it is difficult. Or better yet, deal with the offender yourself. If you can't punch the sunlight out of him, quietly in a dark corner, there are ways, then do this: Copy your daughter's "prick pics", print them out, show them to the offender, explain the laws and what he will face, and sell the photos for 5K... 5K will buy your daughter a lot of new coaching with another coach. Don't get mad, get even..

Blackmail may work but it won’t eliminate the problem. Predators will just move on. Smart thing is to report and call them out, ruining their reputation and making everyone be aware of them.

 

[Tinami Amori]

Blackmail may work but it won’t eliminate the problem. Predators will just move on. Smart thing is to report and call them out, ruining their reputation and making everyone be aware of them.

The purpose of this family was not to save the world from predators, but to protect their daughter. Right now they are dealing with a public scandal and the predator is unreachable. And some who are out for themselves and the situation affected their territory are blaming the girl or trying to avoid the issue. This decade a 13-year old would not die or even twitch from seeing a picture of a man's private part, worst yet she/he may think it's funny or cool. The damage started when Zimmermans started to threaten her. Now the whole thing is a mess and the family will not get much tangible satisfaction....

 

[overedge]

It doesn't matter what decade it happened in. An adult man showing a photo of their private parts to an underage child is never okay.

 

[antmanb]

A “hoot”? Wow. I don’t know what the laws are in Canada, but in the US ANY nude/seminude picture of any underage (under 18), whether sent or received, intentionally or not, qualifies as child pornography. Full stop. I’ve known teens who were completely unaware of this and got in trouble with the law as a result.

Add in the complication that children are often on their parents' mobile phone plans, and as the person who "owns" the mobile telephone contract the parent can also faces charges of distribution of child pornography in some jurisdictions where underage kids start sending nudes from their mobile phones. It's really something parents should be drumming into their kids as soon as they can.

 

[hanca]

Amen! I am tired of reading/hearing that "if you go to the police you'll be mistreated". If that happens, then complain higher up. People out to stand up for themselves even if it is difficult. Or better yet, deal with the offender yourself. If you can't punch the sunlight out of him, quietly in a dark corner, there are ways, then do this: Copy your daughter's "prick pics", print them out, show them to the offender, explain the laws and what he will face, and sell the photos for 5K... 5K will buy your daughter a lot of new coaching with another coach. Don't get mad, get even..

Wow, @Tinami Amori , I have always admired your unique take on things. Every time I think nothing can surprise me, you have some new, interesting perspective, some unique solution to a problem, that leaves me completely speechless.

Why bother blackmailing Cipres? You may as well invite Cipres for a Sunday lunch, drug him that he falls asleep and bribe a doctor or veterinarian to castrate him... Wouldn’t you like that solution? That’s getting even!

 

[Tinami Amori]

Wow, @Tinami Amori , I have always admired your unique take on things. Every time I think nothing can surprise me, you have some new, interesting perspective, some unique solution to a problem, that leaves me completely speechless.

Why bother blackmailing Cipres? You may as well invite Cipres for a Sunday lunch, drug him that he falls asleep and bribe a doctor or veterinarian to castrate him... Wouldn’t you like that solution? That’s getting even!

1) nothing unique about this solution. Negotiating monetary reward for damages is a common legal practice. The only difference this transaction would take place out of court and save everyone, including citizens, time and money.

2) "castrate" is of no benefit a) he can still send "short prick pics" and b) it's of no use to the victim, she was not raped, she was inconvenienced.