2022-23 US Pairs Discussion - Second to None!

shan · Oct 31, 2022

Did we ever figure out what happened with Smirnova and Siianytsia not competing at Skate America?

Karen-W · Oct 31, 2022

shan said:
Did we ever figure out what happened with Smirnova and Siianytsia not competing at Skate America?

Not that I'm aware of. We'll see where they compete next.

clairecloutier · Oct 31, 2022

Trillian said:
It’s probably just because I haven’t tried very hard, but since they changed the nationals qualification structure, I’ve found it impossible to follow. USFS could be drawing names out of a hat at this point, for all I know.

I kind of agree with this! I wish USFS would post a quick-ref explanation of how it all works on the page where they list the qualifying competitions. Also I was trying to look up results from last year’s NQS (for a specific skater/team), and couldn’t seem to find anything.

Karen-W · Nov 1, 2022

According to the US Pairs Final Schedule there are 12 senior teams and 10 junior teams competing next week.

Here's the list of SENIOR teams that have Byes to Nationals (Top 5 at 2022 Nationals, JGPF Qualifiers, and 3 Int'l Assignments):
*Baram/Tioumentsev
*Chan/Howe
*Knierim/Frazier
*McBeath/Bartholomay
*Mokhova/Mokhov
*Plazas/Fernandez

And the list of teams that competed in the NQS or had Byes to the US Pairs Final (1 Int'l Assignment), the one crossed out has since broken up:
Digerness/Sadusky
Fitzpatrick/Bearinger
Hanns/Neudecker
~~Kam/Meyh~~
Lockley/Caputo
Ouellette/Newby-Estrella
Romero/Ogren
Smirnova/Siianytsia
Wessenberg/Eisenach

There are only 8 teams on this list who HAVE to compete at the Pairs Final, but I'm guessing Baram/Tioumentsev will compete here since they haven't competed their senior FS since mid-summer, and this would be a good opportunity to try out any throw upgrades they've made since the JGP ahead of the JGPF. That brings us to 9 teams.

KniFraz & McBBar definitely won't be at the Pairs Final since they have a GP next week. ChanHowe's post-SCI IG posts have explicitly stated "onto our next GP!" so I think it's safe to guess they won't be competing at the Pairs Final either.

Adding in PlaFern and the Mokhovs brings us to 11 teams - they aren't required to compete there, but it wouldn't surprise me if they did since the Pairs Final is pretty local to them as they both train in Michigan. That leaves a 12th team and makes me think my guess that the brand-new team of Kam/O'Shea have, indeed, been given permission to compete at the Pairs Final even though they didn't compete in the NQS this summer.

So, it looks like the field will be the following 12 teams (3 have byes to Nationals) with 9 competing for 6 spots in the Nationals field.
*Baram/Tioumentsev
Digerness/Sadusky
Fitzpatrick/Bearinger
Hanns/Neudecker
Kam/O'Shea
Lockley/Caputo
*Mokhova/Mokhov
Ouellette/Newby-Estrella
*Plazas/Fernandez
Romero/Ogren
Smirnova/Siianytsia
Wessenberg/Eisenach

On the JUNIOR side - there's only one team that has a Bye to Nationals (JGPF qualifiers Smith/Deng), but with only 9 other teams, it seems apparent that Smith/Deng plan on using this as a tune-up for the JGPF. Presumably, if all 9 of the remaining teams meet whatever TES minimum set by the USFS, they will all qualify for Nationals.
*Smith/Deng
Black/Black
Church/Church
Delis/Schwab
Flores/Wang
Korytek/Chapman
Martins/Felberbaum
Murray/Gillette
Rivers/Rensing
Williams/Lewer

ice coverage · Nov 1, 2022

Karen-W said:
On the JUNIOR side - there's only one team that has a Bye to Nationals (JGPF qualifiers Smith/Deng), but with only 9 other teams, it seems apparent that Smith/Deng plan on using this as a tune-up for the JGPF. Presumably, if all 9 of the remaining teams meet whatever TES minimum set by the USFS, they will all qualify for Nationals.

Juniors do not have TES minimums for Nats.
Only seniors do.

Karen-W said:
Here's the list of SENIOR teams that have Byes to Nationals (Top 5 at 2022 Nationals, JGPF Qualifiers, and 3 Int'l Assignments):
*Baram/Tioumentsev
*Chan/Howe
*Knierim/Frazier
*McBeath/Bartholomay
*Mokhova/Mokhov
*Plazas/Fernandez

Very minor detail, but so far, the reason for Knierim/Frazier's bye is being on 2022 World Team.
(I get that they also are expected to qualify for and compete at GPF.)

Karen-W · Nov 1, 2022

ice coverage said:
Juniors do not have TES minimums for Nats.
Only seniors do.

Would you care to provide the senior TES min so that we know which of the 9 teams competing for the 6 open spots actually meet those?

ice coverage said:
Very minor detail, but so far, the reason for Knierim/Frazier's bye is being on 2022 World Team.
(I get that they also are expected to qualify for GPF.)

Do you want me to go back and edit my post?

ice coverage · Nov 1, 2022

Karen-W said:
Would you care to provide the senior TES min so that we know which of the 9 teams competing for the 6 open spots actually meet those?

Per TN 285, re 2023 Nats: Scores from this season from any NQS event, U.S. Pairs Final, and "any ISU competition" count.
SP and FS minimums do not need to be earned at same competition.
SP 22.0 and FS 40.0

Karen-W said:
Do you want me to go back and edit my post?

Not necessary, as far as I am concerned.
And I did not mean to offend.

I acknowledged that it was a very minor detail.

TanithandBenFan · Nov 1, 2022

Here are the WASA pairs competing at the Final:

M&M Pairs on Instagram: "We’re counting down…. 7️⃣ DAYS left until the 2022-23 U.S. Pairs Final in Lansing, Michigan!!! With exactly 1 week left until the pairs competition, our #WASAPairs team is working hard to make any final adjustments! 🤩🙌 [N

91 likes, 4 comments - mmpairs on November 1, 2022: "We’re counting down…. 7️⃣ DAYS left until the 2022-23 U.S. Pairs Final in Lansing, Michigan!!! With exactly 1 week left until the pairs competition, our #WASAPairs team is working hard to make any final adjustments! 🤩🙌 [Not pictured...

www.instagram.com

Karen-W · Nov 1, 2022

TanithandBenFan said:
Here are the WASA pairs competing at the Final:

M&M Pairs on Instagram: "We’re counting down…. 7️⃣ DAYS left until the 2022-23 U.S. Pairs Final in Lansing, Michigan!!! With exactly 1 week left until the pairs competition, our #WASAPairs team is working hard to make any final adjustments! 🤩🙌 [N

91 likes, 4 comments - mmpairs on November 1, 2022: "We’re counting down…. 7️⃣ DAYS left until the 2022-23 U.S. Pairs Final in Lansing, Michigan!!! With exactly 1 week left until the pairs competition, our #WASAPairs team is working hard to make any final adjustments! 🤩🙌 [Not pictured...

www.instagram.com

I was just scrolling through my IG and saw that. The pic was taken last Friday during their showcase. It does seem to confirm that Kam/O'Shea are being allowed to compete despite not qualifying for a bye to the Pairs Final.

ice coverage said:
Per TN 285, re 2023 Nats: Scores from this season from any NQS event, U.S. Pairs Final, and "any ISU competition" count.
SP and FS minimums do not need to be earned at same competition.
SP 22.0 and FS 40.0

Thanks! I think there was some question as to whether or not the TES min was different from last year.

Teams competing at the Pairs Final who are still in need of the TES minimums for Nationals:
Fitzpatrick/Bearinger FS (earned SP min at John Nicks Pairs Challenge)
Kam/O'Shea
Lockley/Caputo
Romero/Ogren

ice coverage said:
Not necessary, as far as I am concerned.
And I did not mean to offend.
I acknowledged that it was a very minor detail.

No worries. It's partially my fault since I keep forgetting they didn't compete at Nats last year.

SidelineSkater · Nov 1, 2022

A big thanks to all those who keep track of the rules and points and assignments for the rest of us to easily read here!

With all the retirements and splits, it's a great opportunity for the newer teams to get more international assignments than normal. It might happen at the beginning of a new quad, but even more so this year. The US has had a steady crop of top 1-4 teams with not much chance for exposure much below them.

Trying to be glass half full here

yeslek · Nov 1, 2022

AngieNikodinovLove said:
I don’t understand what the fuss is. 99.9% chance they will be the national champions which rarely ever go to 4cc anyway, no big loss if you ask me

I’ve gotten more or less used to that 4CC is where skaters in third and fourth or fifth place get the chance to compete

If I was US figure skating I would let them do whatever they want if it meant they kept competing

Karen-W · Nov 1, 2022

yeslek said:
If I was US figure skating I would let them do whatever they want if it meant they kept competing

Agree. As long as they compete at Worlds and we, hopefully, keep 3 spots for the following season, I'm a-okay with KniFraz skipping 4CCs. Same with ChoBat in dance for that matter. Three spots aren't in jeopardy for 4CCs in either pairs or dance since there aren't enough teams outside of the US & Canada to warrant limiting the field beyond the TES mins.

RoseRed · Nov 1, 2022

Karen-W · Nov 1, 2022

RoseRed said:
Everyone gets 3 spots at 4CCs. It doesn't depend on the past year's results.

Yesssss... That's my point. The US doesn't NEED KniFraz to compete at 4CCs to ensure we have 3 spots next season, however we do need them to compete at Worlds to ensure 3 spots next season. So, if they told the USFS they had no interest in competing at 4CCs but would rather be allowed to make money doing the Art on Ice shows, I'm sure the USFS was all "fine by us, as long as you do Worlds."

Worse case scenario, KniFraz are looking at 4th place in Saitama, which means our 2nd team only needs to finish 9th. That should be doable for ChanHowe, but by no means is it a guarantee (KniFraz, MiuKih, SDDes, PengJin, SafBeru, GhiAmbro, ConMac, HocKun, EfiBlom, ChanHowe, MetPark and GolGM). I can't imagine any combination of ChanHowe & 2 other teams finishing 6th & 7th to ensure 3 spots for 2024 Worlds unless Kam/O'Shea come out of the gate like gangbusters, but trusting a brand-new team at Worlds like that is a straight no.

5Ali3 · Nov 2, 2022

TanithandBenFan said:
And one of the comments says “Can’t wait to see you in Austria” so they must be going to Ice Challenge.

Karen-W said:
Ice Challenge doesn't have a pairs competition - not as a CS nor as a regular senior B.

Skate Austria is hosting an international called "Ice Challenge Next Gen" in conjunction with CS Ice Challenge. Senior Pairs are on the schedule as well as Junior Women, Men, Dance, and Pairs. If Kam and O'Shea are competing there, that sidesteps the problem of not obtaining an NQS score/not qualifying for the U.S. Pair Final. It also grants them a conflict bye to Nationals.

(Conflict byes still exist. The only announcement of that was a block of text when you logged into Members Only stating that the intention of the qualification rule changes didn't include eliminating conflict byes - can't ask athletes to be in two places at once - and conflict byes would continue to exist in accordance with this, but due to the number of committees who have to vote on the qualification document, the written document wouldn't be updated...) :slinkaway

Karen-W · Nov 2, 2022

5Ali3 said:
Skate Austria is hosting an international called "Ice Challenge Next Gen" in conjunction with CS Ice Challenge. Senior Pairs are on the schedule as well as Junior Women, Men, Dance, and Pairs. If Kam and O'Shea are competing there, that sidesteps the problem of not obtaining an NQS score/not qualifying for the U.S. Pair Final. It also grants them a conflict bye to Nationals.

(Conflict byes still exist. The only announcement of that was a block of text when you logged into Members Only stating that the intention of the qualification rule changes didn't include eliminating conflict byes - can't ask athletes to be in two places at once - and conflict byes would continue to exist, but due to the number of committees who have to vote on the qualification document, the written document wouldn't be updated...)

Well, seeing that the Pairs Final schedule lists 12 senior pairs and 10 junior pairs, I don't think any of them are competing in Austria, unless they're doing the Pairs Final and flying immediately to Austria.

Stefanie · Nov 2, 2022

I kept re-reading the list looking for Stellato-Dudek's name and then remembered she competes for Canada now. I need sleep. LOL.

5Ali3 · Nov 4, 2022

Karen-W said:
Well, seeing that the Pairs Final schedule lists 12 senior pairs and 10 junior pairs, I don't think any of them are competing in Austria, unless they're doing the Pairs Final and flying immediately to Austria.

There were 12 Senior Pair entries on the day that the public tentative schedule was made. There are currently eight Senior Pair entries.

Karen-W · Nov 4, 2022

5Ali3 said:
There were 12 Senior Pair entries on the day that the public tentative schedule was made. There are currently eight Senior Pair entries.

And still no start orders.

If there are only 8 entries now then, for sure neither PlaFern nor the Mokhovs are competing. I guess we'll find out which teams are giving it a go whenever the USFS uploads the start orders for the competition.

Karen-W · Nov 4, 2022

FYI - the Jr & Sr Pairs SP & FS events are available to save to "My Stuff" in the Peacock app already.

Jr Pairs Short - Nov 8th - 2:55pm ET
Sr Pairs Short - Nov 8th - 7pm ET
Jr Pairs Free - Nov 9th - 8:30pm ET
Sr Pairs Free - Nov 10th - 3:45pm ET

Karen-W · Nov 4, 2022

US Pairs Final Start Orders are finally up!!!

Seniors - Interesting...