ISU has cancelled 2021 Europeans, ISU Grand Prix Final, World Junior Synchro; Stockholm Worlds still on for now

[casken]

S/K are prob more likely to win than S/B. (Did both teams have YKW?)

Go Snake!

I was kind of assuming they either wouldn't be there, or have lost so much training time that even if they do, S&B are a more realistic choice.

 

[Meoima]

Am thinking this is an indication that Worlds is more likely than not to get cancelled.

I have the same feeling. So sad but at the same time I do not want skaters to force themselves to compete in this uncertain situation.

 

[Brenda_Bottems]

Now I shall pray for a North American sweep.

-BB

 

[Lemonade20]

Crazy, but understandable! It might be too hard for them to return to Canada after.

 

[MacMadame]

Wait a minute...does this mean that Papadakis and Cizeron are skipping Worlds in Stockholm (even if the competition is held)?

I wonder if they will change their minds if Worlds gets postponed.

 

[skategal]

I wonder if they will change their minds if Worlds gets postponed.

I have a feeling their decision is based a lot on Canada’s border restrictions and Gabby potentially not getting back into Canada.

Unless Worlds gets postponed until Fall, I doubt the border issues will be different for them before then.

 

[tony]

Maybe P/C don't feel like competing one time after less training, having no feedback on their program, potentially not winning, and then having to maybe play catch-up next season. I would also suspect that the couples in the 2-6 range now really want to show up and potentially win a Worlds- yes, Gilles/Poirier included.

But seeing how Lauriault/LeGac can't even finish as 2nd-best in France, I wouldn't hold my breath on any team getting into the top 12.

Then again, I still am 100% in favor of the competitions from September-December 2021 creating a ranking list that then determines Olympic quotas.

 

[Habs]

I know they can send 3 teams but I don't think their #3 team is capable of top 10 yet in spite of being former Jr World Champs. You have 3 USA, 3 Rus, 2 Can, the Italians, Spanish, Brits, and then the Chinese and Japanese are improving, plus the Poles that FSU loves to hate on, lol. L/L are talented but they're probably not making a top 10 debut at Worlds.

L&L wouldn't have to be top 10. It's the top two placements that count when there are three skaters/teams there, so it's the combined placements of G&P and FB&S that would count.

 

[Karen-W]

Maybe P/C don't feel like competing one time after less training, having no feedback on their program, potentially not winning, and then having to maybe play catch-up next season. I would also suspect that the couples in the 2-6 range now really want to show up and potentially win a Worlds- yes, Gilles/Poirier included.

But seeing how Lauriault/LeGac can't even finish as 2nd-best in France, I wouldn't hold my breath on any team getting into the top 12.

Agreed. P/C already lost their last competition to S/K. There isn't any upside to showing up to Worlds this year having not competed in nearly 14 months with Russia clearly gunning for that gold. It makes far more sense to remain in Montreal and avoid losing to S/K or another team that has had a chance to compete at least once ot twice.

France losing a 2nd spot in dance is also going to certainly impact the Team event in Beijing.

 

[Carolla5501]

It’s statistically highly probable several people will show up positive or become positive. Will there be any plan around this? Will close contacts be removed?

If you get invited to the event I am sure you will be provided with the information you need.
It's statistically highly probable that the ISU doesn't think you currently have the need to know or care about your desire to assess all their plans.

This can't possibly be true, as it would create situations that run afoul of the law. E.g., Imagine a dual U.S. and Belgian citizen who trained in Canada (which I believe Alice Sue Claeys was at one point). The ISU could not require her to enter the U.S. on a Belgian passport, or she would be arrested and jailed.

Similarly, a U.S. skater with dual European citizenship MUST enter the European Union on the EU passport. It is a serious offense, again subject to arrest and prosecution, if they enter their country of dual citizenship on the American passport. It's also technically illegal, though less likely to be caught, if they enter another EU country on the U.S. passport. It creates a potentially serious international conflict, should the person commit a crime or otherwise get in trouble, because the EU has "supremacy" while an EU citizen is in an EU country. The U.S. State Department has very limited rights and ability to help a dual American-EU citizen on EU soil.

Other countries have similar rules - I know of dual Australian - UK citizens who were detained and questioned for hours when they tried to enter Australia on their UK passport. The whole airport was shut down with alarms, etc. when they scanned their UK passports in the self-service machines.

The ISU may require skaters to present to competition officials a passport or ID of the country they're representing, but they cannot require skaters to travel on it. In Messing's case, it won't make a difference, but in other cases, it will.

Dual citizens, travelling between their two countries or a related country (in the case of EU/EEA), need to travel with both passports. Use Passport A to check in with the airline. Then use Passport B for exit checks. Then Use Passport A for entrance checks when you land. Then Use Passport B with the airline on the return flight home (remember to change the Advance Passenger Information). Then Use Passport A for exit checks. Then use Passport B for entrance. It seems shady and wrong, but it's the only legal way and will keep dual citizens out of trouble. Otherwise, you end up like my Australian-UK friends....



Yes, this is right, subject to laws I mentioned above.



What passport / citizenship does he have that's easier? Russian? Chinese? (I don't think China allows dual citizenship?) Neither of those seem much better than Uzbekistan, but maybe I'm wrong.

The ISU is not a government entity! They have absolutely know no way of knowing which passport you entered the country on. They may ask to see a passport of country X to let you skate but that's as far as they can go. (For those of you who haven't' traveled in a while, no you might not get an entry stamp any more)

Am thinking this is an indication that Worlds is more likely than not to get cancelled.

Well after all if this team can't come call off the entire event.

I figure it's a greater than average shot that it will get cancelled but I don't think one team making an announcement that they won't go an event makes it more or less likely to be cancelled.

 

[Debbie S]

If Worlds does indeed get canceled, how would they determine qualification for the team event in Beijing? IIRC, it would normally be a comb of int'l comps this season and the GP series next fall? And the GP series might not even happen normally. Use 2019 results?

 

[kwanfan1818]

Do they? I mean how did Tran participate the Worlds? He never had a Japanese passport. You sure it's not Olympics and the OC rules?

For Pairs and Dance, only one of the participants has to be a citizen/permanent resident of the country for which they are competing. (If a PR, they can travel under the passport to which their PR visa is attached/associated.) The other partner who is not a citizen/PR can travel under whatever passport/visa combination is valid for the country where the competition takes place.

Ge had the visa issues because he was a singles skater.

ETA: The ISU can always make exceptions where it would be illegal to travel under a given passport: the passport rules are for check-in to the event. I believe in most cases that @Louis mentioned above, there are no visas or there are visa waiver programs. The ISU doesn't know what passport you used to enter a country, unless you need a visa.

 

[Frau Muller]

If Worlds does indeed get canceled, how would they determine qualification for the team event in Beijing? IIRC, it would normally be a comb of int'l comps this season and the GP series next fall? And the GP series might not even happen normally. Use 2019 results?

Are we even certain that the next Winter Olympics will happen, in Beijing, in Feb 2022? If & when they happen, are we sure that all events will be on the schedule, let alone include ceremonies? I suppose that clues to the Winter Games will be gleaned whenever the IOC reveals latest (final) plans for the Summer Games.

 

[Braulio]

Papadakis/Cizeron not showing at worlds is understandable, but the implications for France at the Team event will suffer if they end up with only one entry they will have to skate Team (rhythm dance portion) and the 'real' Ice Dance competition

I can't see Lauriault/LeGac or Lopareva/Thauron making the top 10

 

[Elka]

As written above, they can travel with any valid document allowing them to cross the boarder. If they need a visa, AFAIK they can only get a visa support from the competition organisers for the passport of the country they are representing.

 

[Colonel Green]

Are we even certain that the next Winter Olympics will happen, in Beijing, in Feb 2022? If & when they happen, are we sure that all events will be on the schedule, let alone include ceremonies? I suppose that clues to the Winter Games will be gleaned whenever the IOC reveals latest (final) plans for the Summer Games.

The current outlook for vaccinations wouldn’t interfere with the Winter Olympics.

Even if the games were scaled back for some reason, figure skating is one of the centrepieces; they wouldn’t be in jeopardy.

 

[VGThuy]

We figure skating fans are lucky that it is the premier event for the Winter Olympics. I guess we're fans of it for the same reasons why it's the premier event at the Winter Olympics. My friends always accused me of being a huge fan because I love the drama of it outside of the rink. That may be true...

 

[tony]

We figure skating fans are lucky that it is the premier event for the Winter Olympics. I guess we're fans of it for the same reasons why it's the premier event at the Winter Olympics. My friends always accused me of being a huge fan because I love the drama of it outside of the rink. That may be true...

We all know you’re still yearning for Lifetime to pick up the GP pairs and dance again.

 

[Lara]

Papadakis/Cizeron not showing at worlds is understandable, but the implications for France at the Team event will suffer if they end up with only one entry they will have to skate Team (rhythm dance portion) and the 'real' Ice Dance competition

I can't see Lauriault/LeGac or Lopareva/Thauron making the top 10

But if anything, skating the team event ended up benefiting V&M in 2018. P&C might not have wanted to skip it this time anyway.

 

[VGThuy]

We all know you’re still yearning for Lifetime to pick up the GP pairs and dance again.

Not gonna lie...Lifetime had the BEST non-skating skating coverage ever. ABC has some excellent fluff pieces thanks to Dick Button's narration and the soundtrack they used (Kwan's Worlds 1997 is one of the best, and the Tara/Michelle send-off in that one post-Olympics weird cheesefest was another great one) but Lifetime brought the DRAMA and rivalries to the forefront using actual backstage competition footage to editorialize it even further. I think it was Lifetime that made me think all of the Japanese skating team HATED Fumie Suguri at one GP event (talking up the Arakawa/Onda rivalry with Suguri...the Arakawa/Onda friendship....and then showing Arakawa/Onda watching Fumie's LP skate with Onda replicating Suguri's Swan Lake arm waves), leading me and a friend to continue to say "Poor Poor Fumie".

 

[Colonel Green]

But if anything, skating the team event ended up benefiting V&M in 2018. P&C might not have wanted to skip it this time anyway.

With the reshuffling of the schedule putting dance near the front, I think any potential benefit from skating the team event is greatly reduced for dancers. There’s less turnaround time period, and in particular minimal time to make alterations based on how you’re judged in the team competition.

 

[Frau Muller]

The current outlook for vaccinations wouldn’t interfere with the Winter Olympics.

Even if the games were scaled back for some reason, figure skating is one of the centrepieces; they wouldn’t be in jeopardy.

True, although, if the Games are scaled back, the figure skating Team Event may be at risk. Not so the four indiv disciplines.

 

[Karen-W]

True, although, if the Games are scaled back, the figure skating Team Event may be at risk. Not so the four indiv disciplines.

If anything is scaled back it will be the # of competitors in the individual events as well as the # of teams/qualification process for teams - like teams will only qualify if they have already qualified competitors in each of the individual disciplines (no wildcard or 3-discipline teams).

 

[VGThuy]

With the reshuffling of the schedule putting dance near the front, I think any potential benefit from skating the team event is greatly reduced for dancers. There’s less turnaround time period, and in particular minimal time to make alterations based on how you’re judged in the team competition.

There's been a reshuffling?

 

[Karen-W]

There's been a reshuffling?

Yes. Order of figure skating events for Beijing 2022 is Team Event, Men's, Dance, Ladies, Pairs.

 

[starrynight]

If you get invited to the event I am sure you will be provided with the information you need.
It's statistically highly probable that the ISU doesn't think you currently have the need to know or care about your desire to assess all their plans.

As a fan of the sport I do care. Kostornaya is still too weak to return to training after being ill, which is heartbreaking.

That's the actual consequence to the sport and the athletes if an unsafe event occurs. If this event, or the travel process turns into a super spreader or athletes get stuck overseas, it could have some pretty significant consequences for some athletes' preparations for the Olympics.

This Worlds isn't like the Normandy landings of D-Day. We just need to get our athletes safely through this year, so we can enjoy competitions in the future once the vaccination programs have been fully rolled out around the world.

Anyway, the culture clash of rona has been so obvious since the international tennis players landed in Australia and have complained the whole time they've been here. I'm really understanding now that different countries will never see eye to eye on the need to have containment measures.

 

[Lemonade20]

As a fan of the sport I do care. Kostornaya is still too weak to return to training after being ill, which is heartbreaking.

That's the actual consequence to the sport and the athletes if an unsafe event occurs. If this event, or the travel process turns into a super spreader or athletes get stuck overseas, it could have some pretty significant consequences for some athletes' preparations for the Olympics.

This Worlds isn't like the Normandy landings of D-Day. We just need to get our athletes safely through this year, so we can enjoy competitions in the future once the vaccination programs have been fully rolled out around the world.

Exactly! We just need to get through this year and hope for the best.

 

[Carolla5501]

As a fan of the sport I do care. Kostornaya is still too weak to return to training after being ill, which is heartbreaking.

That's the actual consequence to the sport and the athletes if an unsafe event occurs. If this event, or the travel process turns into a super spreader or athletes get stuck overseas, it could have some pretty significant consequences for some athletes' preparations for the Olympics.

This Worlds isn't like the Normandy landings of D-Day. We just need to get our athletes safely through this year, so we can enjoy competitions in the future once the vaccination programs have been fully rolled out around the world.

Anyway, the culture clash of rona has been so obvious since the international tennis players landed in Australia and have complained the whole time they've been here. I'm really understanding now that different countries will never see eye to eye on the need to have containment measures.

So I still don't see why the ISU owes you an explanation of their contact tracing protocol?

You aren't actually going so they don't have to tell you. I doubt you hold a leadership role in a skating federation or they probably would have been in contact with you.

Sorry, caring does not equal "right to know and approve of the ISU decisions"

 

[starrynight]

Contract tracing protocol is precisely the controversy at the Australian Open now.

7 positive cases resulted in 72 players being deemed close contacts and then being required to hard quarantine for 14 days.

So the contract tracing protocol is really relevant to the staging of the event.

For example if a coach on the Plushenko team tests positive or another passenger on the same plane, does that then withdraw every member of that team and anyone who shared a plane or a bus with them? It's the question that's very important for athletes assessing the risk/benefit of attending. It might seem boring now, but it will be extremely important if Worlds happen.

And just so athletes can't say later they didn't know, I think any procedure does need to be clearly and publicly articulated in the public ISU announcements.

 

[Braulio]

World Championships in Sweden for Skicross are a GO officially, today they made it official and will run this next february