ISU Statement on Russia's war against Ukraine - Participation in international competitions of Skaters and Officials from Russia and Belarus

[ninjapirate]

Poor "Georgian" pair. Their 15 minutes of fame are over as the russians now have a new enemy

They didn't ask to be famous. Their 15 minutes of fame began with Ukrainian media and only after that did the sports.ru boomer brigade pounce.

 

[Frau Muller]

A russian who was born in russia and has lived in russia all his life has passports from the following countries: russia, Georgia and, for example, Burkina Faso.
Now the question is: who is he?

FYI, I personally didn’t care for Luca Berulava after last year’s performances/actions with his former partner. That’s why I called him Il Gentile when I mentioned him in a previous post!

My concern was with the Ukrainian skaters’ actions on the JPG podium.

 

[Frau Muller]

Long dead Russian composers and artists, some of whom died well before even the Bolshevik Revolution, are irrelevant to this conversation.

Russians living outside of Russia should be judged individually. Many actually leave and have recently left (including possibly Eteri's own SIL) because they don't support the war or at least don't want to be part of it. The Russian community where I live have rallied behind and supported the local Ukranian community to the point of supporting refugees. But there are some that support the war.

But if you're in Russia? You must remember that taxes exist. Regardless of whether you're of Russian ethnicity or getting funding from Russia (who fund sports as a branch of the military), if you're in Russia you're buying from businesses that pay taxes to the government and operates in an economy that supports the war. You pay sales tax to the Russian government when you shop. You (or your apartment) pays property taxes to the Russian government. You likely pay income taxes to the Russian government. That coach you're paying may or may not be a government employee. Regardless of your personal stance, your money is literally funding the war. If you actually cared that much, you could train outside of Russia - especially since you're not funded by the Russian government.

Alas, the composer bit was a big deal with some Chicagoans last winter! I’m with you.

Ordinary persons who cannot leave Russia and end up paying local taxes aren’t all bad. Do you know what it costs to drive in a convoy or take a flight to Turkey? Not every babushka in every village (in Russia or Ukraine) can hit the road. Our son & his wife got the heck out early and ended up in Australia, thanks to his employer. There’s no role for him here in Puerto Rico.

 

[Mafke]

persons who cannot leave Russia and end up paying local taxes aren’t all bad

What was stopping them from protesting? If just one percent of the population of Moscow had cared enough to take to the streets in late Feb 2022.... we wouldn't be here now and a lot of Ukrainians (and russian soldiers) would still be alive.

Ukrainians stood up to and changed unjust governments twice in ten years... russians have yet to find a moral backbone.

 

[airgelaal]

It seems that no one remembers Shabotova’s case. I am sure that these "Georgians’" love for Georgia will end just as quickly under similar circumstances.

 

[Aaron MB Fan]

What a bunch of lies. He writes as well as he rotates

You are a ridiculous, infuriating troll. Welcome to the first and only spot on my ignore list in over 20 years on this forum.

 

[caseyedwards]

You are a ridiculous, infuriating troll. Welcome to the first and only spot on my ignore list in over 20 years on this forum.

Wonderful!!!

 

[On My Own]

If just one percent of the population of Moscow had cared enough to take to the streets in late Feb 2022.... we wouldn't be here now and a lot of Ukrainians (and russian soldiers) would still be alive.

The evidence of this being that Putin is a very rational person who would have done nothing after seeing a large crowd in Moscow as he was preparing for war?

 

[airgelaal]

Nothing has changed for the russians. Great.

The ISU Council decided to explore the feasibility issues with regard to potential pathways to implement the IOC recommendations within ISU Sports.The Council will continue to monitor the situation in Ukraine and its impact on the ISU activity as well as the decisions and their implementation within the Olympic Movement. In the meantime, ISU Communication 2469 remains in force.

Shimada (JPN), Martynov (USA) and Tkachenko/ Kiliakov (ISR) take last tickets for the Final at ISU Junior Grand Prix Yerevan - International Skating Union

The gold medalists at the last JGP event in Yerevan (ARM), Mao Shimada (JPN), Daniel Martynov (USA) and Elizabeth Tkachenko/Alexei Kiliakov (ISR) took the last available tickets for the ISU Junior Grand Prix Final, that will take place on December 7-10, 2023 in Beijing (CHN).

www.isu.org

 

[Lanie]

I'm shocked, shocked I say.

Not shocked.

They will always get away with it.

 

[MacMadame]

Hopefully "explore the feasibility issues" just means they'll give it a look-see but then will continue as we are but now they can say "Hey, we did look into it like the IOC asked us to."

The reason I think that is because that seems to be what has happened so far and the language hasn't changed since the last few times they said they'd look into it and then said "Nope." If the language gets more conciliatory, then I think we all need to get very worried.

This is not to say that we shouldn't keep up the pressure because we should. That pressure is part of why they are continuing with the ban IMO. How many signatures has the petition gotten? Do we need more? Should we write to all those people again?

 

[Alilou]

Time to send those emails to the ISU council members to uphold the ban of Russian and Belarusian skaters.

I sent the following email to each member of the council:

Because the emails are going to the public NGB email address I am sending each email separately so in each case I can make the subject line:

Attention Mr/Ms <name of council member>: re skaters from Russia and Belarus


Please feel free to simply copy/paste my email. I don't think it matters. What matters is the number of people voicing their concerns even it all comes with the same wording. Or of course you may want to make changes or write your own.

Anyway here's the email I sent:

Dear Mr Kim/Mr Espeli/Ms Samaranch/etc (Whether they are male or female is pretty obvious. The Japanese member is a man)

I am contacting you with my concerns about re-admitting Russian and Belarusian athletes to ISU competitions.

The original reason for the ban was Russia's unprovoked attack on Ukraine, a sovereign nation. This situation has not changed, therefore these athletes should still be banned.

Russia continues to violate the concept of fair play through its unprovoked attack on Ukraine, thus sabotaging another member nation's ability to compete in the sport, and endangering the lives of this nation’s athletes.

Who determines whether an athlete from Russia or Belarus meets the IOC definition of an Individual Neutral Athlete? What does neutral mean - that the athlete is neither for nor against the war? All Russian athletes are state-funded and cannot, therefore, be neutral.

As you can see I have grave concerns about this situation. It seems clear-cut to me that nothing has changed, and that to speak of "neutral" athletes makes a mockery of all that Ukraine has endured.

Finally, given the aggressive behaviour of some fans from the Russian diaspora at recent sporting events, can you guarantee the security and safety of Ukrainian, and Ukrainian-born skaters who represent other countries, or of the many other skaters who have expressed vocal, sustained support for the Ukrainian cause? Will these skaters be safe at ISU events if Russian and Belarusian athletes are permitted to compete?

Thank you for your time and consideration.

Sincerely
Your name here


And just to make it really easy for you here is the list of email addresses. The email addresses are for the relevant NGBs

[email protected] Jae Youl Kim Korea

[email protected] Tron Espeli Norway

[email protected] Benoit Lavoie Canada

[email protected] Sergio Anesi Italy

[email protected] Gyorgy Elek Hungary

[email protected] Albert Hazelhoff Netherlands

[email protected] Tatsuro Matsumura Japan

[email protected] Eric Radford Canada

[email protected] Susanna Rakhamo Finland

[email protected] Patricia St. Peter United States

[email protected] Maria Teresa Samaranch Spain

[email protected] Suwanna Silpa-Archa Thailand

[email protected] Stoytcho Stoytchev Bulgaria

Even sending one email to one council member might help. We know Canada, US, and Finland will likely vote to uphold the ban so write to any/all of the others.

Bumping this up.
Maybe it's time to resend those emails.

Also this is good, from the ISU council Oct 6-8 meeting:

“The President of the ISU most likely feared taking responsibility for allowing Russians and Belarusians.” President of the Russian Skating Union about recent ISU Council

Translation of the comment made by the President of the Russian Skating Union that ISU Council didn't discuss the issue of allowing Russian and Belarusian athletes to international competitions.

fs-gossips.com

In this weekend, the ISU Council took place, and we were eagerly and skeptically waiting for the discussion of the issue of allowing Russian and Belarusian athletes to international competitions. Unfortunately, this issue was not even discussed, although it was on the agenda.

 

[EdgyIceMarks]

Essentially nothing changed since June right? They gave exactly the same statement regarding feasibility back then as the one posted now.

If the Match TV report quoted above is correct, then I'm guessing it means they just copy-pasted the same part of that statement without having discussed it any further.

 

[MacMadame]

Essentially nothing changed since June right? They gave exactly the same statement regarding feasibility back then as the one posted now.

Yes. I think it's their go-to CYA statement. But we should still keep the pressure up.

Also this is good, from the ISU council Oct 6-8 meeting:

“The President of the ISU most likely feared taking responsibility for allowing Russians and Belarusians.” President of the Russian Skating Union about recent ISU Council

Translation of the comment made by the President of the Russian Skating Union that ISU Council didn't discuss the issue of allowing Russian and Belarusian athletes to international competitions.

fs-gossips.com

From that article:

"They set their own agenda, and we cannot influence it in any way." (Nikolai Gulyaev, the President of the Russian Skating Union about the ISU)

So Russia doesn't think they have influence? I am doubtful about this but maybe the ISU has decided they like running things without the Russians as much as some of us like watching skating without skaters from Russia. Then again, it's probably BS.

 

[nyrak]

What a bunch of lies. He writes as well as he rotates

Do you actually support drug cheats in competion?

 

[caseyedwards]

Do you actually support drug cheats in competion?

No sport in the world has a policy of if you fail a test once you are banned for life. So I guess so!! Maybe one day there will be a policy across all sports to say one who failed a test is banned for life. There’s no evidence at all there was purposeful doping by Valieva.

 

[caseyedwards]

Yes. I think it's their go-to CYA statement. But we should still keep the pressure up.

From that article:

"They set their own agenda, and we cannot influence it in any way." (Nikolai Gulyaev, the President of the Russian Skating Union about the ISU)

So Russia doesn't think they have influence? I am doubtful about this but maybe the ISU has decided they like running things without the Russians as much as some of us like watching skating without skaters from Russia. Then again, it's probably BS.

Lol Russia has so much influence all of its skaters are banned probably forever now it looks like

 

[Mafke]

no evidence at all there was purposeful doping by Valieva

The controversy is not about that.... that's what hearings are for. People are upset because the medal ceremony was cancelled for no good reason.
After the test, russia should have been disqualified, the medals awarded to the teams that earned them.
Then the inquiries into what really happened could start.
I still have not seen anything remotely resembling a coherent, logical or ethical reason for cancelling the ceremony.

 

[Sylvia]

We already have a 3000+ post thread in GSD for the doping scandal/canceled medal ceremony.

"The ISU wants to break up the alliance between Russia and Belarus. Cunning plan of the West?" Oct. 6th editorial by Boris Khodorovsky (published before the ISU Council meeting):

В ISU хотят разбить союз России и Белоруссии. Хитрый план Запада?

Международный союз конькобежцев (ISU) будет решать вопрос допуска россиян к соревнованиям на совете в Лозанне 6-8 октября. РИА Новости Спорт рассказывает,... РИА Новости Спорт, 06.10.2023

rsport.ria.ru

 

[Sylvia]

"Kogan said: we are not interested in you." Interview with the chief of Belarusian figure skaters [Oleg Vasilev] by Andrey Simonenko:

"Коган сказал: вы нам не интересны". Интервью шефа белорусских фигуристов

Российские и белорусские фигуристы уже более полутора лет лишены возможности выступать на международной арене, но до сих пор не прошло ни одного турнира, где бы РИА Новости Спорт, 22.10.2023

rsport.ria.ru

 

[caseyedwards]

The controversy is not about that.... that's what hearings are for. People are upset because the medal ceremony was cancelled for no good reason.
After the test, russia should have been disqualified, the medals awarded to the teams that earned them.
Then the inquiries into what really happened could start.
I still have not seen anything remotely resembling a coherent, logical or ethical reason for cancelling the ceremony.

This is not precedent in all cases. The most similar case is raducan 2000 where the team kept its medal because they didn’t work together

 

[her grace]

Raducan didn’t fail a drug test before the team event or in the testing after that event. She failed the test after the all-around.

 

[caseyedwards]

Raducan didn’t fail a drug test before the team event or in the testing after that event. She failed the test after the all-around.

Failing a test months before the Olympics can’t be worse than failing one during the Olympics

 

[On My Own]

I agree. It's like when you fail the English reading comprehension test before posting on FSU and talk about the drug test on a thread meant to discuss Russian exclusion from figure skating due to the war they are waging on Ukraine.

 

[VGThuy]

This is not precedent in all cases. The most similar case is raducan 2000 where the team kept its medal because they didn’t work together

I know you’re just making arguments up for attention now, but the real reason she kept her gold in the team event and her results in the event finals, including a medal on vault, was because she had also taken drug tests after those events and they came back clean.

Had she tested positive right before the Sydney games started, well I don’t know what the rules were then but I’m sure there may have been rules that could have resulted her in being banned from competing. In fact, there was a lot of controversy about whether she should have been banned.

Subsequently, she wasn’t banned afterwards because they felt her being stripped of her all-around gold was enough and punished the doctor severely. It was also the drug itself and why she took it (and admitted she took it under orders from the doctor who admitted he had administered it without checking to see if there was a banned substance) to treat a cold were all plausible and believable stories of a stupid mix up where the brand medication contained a banned substance in Australia where it might not have in Romania… or something like that.

Interesting to note, when CAS heard Raducan’s appeal, it said:

Răducan's case was brought before the Court of Arbitration for Sport in late September 2000. While the arbitration panel did concede that Răducan had not gained any advantage by taking the pseudoephedrine, and that she was an underage athlete who had followed her team physician's instructions, they also upheld the IOC's decision. The basis for their decision was the belief that the Anti-Doping Code of the Olympics had to be enforced "without compromise", regardless of the intentions or age of the athlete.

Of course, things changed since then and we know age is a consideration for a more lenient sentence/punishment but the situation with Russia is also quite different than it was for Romania who didn’t have the same… storied recent history of known and acknowledged doping.

 

[Dobre]

We could discuss genocide, all the Ukrainian children losing limbs, torture, kids being kidnapped, healthcare and aid workers being targeted and murdered, schools and hospitals being bombed, women/men/children raped, towns and cities razed to the ground, the elderly left to possibly drown after the bombing of a dam, the stealing & burning of grain . . .

But, oh no, Russia doesn't want us to talk about any of that when it's all "just" about sports. If we're going to talk about Russia's involvement in sports, then the drug results are fair game.

 

[nyrak]

No sport in the world has a policy of if you fail a test once you are banned for life. So I guess so!! Maybe one day there will be a policy across all sports to say one who failed a test is banned for life. There’s no evidence at all there was purposeful doping by Valieva.

What other country has such widespread doping? And their own testing lab? They likely doped Valieva because they knew she was too young to be held accountable. Her age shouldn't be a factor. She failed the test. Many Russians in many sports have failed drug tests. Keep them out.

 

[caseyedwards]

What other country has such widespread doping? And their own testing lab? They likely doped Valieva because they knew she was too young to be held accountable. Her age shouldn't be a factor. She failed the test. Many Russians in many sports have failed drug tests. Keep them out.

China Kenya United States etc

 

[Theatregirl1122]

No sport in the world has a policy of if you fail a test once you are banned for life. So I guess so!! Maybe one day there will be a policy across all sports to say one who failed a test is banned for life. There’s no evidence at all there was purposeful doping by Valieva.

No one is advocating for Valieva to be banned for life, so what's your point.

 

[Sylvia]

"Kogan said: we are not interested in you." Interview with the chief of Belarusian figure skaters [Oleg Vasilev] by Andrey Simonenko:

"Коган сказал: вы нам не интересны". Интервью шефа белорусских фигуристов

Российские и белорусские фигуристы уже более полутора лет лишены возможности выступать на международной арене, но до сих пор не прошло ни одного турнира, где бы РИА Новости Спорт, 22.10.2023

rsport.ria.ru

Machine translated excerpts:

Russian and Belarusian figure skaters have been deprived of the opportunity to compete on the international stage for more than a year and a half, but so far there has not been a single tournament where they competed with each other. If Belarusians perform in Russia, they do so outside of competition—you won’t find their names in the final protocols. About the reasons for this situation, as well as why the International Skating Union is in no hurry to return athletes from our two countries to the “family,” a RIA Novosti Sport correspondent spoke with the head coach of the Belarusian figure skating team, Honored Coach of Russia, Olympic champion Oleg Vasiliev.

- There are recommendations from the International Olympic Committee (IOC), but the ISU still does not want to implement them, not allowing Russian and Belarusian figure skaters to participate in international competitions. Why do you think?
- Firstly, the word “recommendations” has nothing behind it. Secondly, let's remember that the ISU board is made up of people aged 80 give or take years. They all have high salaries, under a million dollars a year, which are provided by the IOC. And until the IOC actually tells the ISU “allow it,” they won’t do anything. Are they feeling bad? They travel to international competitions, fly business class, and live in five-star hotels. All this, as well as food and drinks, is paid for. This is all in addition to salary.

- But ISU is losing money due to the absence of Russians.
- They have more than $200 million in reserves. They will earn three million dollars a year less because there are no Russians - so what? This is not catastrophic for them.
I spoke with ISU CEO Fredi Schmid at the ISU Congress a year ago. They understand perfectly well that they are losing money. But peace and well-being for the members of the board and the top of the ISU are much closer than the three to four million potential losses due to the absence of the Russians.

- What does “calm” mean? What are they afraid of - incidents?
- They're not afraid of anything. They didn’t want to let Russians into the same congress a year ago, but then they let them in, and nothing happened, everyone communicated calmly, no one “punched anyone in the face.” They just don't want any complications. No matter what happens. You and I may not understand this. When we reach the age of 80, we will have a pension of 50 thousand dollars a month - then maybe we will understand.
And let’s not forget that all the athletes and countries that didn’t even claim the podium before are now with medals. The entire world figure skating community is happy that there are no Russians. A different level of competition, a different distribution of bonuses. Everyone likes.

- But this is discrimination, and the IOC has leverage over the ISU, like any international federation - to take away the right to host Olympic competitions, cut off funding...
- It ’s not easy for Thomas Bach either. I wouldn't want to be in his place right now. Where are the IOC sponsors from? That's right, from the West. If Bach does something they don't like, what will happen? Complete collapse of the Olympic movement. I think Bach doesn't want his name associated with this.
Bach initially allowed this situation. But now he can’t get out of it. If he had immediately said that sport is outside of politics, whoever wants to participate in competitions, whoever doesn’t want to does not participate, the situation would have been different. But he followed the political lead of his sponsors. And now he’s rushing about, saying one thing, then another. And he has no control over the situation.

- Returning to the ISU, we had influence in this organization. How did we lose it?
- Through their own fault. They did it with their own hands. You and I have already talked about “dinners between Russian coaches and international judges,” contracts and so on. Nobody liked it. And little by little they tried to remove us from all significant positions. Nobody liked the extra pressure - neither the Americans, nor the Canadians, nor the Europeans. We overdid it and got backlash. It was necessary to be more flexible, reasonable, diplomatic, and not arrogant and stubborn.

- Is it hard for figure skaters in Belarus?
- Very. Motivation – zero. There is neither a financial incentive, as there is for Russian figure skaters, nor tournaments where one could compete at a high level. There are a lot of competitions themselves - but these are all “infighting”. Our athletes in each discipline can be counted on the fingers of one hand - and they compete in all domestic Belarusian tournaments in a row.
We have already lost one of the two couples - Dmitry Bushlanov said that it would be better to earn money in Sochi than to train for $400 a month - this is a salary in the national team, without knowing why.

- Is it no longer possible to persuade you to hold on?
- In the first year of suspension, I was still able to somehow motivate and promise something. In the second year, there was practically no trust in me. But still, persuasion and promises alone will not pull you through. It’s hard for Russian athletes, despite the fact that their situation is much better. It is very difficult for Belarusian athletes.

- Don’t you think that the same FFKKR is not actively resisting the discriminatory actions of the ISU? There was a joint claim by the Russian Skating Union and the FFKKR to the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) for suspension. The hearings were supposed to take place in May 2023, but there is no information about this.
- By contacting CAS, we play on their territory. This means that you are potentially a loser. Plus it's expensive. It’s probably impossible not to do this either. But to do it knowing that you will lose money and lose 99%... Just to show that we are not giving up?

- Show the same athletes that they are fighting for their interests.
“The fact that we file lawsuits, spend several million dollars, flounder and lose the case will not make it any easier for them.”

- You worked both in France and in the USA, you have many friends from the world of figure skating. Do you feel any support from them in the situation of withdrawal? In other words, is Figure Skating Family a family or not a family anymore?
- Sergei Voronov now works for me in Minsk, he is the senior singles skating coach in the Belarusian national team. Recently he was at one of the stages of the Junior Grand Prix. I asked him - you are a Russian coach, in the recent past a Russian athlete. What does it feel like? He answered: in general, as usual, there are, of course, individuals who greet through clenched teeth, but there are only a few of them. Some say that it’s boring without the Russians and their quadruples, others are happy with the situation. In general, the situation is calm and not hostile.
That is, such that they are waiting for us, or everyone doesn’t want to see us - no. Everyone there - or the majority - is satisfied with the current situation. When we return, they won't kick us. But hard times will begin again for them, when they will have to do quadruple jumps in single skating, some super complex throws and lifts in pair skating... And now everyone is performing calmly, everything has dropped a floor or two lower, and they feel very comfortable. Why do they need Russians?