ISU Statement on Russia's war against Ukraine - Participation in international competitions of Skaters and Officials from Russia and Belarus

[caseyedwards]

No one is advocating for Valieva to be banned for life, so what's your point.

I was asked if I want dopers in sports and I said yes as she failed a test. I guess that makes her and anyone who fails a test once a doper.

 

[Sylvia]

What do people think about what Oleg Vasilev said about Bach in his interview?

- It ’s not easy for Thomas Bach either. I wouldn't want to be in his place right now. Where are the IOC sponsors from? That's right, from the West. If Bach does something they don't like, what will happen? Complete collapse of the Olympic movement. I think Bach doesn't want his name associated with this.
Bach initially allowed this situation. But now he can’t get out of it. If he had immediately said that sport is outside of politics, whoever wants to participate in competitions, whoever doesn’t want to does not participate, the situation would have been different. But he followed the political lead of his sponsors. And now he’s rushing about, saying one thing, then another. And he has no control over the situation.

 

[Primorskaya]

About Bach: interesting to hear what the other side thinks about him. Are all the sponsors from we would loosely call "the West"? What of China and non-aligned countries?
The following caught my eye, on the same subject of money, as let's face it, it usually is the answer to a lot of our "But why do they do this?" questions:

- But ISU is losing money due to the absence of Russians.
- They have more than $200 million in reserves. They will earn three million dollars a year less because there are no Russians - so what? This is not catastrophic for them.
I spoke with ISU CEO Fredi Schmid at the ISU Congress a year ago. They understand perfectly well that they are losing money. But peace and well-being for the members of the board and the top of the ISU are much closer than the three to four million potential losses due to the absence of the Russians.

Does the ISU have such a reserve? Where does Vasiliev pull this number from? And what of those 3/4 million USD a year that Russian participation allegedly brings, or doesn't bring, at the moment.
Because if all of the above is correct, why the everlasting feck did the ISU put up with Russian misbehaviour for so long? I always assumed that the leniency owed more to the fact that they were a massive source of income than to simple pressure and lobbying.

 

[On My Own]

- But ISU is losing money due to the absence of Russians.

But at least I'm not losing my braincells looking at their skating and then at their scores.

Looks like they won't be back, I'm happy.

Because if all of the above is correct, why the everlasting feck did the ISU put up with Russian misbehaviour for so long? I always assumed that the leniency owed more to the fact that they were a massive source of income than to simple pressure and lobbying.

Because it was headed by Lakernik?

Because a loss is still a loss?

Russian money seems important for many sports, in fact. But if the ISU members have grown a backbone now, I'm happy with that.

 

[Vagabond]

- Returning to the ISU, we had influence in this organization. How did we lose it?
- Through their own fault. They did it with their own hands. You and I have already talked about “dinners between Russian coaches and international judges,” contracts and so on. Nobody liked it. And little by little they tried to remove us from all significant positions. Nobody liked the extra pressure - neither the Americans, nor the Canadians, nor the Europeans. We overdid it and got backlash. It was necessary to be more flexible, reasonable, diplomatic, and not arrogant and stubborn.

Couldn't it just possibly be that they lost influence because of Russia's invasion of Ukraine and Belarus' support for it?

 

[On My Own]

Couldn't it just possibly be that they lost influence because of Russia's invasion of Ukraine and Belarus' support for it?

I think it's showing clearly that the rest of the big feds have been pissed off at the Russians for a while and are preventing them from coming back. I won't be shocked if it's less about the moral issue, more about just being annoyed at RusFed. Which works for us, I guess.

 

[Hedwig]

I think it's showing clearly that the rest of the big feds have been pissed off at the Russians for a while and are preventing them from coming back. I won't be shocked if it's less about the moral issue, more about just being annoyed at RusFed. Which works for us, I guess.

I dont care anymore what the reason is as long as the ban is hold up as long as this war goes on and no serious retribution has been done and paid by Russia.

 

[alice73]

I recently watched artistic gymnastics World Championship. The Ukrainian athletes who competed there, at least some of them train in Kyiv, including Nazar Chepurnyi who won bronze on vault. It horrifies me to think that this young man and his teammates would have to compete alongside Russians, if it wasn’t for the ban.

 

[vireo]

- Returning to the ISU, we had influence in this organization. How did we lose it?
- Through their own fault. They did it with their own hands. You and I have already talked about “dinners between Russian coaches and international judges,” contracts and so on. Nobody liked it. And little by little they tried to remove us from all significant positions. Nobody liked the extra pressure - neither the Americans, nor the Canadians, nor the Europeans. We overdid it and got backlash. It was necessary to be more flexible, reasonable, diplomatic, and not arrogant and stubborn.

This is the section I find so curious. Dinners that nobody liked? Pressure? Backlash? What on earth is he talking about?

 

[Karen-W]

I think the Russians/"Belarusians" are in a state of denial about their current position within the ISU. It will be really interesting to see what revenues/projected revenues by geographic area look like in the ISU budget next spring. The Russians (and by proximity as a satellite, Belarusia) had leverage due to the substantial money being brought into the ISU coffers pre-war. I suspect a lot of the Russians are burying their heads in their hands, pretending to ignore the impact of sanctions. Just look at the production show show they're making out of the Test Skates - "nooo, Russians at home, all is still well and normal!" How long before they money to fund their domestic propaganda runs out and what is the consequence then?

 

[caseyedwards]

I think the Russians/"Belarusians" are in a state of denial about their current position within the ISU. It will be really interesting to see what revenues/projected revenues by geographic area look like in the ISU budget next spring. The Russians (and by proximity as a satellite, Belarusia) had leverage due to the substantial money being brought into the ISU coffers pre-war. I suspect a lot of the Russians are burying their heads in their hands, pretending to ignore the impact of sanctions. Just look at the production show show they're making out of the Test Skates - "nooo, Russians at home, all is still well and normal!" How long before they money to fund their domestic propaganda runs out and what is the consequence then?

The sanctions are not working at all.

Russia’s Economy Is Increasingly Structured Around Its War in Ukraine (Published 2023)

The nation’s finances have proven resilient, despite punishing sanctions, giving it leeway to pump money into its military machine.

www.nytimes.com

There was a big to do about a cap on gas prices that would destroy Russia in a week- it’s fine. Cap doesn’t work.

Why western countries are giving Ukraine drones to attack Russia interior and maybe missiles soon

 

[Dobre]

What do people think about what Oleg Vasilev said about Bach in his interview?

It sounds to me like some of the Olympic sponsors are either a. more responsible than Bach, b. hearing from angry consumers threatening not to watch the Games if Russia is competing, or c. both a & b.

Also, I'm questioning whether its just sponsors from the "West." I'd hypothesize there might be some unhappy sponsors from Japan and South Korea as well.

 

[On My Own]

This is the section I find so curious. Dinners that nobody liked? Pressure? Backlash? What on earth is he talking about?

'Politics'

 

[Willin]

I think it's showing clearly that the rest of the big feds have been pissed off at the Russians for a while and are preventing them from coming back. I won't be shocked if it's less about the moral issue, more about just being annoyed at RusFed. Which works for us, I guess.

Yeah, this is probably the issue. Russia's system of apparently (at least) taking judges to dinner worked a little too well.

There's cheating like in 6.0 that all feds did and were to some extent were all successful at. Then there's the Russian judging manipulation in the last 10 years that only they seemed good at. It was as if the Russian skaters were held to an entirely different and nonsensical standard that no one else was. The biggest incident was the Sochi judging scandal, but the PCS, GOE, and calling for the Eteri girls in particular were extremely suspicious. It continues now with Davis/Smolkin's crazy inflated scores.

And aside from hurt pride, there's a lot of money to be lost by every other fed by this manipulation. Skating gets bigger when you have winners. With the Russian ladies the much more talented (IMO) Japanese and Korean ladies were boxed out. The US and Canadian ladies that could've made big splashes and money in US media markets - potentially spurring interest and participation in figure skating - were left off many podiums the probably should've made. Individual skaters themselves also likely lost quite a bit of money off of potential sponsorships or prize money they missed out on by the strange judging choices.

So of course with how blatant it was in the last 10 years in ladies' the other feds would've been extremely pissed and tried something. The doping scandal/war was a great excuse to do it.

 

[PRlady]

Sitting where I am is a great opportunity to be reminded what a potent force nationalism is. As a diehard skating fan, I like who I like and my favorite skaters are a Japanese man and woman (Yuma and Kaori) and US (H/B) Canadian (B/B) and Korean (L/Q) dance teams. But most people who are casual fans cheer for their own countries’ skaters and in pairs and ladies, that’s no medals for anyone but Russians in the last few cycles.

So to the extent that banning Russians makes others happier, the Russian kvetches have a point. But they’d still be in there winning medals, deserved or not, without a pattern of doping and terrible exploitation of their own young skaters, not to mention a war of aggression. It’s not jealousy keeping them out.

 

[On My Own]

But they’d still be in there winning medals, deserved or not, without a pattern of doping and terrible exploitation of their own young skaters

How do you know this? Is there any evidence that without their state regimen the Russian athletes would have somehow ended up being good at what they were?

It’s not jealousy keeping them out.

How exactly do you come to this conclusion after reading the opinions the rest of the big feds are pissed off at them because of skating fed politics and are now keeping them out using the war as an excuse?

The US and Canadian ladies that could've made big splashes and money in US media markets - potentially spurring interest and participation in figure skating - were left off many podiums the probably should've made.

I doubt any of the American or Canadian ladies could have made splashes and money in US media markets, no matter what they won, and I don't think they deserved to make podiums over Japanese and Korean ladies anyway. Truth be told, I find many Americans and Canadians overscored for low quality skating, and without even Russian skaters big tech elements. Whatever my opinion on Valieva, she was a superior performer to most American and Canadian ladies of the past decade for me. Would say 'all' if Karen Chen didn't exist.

Please look at how Kaori Sakamoto has two world titles, and yet she's not close to being as popular as Mao Asada. If someone as talented as her can't make it in Japan where skating is as big as it is, then I find the notion that some random North American woman could have made it big in North American markets to be quite strange.

 

[Firedancer]

The Russian Olympic committee has been suspended by the IOC. No additional details yet.

https://x.com/duncan_itg/status/1712461810555879631?s=46&t=t-qfJxDjad9-j4B-GsMqGg

 

[Hedwig]

https://twitter.com/iocmedia/status/1712461857334906939?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet%7Ctwtr%5Etrue

 

[Hedwig]

Reason given: the annex of regions like Donesk and including them in the Russian Olympic area. This is a breach of territorial integrity and therefore ban until further notice.

So good.

But I am SPEECHLESS at the same time that it took the proclamation of annexed regions as belonging to Olympic Russian territory for the IOC to actually DO this. So invading a sovereign country, killing, raping and kidnapping is not enough?

But well. I should not complain but celebrate!

 

[Firedancer]

Now that we see the details I am disappointed (but sadly not surprised) it is still leaving open the possibility of Russian athletes competing as neutral athletes. They should all be suspended with their Olympic committee.

 

[Theatregirl1122]

Reason given: the annex of regions like Donesk and including them in the Russian Olympic area. This is a breach of territorial integrity and therefore ban until further notice.

So good.

But I am SPEECHLESS at the same time that it took the proclamation of annexed regions as belonging to Olympic Russian territory for the IOC to actually DO this. So invading a sovereign country, killing, raping and kidnapping is not enough?

But well. I should not complain but celebrate!

It kind of feels like they were searching for a justification that people couldn't claim "wasn't about sports"

Now that we see the details I am disappointed (but sadly not surprised) it is still leaving open the possibility of Russian athletes competing as neutral athletes. They should all be suspended with their Olympic committee.

I think it will depend on how they enforce it how I feel about it. If "neutral" means "everyone" or "everyone not literally in the army", I will be very frustrated. If it's limited to like "athletes who have fled Russia," I would be okay with that.

 

[thvu]

I think it will depend on how they enforce it how I feel about it. If "neutral" means "everyone" or "everyone not literally in the army", I will be very frustrated. If it's limited to like "athletes who have fled Russia," I would be okay with that.

Right. I feel like the IOC is just telegraphing allowing in Russian athletes. They're playing the double-speak game - "Russia is a bad actor and we suspended them" and at the same time "we reserve the right to welcome Russian athletes."

I don't read this announcement as any type of progress of the IOC doing anything to actually punish the Russian state. Rather, they're still trying to find a politically palatable way to allow their participation.

 

[On My Own]

It's unsettling to see them wait for the "claimed annexed Ukrainian territory as part of the Russian Olympic territory" reason...

If the decision of participation is left yet again to the respective international sports unions/governing bodies, then I don't think we will see Russians at the Milan Olympics (from discussion before).

 

[airgelaal]

Now that we see the details I am disappointed (but sadly not surprised) it is still leaving open the possibility of Russian athletes competing as neutral athletes. They should all be suspended with their Olympic committee.

That's it. The IOC still wants to see the russians in Paris. Their recommendations don't work at all.
The athlete openly declares: let's raise money for the russian army. And the international federation says: let's congratulate this athlete on his victory.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1712402173802193324

The IOC does not react in any way. The only time there was any reaction from the IOC was the scandal with Harlan. But she is one of the most titled fencers in the world, and it’s hard to ignore her. In other cases, the IOC closes its eyes.

 

[barbk]

My personal experience with the IOC members decades ago was that they were an entitled (literally, in several cases), snobby, and out-of-touch group who actively disdained "the little people." Sharing an office building with them during the LA Olympics was very unpleasant. It included a requirement that we step out of the elevator - even if it wasn't on the correct floor - if an IOC member stepped in. They ignored us, though that might have been cultural.

They also smoked. In LA. In buildings. I was glad when we were all released to go away during the Olympics.

On the good side - the clothes and shoes were pretty fab, the cars (with drivers) were always sparkling, and they left the building better than they found it, with fresh paint, new carpet in carpeted areas, and snazzified bathrooms on one floor.

 

[On My Own]

It included a requirement that we step out of the elevator - even if it wasn't on the correct floor - if an IOC member stepped in.

????????? why??????????????

 

[kwanfan1818]

A friend of mine, who was an event planner, was visiting Chicago and took a walk one morning. He passed a bar/restaurant where there was a lot of cheering and stomping and jumping up and down. He asked one of the jumpers, who was an older woman impeccably dressed in vivid pink from head-to-her-very-high-stiletto-heels what was up. She told him that Chicago had been selected as a US Olympic bid candidate.

My friend is a chatter-upper, and soon she said that they needed someone to make travel and accommodation arrangements for the IOC members who were going to be doing visits, in about five minutes, she came to the conclusion that he just happened to be what they were looking for. For a couple of years, until Chicago was eliminated from the running, it was a very lucrative side gig for him, if one where he was at the other end of speed dial 24x7. It was only because they were throwing money around hand over fist that he made a reasonable amount of money/hour.

For those two years, he was planning out the no-stress, no friction life for IOC members, and it was quite an . You'd think they were all the Sultan of Brunei. And, because my friend was a contractor, he wasn't even privy to the s, just the enormous expense of making sure they were all happy all the time.

 

[barbk]

????????? why??????????????

We might have shared our plebian cooties, I guess.

 

[On My Own]

We might have shared our plebian cooties, I guess.

I hope the urge to fart before leaving was too great for at least some.

 

[VGThuy]

My personal experience with the IOC members decades ago was that they were an entitled (literally, in several cases), snobby, and out-of-touch group who actively disdained "the little people." Sharing an office building with them during the LA Olympics was very unpleasant. It included a requirement that we step out of the elevator - even if it wasn't on the correct floor - if an IOC member stepped in. They ignored us, though that might have been cultural.

They also smoked. In LA. In buildings. I was glad when we were all released to go away during the Olympics.

On the good side - the clothes and shoes were pretty fab, the cars (with drivers) were always sparkling, and they left the building better than they found it, with fresh paint, new carpet in carpeted areas, and snazzified bathrooms on one floor.

Years ago, right before the Sochi games, I attended a talk given by an Olympian who is now an international human rights lawyer and what she said about the people in charge of the IOC very much aligned with what you’ve described. A lot of members of the wealthier classes from Europe, individuals who were bred to be members of the idle rich with no context as to how other people really lived… think royalty and such. That explains why some sports have traditionally been a part of the Olympic Games since the advent of them.