Maria Butyrskaya - Ilia Malinin is not even American

[Former Lurve Goddess]

Butyrskaya and Malinina were super close friends back in the day and I’d imagine they still are. I remember she once said that after they both failed to qualify for the short at 1993 Worlds, they sat and cried together. I also still remember Tatiana being super supportive to Maria at 2000 NHK directly after the marks came up that gave Slutskaya the controversial win.

As someone who was a huge fan of both Butyrskaya and Malinina back in the day, this warms my heart. I try not to read anything current about the Russian skaters whom I used stan because what usually comes out of their mouths is

 

[bardtoob]

Well you added that in later.

I think your observation was independently relevant. It didn't really matter that I added anything.

 

[PRlady]

Oh for heaven’s sake this country is filled with first and second generation Americans. You can retain plenty of old country practices while solidly being a citizen of the new country. Is this not true in Russia as well? As for Maria I liked her story (emerging despite the lack of federation support) more than I liked her skating which sometimes seemed wobbly to me. Ilia is exciting, his folks are gorgeous, supportive…and whether this is Russian influence, North American or both it is working. Maybe something was lost in translation??

Russia is not a country of immigrants other than ethnic Russians coming home. Emigration is much greater than immigration. No one is braving jungles and swimming rivers to get to Russia.

 

[Karen-W]

*Aren't his parents ethically Uzbeks that technically ended up in Russia because his grandparents moved from Uzbekistan to Russia for the same reason his parents moved from Russia to the USA?

Nope, they're ethnically Russian. They were farmed out to Uzbekistan when the USSR collapsed and all the new countries got skaters to represent them.

Malinina's ISU bio - http://www.isuresults.com/bios/isufs00000591.htm

Skorniakov's ISU bio - http://www.isuresults.com/bios/isufs00000584.htm

She was born in Novosibirsk and he was born in Sverdlovsk. It's been mentioned in a few Ilia interviews that his maternal grandfather and other family members still lives in Russia.

That sort of enhances my point, given that Malinin is Uzbek.

He is not an ethnic Uzbek. He's ethnically Russian.

 

[Vagabond]

Malinina was not "farmed out." Her family moved to Uzbekistan when it was still part of the Soviet Union.

Tatiana Malinina - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[pixie cut]

The United States is a country of immigrants. Many people came here to get better opportunities. This is no different in skating than it is across backgrounds, nationalities and professions. Butyrskaya was just parroting a party line, which is hilarious as she didn't seem put out about Nathan Chen or Ashley Cain -- both born in the U.S. to immigrant parents -- representing the country of their birth. She can go back to being irrelevant.

 

[AngieNikodinovLove (ANL)]

Maria Butyrskaya: “Malinin is also one of ours. He’s not even an American in the literal sense; he represents this country only by territorial indication.”

Translation of Maria Butyrskaya's comments about Ilia Malinin.

fs-gossips.com

I'm not sure what to make of this ...

lol. The stupidity, then no Americans are Americans as we all came from somewhere else.

 

[Private Citizen]

I think it's helpful to read the full quote and not just the pieces quoted by Olympic. When I read the full quote, it was not nearly as bad. I think she's not denying Malinin is American per se, but say he is "also" a product of the Russian skating program in which both of his parents were brought up. She's saying that Russians should celebrate his origins, not disregard him based on his US nationality, as Slutskaya had apparently done.

“Q: Can we say that you are against our isolation from the world? Because people like to say that now everything is ours, Russian, and much better. Your acquaintance, Irina Slutskaya, even claims that she is not interested in Malinin’s quad axel because he is American, and one should support their own.

Maria Butyrskaya: We are in the world of figure skating, and it continues to exist. I really hope that we will soon be given the opportunity to compete, there is such hope. We shouldn’t reject Malinin’s axel either; it exists, and it’s just… just amazing, how he does it!

Malinin is also one of ours; we competed together with Tanya Malinina, and now she is also heading towards her goal as a mother and coach. We should be happy for her! She didn’t become a world champion like me or Irina, but she embodies her knowledge and aspirations in her child’s life. That’s cool! I’m very happy for Tanya that such a talented son was born to her. This is how we should approach it.

He’s not even an American in the literal sense; he represents this country only by territorial indication since he was born there. His parents ended up in the USA at that moment probably because they were not very needed in Russia. May God give me such children. I also try to make my children like that —something to be proud of,” said Butyrskaya.

 

[Cachoo]

I think it's helpful to read the full quote and not just the pieces quoted by Olympic. When I read the full quote, it was not nearly as bad. I think she's not denying Malinin is American per se, but say he is "also" a product of the Russian skating program in which both of his parents were brought up. She's saying that Russians should celebrate his origins, not disregard him based on his US nationality, as Slutskaya had apparently done.

This reminds me of the reception JKF received when he went to Ireland. I now see Maria’s statement in this light.

 

[dupa]

Bute was always a bitch. That's why the ones who lurved her, lurved her. She was the Khorkina of skating in the gymnastics world.

 

[caseyedwards]

Everybody born here is an American because they were born here, you Putinesque twit.

Not if they are children of embassy staff

 

[caseyedwards]

Russia is not a country of immigrants other than ethnic Russians coming home. Emigration is much greater than immigration. No one is braving jungles and swimming rivers to get to Russia.

All the people from Central Asia would beg to differ! Also Finland has kept its borders closed because non Russian people are using Russia as a landing place. I assume some stay but why would Finland be closing its borders - and it’s not Russians

 

[PRlady]

All the people from Central Asia would beg to differ! Also Finland has kept its borders closed because non Russian people are using Russia as a landing place. I assume some stay but why would Finland be closing its borders - and it’s not Russians

They closed their borders to stop being overrun by Russians leaving! And because Russia is sending undocumented migrants in droves to mess with the Finns. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/...gain-due-to-influx-of-migrants-at-2-crossings

As for Crntral Asians wanting to move to Russia, that’s the familiar pattern of colonized wanting a better life with the colonizers (South Asians in the UK, North Africans in France.) No one else wants to live in Russia.

 

[skatfan]

I think it's helpful to read the full quote and not just the pieces quoted by Olympic. When I read the full quote, it was not nearly as bad. I think she's not denying Malinin is American per se, but say he is "also" a product of the Russian skating program in which both of his parents were brought up. She's saying that Russians should celebrate his origins, not disregard him based on his US nationality, as Slutskaya had apparently done.

That makes more sense. I think we can generally agree that Ilia's parents' skating backgrounds are fundamental to the skater he is today, and that he is a child of both cultures and traditions.

 

[kwanfan1818]

He’s not even an American in the literal sense; he represents this country only by territorial indication since he was born there. His parents ended up in the USA at that moment probably because they were not very needed in Russia.

As has already been pointed out, in fact, he is an American in the most literal sense. If she had argued that he's just in it for the passport and the job, but really wants to be back in Russia -- like many Russian expat skaters who skate for other countries and train elsewhere -- then that would have been a point of contention, especially as he doesn't have the tools to just transfer his life to a Russian university, between pre-requisites and written literacy. Nothing I've ever heard Malinin say indicates that he feels conflicted about being American and Russian.

Through her intimate friendship with Malinina, Butyrskaya may know better than most if Malinina and Skorniakov are only in the US because of the money or house or the rink or their kids or whatever, but really want to be in Russia. If it was that important to them, many other champion and world-class Russian athletes and coaches have, even picking up their families to do so, and they make good livings. They wouldn't have been the first.

Butyrskaya's is not an unusual view of people who believe that an ethnicity, language, and culture defines their country, which is not true in the US. Once you go back to the home country, you might be othered, but when you're abroad, you're as [pick a country] as they come in their eyes.

She's unusual in saying that they shouldn't close their eyes from everything that is happening outside of Russia, which could stem from her friendship with Malinina. Which shows how personal connections and relationships can break down walls.

 

[PRlady]

I think it's helpful to read the full quote and not just the pieces quoted by Olympic. When I read the full quote, it was not nearly as bad. I think she's not denying Malinin is American per se, but say he is "also" a product of the Russian skating program in which both of his parents were brought up. She's saying that Russians should celebrate his origins, not disregard him based on his US nationality, as Slutskaya had apparently done.

That is somewhat better. She still makes the ridiculous claim that Ilia is not American in the literal sense when that’s exactly what he is. But in context she’s speaking as a mom and a friend which is less awful.

Still, if the only reason to respect Ilia is because he is culturally part-Russian, we’re back to Russia Uber Alles.

 

[caseyedwards]

They closed their borders to stop being overrun by Russians leaving! And because Russia is sending undocumented migrants in droves to mess with the Finns. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/...gain-due-to-influx-of-migrants-at-2-crossings

As for Crntral Asians wanting to move to Russia, that’s the familiar pattern of colonized wanting a better life with the colonizers (South Asians in the UK, North Africans in France.) No one else wants to live in Russia.

It’s not Russians.

Late last year, Finland closed all of its land crossings with Russia, accusing Moscow of facilitating a potentially destabilizing influx of migrants mostly from Africa and the Middle East.

Finland Extends Closure of Border With Russia

Late last year, Finland accused Moscow of facilitating an influx of migrants and shut its land border crossings with Russia.

www.nytimes.com

 

[airgelaal]

In the same interview, she called the judges dumb, stupid and blind only because they offended the russian girl Gubanova. so I'm not sure that context changes anything.

 

[Private Citizen]

She still makes the ridiculous claim that Ilia is not American in the literal sense when that’s exactly what he is.

Who knows how much is getting lost in translation, but I interpreted "not American in the literal sense" to mean a Russian's idea of a stereotypical American, someone whose ancestors have been in the country for 100+ years and who identifies with only American culture and values. He's not, say, a Michael Weiss, Tim Goebel, or Evan Lysacek.

He's American in the literal sense to our eyes, but not to theirs. In Europe (not just Russia), the law says you are what your parents are.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Still, if the only reason to respect Ilia is because he is culturally part-Russian, we’re back to Russia Uber Alles.

Sometimes it starts with the door cracking a little. ETA: as opposed to Slutskaya, who's padlocked it.

 

[airgelaal]

Who knows how much is getting lost in translation, but I interpreted "not American in the literal sense" to mean a Russian's idea of a stereotypical American, someone whose ancestors have been in the country for 100+ years and who identifies with only American culture and values. He's not, say, a Michael Weiss, Tim Goebel, or Evan Lysacek.

He's American in the literal sense to our eyes, but not to theirs. In Europe (not just Russia), the law says you are what your parents are.

I read it in russian, nothing was lost in translation. She really considers him absolutely russian.
In the same way, russians consider Ukrainian territories to be theirs.
This is what russia is all about.

 

[Private Citizen]

I read it in russian, nothing was lost in translation. She really considers him absolutely russian.
In the same way, russians consider Ukrainian territories to be theirs.
This is what russia is all about.

Yikes, maybe I was too charitable in my interpretation of her comments.

 

[airgelaal]

It's the world they live in. Zhulin, for example, recently called Vasiljevs Russian, who changed his citizenship.
They see a “russian” surname and consider the person to be one of their own in one way or another.

 

[olympic]

I think it's helpful to read the full quote and not just the pieces quoted by Olympic. When I read the full quote, it was not nearly as bad. I think she's not denying Malinin is American per se, but say he is "also" a product of the Russian skating program in which both of his parents were brought up. She's saying that Russians should celebrate his origins, not disregard him based on his US nationality, as Slutskaya had apparently done.

FTR, I tried to quote what appeared to be the highlight of the article. I did get the impression initially that she was waxing philosophical. However, later comments in this thread do disprove that.

 

[karmena]

They did this at US Nationals last season, trying to take credit for three of the top fourin the Men's, (two of whom were children of Russian skaters).

... why then no one claims Stephen Gogolev as a Russian? Gogolev learned his first steps in skating in Russia, is not it so? And, if I am not mistaken, he has a dual citizenship- Canadian and Russian. And no one claimed poor Ksenia Makarova as their own. Or Pavel Kovalev. It seems that Russians are eager to claim the theirs all the succes in the world and, if there is no success or succes is not outstanding, then of course there is nothing to do with Russia

 

[karmena]

Tutberidze in "literal sense" is not a Russian either... She is Georgian. And yet, she is a Russian. If she would not be successful, then it would be a different story- 'Oh, she is not even ours! what you can expect? She is Georgian'

 

[Mell]

Maria basically said his parents were useless to Russia and/or its economy. On the other hand, Maria basically said that Russia and/or its economy was not good enough to support his parents. or the

On the other hand, I don't begrudge Japan if they are proud of Yamaguchi, China if they are proud of Kwan, etc., so let Russia be proud of Ilia*. He is still a product of the American way of fostering talent.

*Aren't his parents ethically Uzbeks that technically ended up in Russia because his grandparents moved from Uzbekistan to Russia for the same reason his parents moved from Russia to the USA?

It makes me angry when people claim their origins are Uzbek when they literally aren't. It's like denying who he is, denying his identity. His parents only competed for Uzbekistan, just like Gubanova is competing for Georgia. His dad never left Russia, never lived in Uzbekistan, he even competed at Russian nationals before changing countris. Ilia's grandfather talked about how they chose Uzbekistan to represent as skaters, because that was the only option. His mom moved there for some time but returned to Russia anyway.

 

[Mell]

That is somewhat better. She still makes the ridiculous claim that Ilia is not American in the literal sense when that’s exactly what he is. But in context she’s speaking as a mom and a friend which is less awful.

Still, if the only reason to respect Ilia is because he is culturally part-Russian, we’re back to Russia Uber Alles.

The real question is, how does HE identifies?

 

[Mell]

lol. The stupidity, then no Americans are Americans as we all came from somewhere else.

Isn't it like that? It's a country of immigrants. Nobody is "native", everybody comes from other cultures around the world. I personally don't see any value in the word "American". It's not even an ethnicity. My cousin lives and works there, has a wife and child from there. But he is not "american". I see the US as a place for people from other cultures who needs a place to stay. shrug

 

[Mell]

Yeah, honey... but unlike many other Russian skaters who settled in the USA during the North American skating boom years, they decided to stay here. Why is that? Were they not good enough to be offered any lucrative contracts by Putin to come back to Mother Russia and train the next generation after the Vancouver debacle? Or maybe they didn't want to dope up their skaters to get results... whatever the reason, they stayed here and chose to raise their children here and Ilia has admitted he is conversationally fluent in Russian but can't really read or write in it. He certainly sounds pretty damn American to me.

He actually sometimes has an accent and it's obvious they speak Russian at home, as his grandfather pointed out some time ago.