2022–23 Canadian Ice Dance: News and Updates

[Andora]

These days???? Well she may have found out that certain behavior is not considered acceptable in Canada and watched her P's and Q's a bit. The other items certainly were more subtle.

I've heard Carol and Yuris do play favourites, though their favourites aren't often aligned outside of Paul. But I hadn't heard Carol was toxic or anything outside of possibly dismissive/uninvested. And she's probably not the only coach who's guilty of that...

My issue with Carol/Yuris & team is they didn't seem to be able to get their skaters to that top level. Even with G&P it took years and multiple retirements for them to be consistently top 5 in the world starting 2020/2021. Their promising junior teams don't seem to fulfill their promise, and despite a decent number of teams in their stable, I'm not sure they're pushing each other and improving competitively. I don't know if that's just a matter of time or the right mix of students? IAM London could quickly outpace them as the Ontario destination for dance teams if that isn't addressed. As it is, I'm hoping Soucisse & Firus shift over to London because their results aren't improving much, despite much better packaging & program choreography.

I'd like more legit coaching options for dance teams in Canada, not less.

 

[Yyzskater]

I've heard Carol and Yuris do play favourites, though their favourites aren't often aligned outside of Paul. But I hadn't heard Carol was toxic or anything outside of possibly dismissive/uninvested. And she's probably not the only coach who's guilty of that...

My issue with Carol/Yuris & team is they didn't seem to be able to get their skaters to that top level. Even with G&P it took years and multiple retirements for them to be consistently top 5 in the world starting 2020/2021. Their promising junior teams don't seem to fulfill their promise, and despite a decent number of teams in their stable, I'm not sure they're pushing each other and improving competitively. I don't know if that's just a matter of time or the right mix of students? IAM London could quickly outpace them as the Ontario destination for dance teams if that isn't addressed. As it is, I'm hoping Soucisse & Firus shift over to London because their results aren't improving much, despite much better packaging & program choreography.

I'd like more legit coaching options for dance teams in Canada, not less.

I think a switch to London would be a good move for S&F. They have almost become forgettable since their move to Carol. What about Mariposa? I have always thought they were considered pretty legit, just lacking teams

 

[yurokis40]

Paul Poirier is way too attached to Carol Lane the guy never left her in 20 years, I imagine if they had gone to IAM they would be world champions already.

 

[Yyzskater]

Paul Poirier is way too attached to Carol Lane the guy never left her in 20 years, I imagine if they had gone to IAM they would be world champions already.

 

[kwanfan1818]

After all of these years, I suspect Poirier understands the choice he made. There is nothing but himself stopping him from making another one. So it must be working for him, despite the trade offs.

 

[Dobre]

I think moving to Carol has been good for Soucisse & Firus. Soucisse looked so scared every time she went out on the ice there toward the end of their time in Montreal. Over the past two seasons, we've seen the confidence come back onto their faces and in their skating.

 

[Andora]

After all of these years, I suspect Poirier understands the choice he made. There is nothing but himself stopping him from making another one. So it must be working for him, despite the trade offs.

Yeah - I don't know that IAM was an option for Paul. I've always had the impression he's bit of a sensitive introvert, and he probably needed the catering to he's gotten by Carol, and to develop at his pace. I think he found the right partner to balance and push his performance & competitive ability in an environment that was best suited to him. If rumours were true, I don't blame Vanessa for wanting to find a new coaching set up when they were younger, in terms of results and what was best for her, but even had they gone elsewhere, like Michigan, their split would most likely still have happened.

 

[kwanfan1818]

I'm not sure if choosing the University of Toronto was chicken or egg, but his coaches must have been supportive of his academic pursuits, too.

 

[yurokis40]

Lane`s problems she doesn`t have the politics you need that to win ice dance , Marie-France and Fusar-Poli know how to play the game and align support among a judging panel, if Piper and Paul return next year i suspect their chances will be better but look at juniors Carol Lane couldn`t do it for bashynska and beaumont this is something bashynska and beaumont will have to think about as they move to seniors if several iam teams retire they need to move there.

 

[barbarafan]

Yeah - I don't know that IAM was an option for Paul. I've always had the impression he's bit of a sensitive introvert, and he probably needed the catering to he's gotten by Carol, and to develop at his pace. I think he found the right partner to balance and push his performance & competitive ability in an environment that was best suited to him. If rumours were true, I don't blame Vanessa for wanting to find a new coaching set up when they were younger, in terms of results and what was best for her, but even had they gone elsewhere, like Michigan, their split would most likely still have happened.

IAM did not exist at the time of the breakup. Paul was a goofy kid and it seemed like Carol was mother#2. Vanessa was a yr older but several yrs in maturity. Both were terrific skaters. I liked Tessa,Scott then Vanessa/Paul then Asher& his partner. Some time after 2010 Olympics I saw he was skating with Piper Gilles. I liked them together & didn't understand why the marks weren't there. Then I read here and there that Piper had poor skating skills, hence the marks. Later on I saw article on what had happened to former partnership. During leadup to Olym.Vanessa got a bad case of shingles which includes horrible sores, sickness exhaustion etc etc on a bad case. Apparently she was pushed to do way more in training than she was up to healthwise by said Carol Lane during this time which today we would call coach abuse. After games Vanessa asked Paul to change coaches and he told Carol and Vanessa was dumped. I was not there.... This is the version I believe. Carol with her connections with CBC, Skate Canada , possibly previous coaching situations not in Canada seems to have a lot of push politic wise. It just seems like there is a pecking order in her school where Paul & whoever is number one.At the beginning of the season there rumours of Piper and Paul retiring and a lot of media coverage of Caroline and shane and Nadia and Peter. Will be interesting to see how the other teams are treated is Piper and Paul continue next season.

 

[Colonel Green]

It just seems like there is a pecking order in her school where Paul & whoever is number one.

They are her most successful team, the flagship of the whole school. Every successful dance school has teams who get top priority.

Unrelatedly, Madison Chock said in one of her interviews pre-Worlds that Paul was one of the guys who contacted her during her post-Zuerlein partner search. I hadn’t heard that before, and find that pair hard to picture.

 

[puglover]

No question IAM is a very successful school and has done a great job with so many dance teams. I was personally happy to see the Italians win the silver medal and Piper and Paul the bronze this worlds. It will concern me if we reach a point where the top 5 all train at one school.

 

[manhn]

I am not suggesting any teams move to IAM or away from Carol, I like their programs and them as skaters. I may have a more positive view of IAM if Canadian skaters really and benefited from their system. Well, I know I would as I am very much a homer. Virtue and Moir and the Danadians don’t count, IMO.

Anyways, away from that, I am visiting Toronto next week and am thinking attending the Toronto Symphony where they will be performing Mahler 5. Is that what Virtue Moir performed to?

 

[Andora]

IAM did not exist at the time of the breakup. Paul was a goofy kid and it seemed like Carol was mother#2. Vanessa was a yr older but several yrs in maturity. Both were terrific skaters. I liked Tessa,Scott then Vanessa/Paul then Asher& his partner. Some time after 2010 Olympics I saw he was skating with Piper Gilles. I liked them together & didn't understand why the marks weren't there. Then I read here and there that Piper had poor skating skills, hence the marks. Later on I saw article on what had happened to former partnership. During leadup to Olym.Vanessa got a bad case of shingles which includes horrible sores, sickness exhaustion etc etc on a bad case. Apparently she was pushed to do way more in training than she was up to healthwise by said Carol Lane during this time which today we would call coach abuse. After games Vanessa asked Paul to change coaches and he told Carol and Vanessa was dumped. I was not there.... This is the version I believe. Carol with her connections with CBC, Skate Canada , possibly previous coaching situations not in Canada seems to have a lot of push politic wise. It just seems like there is a pecking order in her school where Paul & whoever is number one.At the beginning of the season there rumours of Piper and Paul retiring and a lot of media coverage of Caroline and shane and Nadia and Peter. Will be interesting to see how the other teams are treated is Piper and Paul continue next season.

Yes, IAM wasn't around when Vanessa was interested a coaching change, which is why I noted Michigan, the previous North American destination for ice dance-- both Igor & Marina, and Krylova's school. There weren't many options in North America for some times either, such as 2013 when V&M probably would have been better served to leave. As much as I love IAM, and am not a big fan of Carol for other reasons, I would rather the Toronto school improves, maybe brings in some new coaches to better assist their teams going forward.

I have no insight as to how it all went down, but while IDE students might stall in terms of results, they don't tend to leave, and evidently love their coaches. I am guessing she's learned from what sounds like an ugly situation. The way she spoke about Piper at worlds, that would appear so. I don't know Carol's age, so I'm not sure how experienced she was by 2010. Juris certainly is younger. I didn't realize he & partner were 1991 junior world champions, ahead of Anissina & Averbukh, Gwenal and his first Marina, Kustarova & partner, etc - wild. Plus he's trained with Linichuk and Dubova. Wild.

 

[skatingguy]

Yes, IAM wasn't around when Vanessa was interested a coaching change, which is why I noted Michigan, the previous North American destination for ice dance-- both Igor & Marina, and Krylova's school. There weren't many options in North America for some times either, such as 2013 when V&M probably would have been better served to leave. As much as I love IAM, and am not a big fan of Carol for other reasons, I would rather the Toronto school improves, maybe brings in some new coaches to better assist their teams going forward.

I have no insight as to how it all went down, but while IDE students might stall in terms of results, they don't tend to leave, and evidently love their coaches. I am guessing she's learned from what sounds like an ugly situation. The way she spoke about Piper at worlds, that would appear so. I don't know Carol's age, so I'm not sure how experienced she was by 2010. Juris certainly is younger. I didn't realize he & partner were 1991 junior world champions, ahead of Anissina & Averbukh, Gwenal and his first Marina, Kustarova & partner, etc - wild. Plus he's trained with Linichuk and Dubova. Wild.

Dubreuil & Lauzon were already coaching 2013.

 

[Colonel Green]

Dubreuil & Lauzon were already coaching 2013.

They were a very untested outfit in 2013. It would have been a massive risk for any top Detroit team at that time to leave for them.

 

[skatingguy]

They were a very untested outfit in 2013. It would have been a massive risk for any top Detroit team at that time to leave for them.

Vanessa wasn't with any of the Michigan teams.

 

[marbri]

F-B&S kept their Viking program for a second season so I don't think it's accurate to say that they changed it because of initial comments about cultural appropriation. They obviously liked the program well enough to keep it for a second season, but then the scores didn't improve & they were losing ground to Smart & Diaz & sometimes when that happens teams overreact or listen to poor advice (which I tend to think was likely people saying that they didn't "get" the program, which I also think F-B&S should have ignored because when you do something original not everyone is gonna get into it). Then they skated it for the first time with the Gladiator music at Nationals, which is not the best place to receive anything but loving homefield fan feedback & judges trying to set their teams up for the Olympic Games. Then came the Olympics & Worlds and the unreal amount of pressure & mistakes that can come with the Olympics or trying to earn Worlds berths. And some lessons get learned the hard way.

Who saw that program before Worlds 2021? Weren't all their events lead that season cancelled?
It was the first time I saw it. I stand by my original comment.

 

[Former Lurve Goddess]

Dubreuil & Lauzon were already coaching 2013.

Wasn't there a short-lived plan for Vanessa to skate with Nikolai Sorensen in Montreal?

 

[skatingguy]

Wasn't there a short-lived plan for Vanessa to skate with Nikolai Sorensen in Montreal?

Yes

 

[Sylvia]

Wasn't there a short-lived plan for Vanessa to skate with Nikolai Sorensen in Montreal?

Yes - here's a detailed interview article from 2017:

Laurence Fournier Beaudry and Nikolaj Sørensen: “We’re in it for the long haul”

By now, Laurence has calmed herself down, and it’s Nikolaj who becomes a bundle of nerves. Cause that’s their „thing” while heading to an event: a week before, she’s really stressed, „I know it’s like the last time you can fix something!”, and on the week of competition, „she’s fine, and I’m freakin

www.insideskating.net

Nikolaj: Yeah – and then what happened was that, in February 2012, I get this call from Vanessa Crone, Paul [Poirier]’s former partner. She says: I’m interested in skating with you, is it something you would be interested in? Can you get a release so that we can skate for Canada? And so we went through the whole process, signed papers, we were ready to skate for Canada, and then, two and a half months after, she decided to quit.

 

[Yyzskater]

IAM did not exist at the time of the breakup. Paul was a goofy kid and it seemed like Carol was mother#2. Vanessa was a yr older but several yrs in maturity. Both were terrific skaters. I liked Tessa,Scott then Vanessa/Paul then Asher& his partner. Some time after 2010 Olympics I saw he was skating with Piper Gilles. I liked them together & didn't understand why the marks weren't there. Then I read here and there that Piper had poor skating skills, hence the marks. Later on I saw article on what had happened to former partnership. During leadup to Olym.Vanessa got a bad case of shingles which includes horrible sores, sickness exhaustion etc etc on a bad case. Apparently she was pushed to do way more in training than she was up to healthwise by said Carol Lane during this time which today we would call coach abuse. After games Vanessa asked Paul to change coaches and he told Carol and Vanessa was dumped. I was not there.... This is the version I believe. Carol with her connections with CBC, Skate Canada , possibly previous coaching situations not in Canada seems to have a lot of push politic wise. It just seems like there is a pecking order in her school where Paul & whoever is number one.At the beginning of the season there rumours of Piper and Paul retiring and a lot of media coverage of Caroline and shane and Nadia and Peter. Will be interesting to see how the other teams are treated is Piper and Paul continue next season.

And don't forget what Carol and team did with Mackenzie Bent. It would seem there has been a pattern of treating the girls as disposable.

 

[barbarafan]

And don't forget what Carol and team did with Mackenzie Bent. It would seem there has been a pattern of treating the girls as disposable.

I am not sure what happened. Mackenzie I really liked. The only thing I saw (I was always working & did not see much) I believe she went to a competition..(as a junior)where her partner made a mistake. Next I saw they were broken up and she was paired with Dimitri R. I saw one competition....the program was terrible and it was not skated well. I don't think they made the whole season....(do I have the right girl?)

 

[Dobre]

Bent & Razgulajevs skated a full junior season, then Lake Placid & two CS events in seniors. They finished 2nd and 5th on the JGP and 9th at Junior Worlds. He was very raw then. I remember hearing that she tried out with someone else after they split, but nothing came of it & I don't remember who it was.

 

[Colonel Green]

 

[exNyer]

… a pattern of treating the girls as disposable.

not disposable- the fact is that there are FAR more female skaters for every single male skater. A talented male ice dancer who is both aesthetically taller than the girl and
strong enough to lift his partner for these requirements is a rare.

Why has Marie-France & Co replace Detroit’s Igor/Marina’s school & Delaware as the most dominant ice dance training center? It seemed to from nowhere.

 

[Colonel Green]

Why has Marie-France & Co replace Detroit’s Igor/Marina’s school & Delaware as the most dominant ice dance training center? It seemed to from nowhere.

Detroit's supremacy was cemented by its two superstar teams. Once they both were off the scene post-Sochi, the school obviously still had importance and other teams to carry on with, but it wasn't guaranteed to be the center of the universe.

I.A.M. made its bones on having Papadakis & Cizeron, the new generational talent, and then Virtue & Moir's return/move to them essentially made them the new center of the universe by replicating the V/M vs. D/W setup for two seasons. In which time they gathered everybody else under the sun to them.

 

[Jammers]

not disposable- the fact is that there are FAR more female skaters for every single male skater. A talented male ice dancer who is both aesthetically taller than the girl and
strong enough to lift his partner for these requirements is a rare.

Why has Marie-France & Co replace Detroit’s Igor/Marina’s school & Delaware as the most dominant ice dance training center? It seemed to from nowhere.

Maybe because the Igor/Marina school ended over a decade ago when Igor was fired and someone else had to take over.

 

[kwanfan1818]

Yes, the Shpilband/Zoueva split killed them both in the long run as a major force. It might have been a different story if Davis/White had gone with Shpilband instead of keeping their friends close and their enemies closer

Dubreuil/Lauzon already were training teams from before they founded IAM and before Papadakis/Cizeron joined IAM in 2014, like Hurtado/Diaz (2011), Fournier Beaudry/Sorensen (2013), and Paradis/Ouellette (2010, no other coaches listed anywhere I can find).

Whatever happened in France to make Haguenauer leave Zazoui and Schoenfelder in Lyon, with Papadakis/Cizeron asking to follow, was what really ended up putting them on the map.

 

[marbri]

I'd also add on that the Montreal style was also like a breath of fresh air at the time. That Picasso FD of Hurtado/Diaz was the most interesting choreography to me at 2014 Olympics and there was a lot of buzz around Paradis/Ouelette at the time as well. Just a very organic, fluid way of creating programs with a flow and glide we weren't seeing from the other camps at the time. Then add in P/C and that Mozart program and you have a strong team that really showcased what they were selling and it was off to the races.