Taylor Swift

[Cachoo]

This Fall the local university is offering "The Sociology of Taylor Swift." I thought this was kind of nutty. But then I see this outside of her concert in Philly:

The scene outside of Lincoln Financial Field in Philadelphia during Taylor Swift’s concert.

youtube.com

Is this a phenomenon?

 

[MacMadame]

This Fall the local university is offering "The Sociology of Taylor Swift." I thought this was kind of nutty. But then I see this outside of her concert in Philly:

The scene outside of Lincoln Financial Field in Philadelphia during Taylor Swift’s concert.

youtube.com

Is this a phenomenon?

Her fans are, shall we say, intense.

 

[PeterG]

What about those Beatles fans? Total freakin' WHACKJOBS!!!

 

[Wyliefan]

And before that there were the Elvis fans, and before that there were the Sinatra fans ...

 

[MacMadame]

What about those Beatles fans? Total freakin' WHACKJOBS!!!

Swifties would eat them for breakfast. As would BTS' Army. Think Fanyus but less mean.

 

[PeterG]

Swifties would eat them for breakfast. As would BTS' Army. Think Fanyus but less mean.

It's easy to take on a horde of people on crutches and in wheelchairs.

 

[VGThuy]

It’s pretty common now for universities offering classes to study the fandom and cultural impact of select celebrities. Madonna was a popular subject for universities. My sister’s university offered a KPop class a few years ago. It was a celebration of it and figuring out why it hit the west big when other Asian industries haven’t done so for many decades (or prior Korean acts). That said, it also discussed upon things like cosmetic surgery, beauty expectations, cultural appropriation of hip hop culture, music manufacturing factories, what happens to those who go through the system and don’t make it, etc.

 

[Cachoo]

I have enjoyed a few popular culture classes myself though not focused on one specific group or person. I think what caught my attention from this local NPR piece was the fact that the professor's belief that Taylormania is bigger and broader in the world of fandom and so I used the word phenomenon. Here is the write-up:
Like many “Swifties,” University of Kansas sociology professor Brian Donovan first became a Taylor Swift fan in 2013, upon the release of her album “1989.”

His love of Swift eventually inspired his research. This month, Donovan posted a TikTok video asking to interview Swift fans about how fandom influences identity, social dynamics and happiness. He thought he would get maybe a dozen responses. Instead, he got 1,500 in the first 24 hours.

That shows how large and diverse the Swift community is, Donovan said.

“It's immense,” he said. “It is on a scale that I think is much larger than, say, Beatlemania.”

Donovan will turn his research into a new class at KU this fall, an undergraduate seminar called “The Sociology of Taylor Swift.” It’s not the first college class focused on Swift – others have looked at her song lyrics through a literary lens. Donovan’s course will instead explore Swift’s fandom and celebrity status, as well as the nature of celebrity in American culture.

 

[Simone411]

Saw this on my local news yesterday. I remember in the 80's when some friends and I went to see Heart, and John Mellencamp was touring with them. We were so excited, but this didn't happen to any of us.

Taylor Swift fans say they're suffering from 'post-concert amnesia' after getting too excited during the singer's Eras Tour

The phenomenon, dubbed "post-concert amnesia," could be the body misinterpreting the signs of excitement during Taylor Swift's Eras Tour, according to experts.

www.insider.com

 

[BlueRidge]

Whether her fandom is bigger or more intense than those in the past, what drives it? I mean, I'm not surprised that she and her music are very popular, but why the frenzy? Is there an explanation or is it just everyone getting in on this right now?

ETA: I was in Cleveland in 2018 for a conference when there was a Taylor Swift concert a few blocks away, I don't think anyone gathered outside, but I got to see all the young people going to the concert and they were so excited and happy; it was really fun to see.

 

[Jenny]

Whether her fandom is bigger or more intense than those in the past, what drives it? I mean, I'm not surprised that she and her music are very popular, but why the frenzy? Is there an explanation or is it just everyone getting in on this right now?

Two things, along with her general popularity:

1. Pent up demand. This is the first concert tour since 2018, with the last one scheduled before this having to be cancelled due to the pandemic. This tour includes not only songs from four albums that had never been toured before, but a full-career retrospective, suggesting that this might be the one tour you want to be at because it's going to include all her hits (of which there are many).

2. Extra support since her catalogue was sold out from under her in 2020. Yes, she's wealthy beyond all measures, but I think many - including me - want to support the idea that artists should have control over their own work. The terms of the deal - which she did not have any say in - give full rights for all sales of her previously recorded work (ie all the albums) and the ability to sell the songs for other uses or others to record. What she did retain was the right to 1. perform them (so this concert really speaks to taking back what is hers) and 2. to record new versions of the older songs. For the latter, it sounds like the intention was that she could issue live albums - but instead, she has been rerecording entire albums, adding new versions of songs as well as songs that they wouldn't let her put on them in the first place. Not sure if anyone else has ever done this, but I'm certain never on this scale.

 

[once_upon]

Not an unusual phenomenon to have courses dedicated to certain rock stars

Miley, Bruce, Beyonce, Bowie..to name a few

School Of Rock: The 8 Musicians You Can Study At Uni Right Now

This week Kanye West began his 250 hours of community service teaching fashion, music and general Yeezus knowledge to students at different colleges

tonedeaf.thebrag.com

 

[Habs]

2. Extra support since her catalogue was sold out from under her in 2020. Yes, she's wealthy beyond all measures, but I think many - including me - want to support the idea that artists should have control over their own work. The terms of the deal - which she did not have any say in - give full rights for all sales of her previously recorded work (ie all the albums) and the ability to sell the songs for other uses or others to record. What she did retain was the right to 1. perform them (so this concert really speaks to taking back what is hers) and 2. to record new versions of the older songs. For the latter, it sounds like the intention was that she could issue live albums - but instead, she has been rerecording entire albums, adding new versions of songs as well as songs that they wouldn't let her put on them in the first place. Not sure if anyone else has ever done this, but I'm certain never on this scale.

I think rerecording her albums is genius. I read a little while ago that it was actually Kelly Clarkson's idea for Swift to do this.

I enjoy Taylor Swift. Her music is catchy. I don't think she has an amazing voice but she is an exceptionally talented songwriter. But what I do like about her is I think she is super smart and savvy. Her business acumen is legendary.

 

[Jenny]

@Habs agree completely. I've actually bought several of them, including ones I already owned, just to support her and help make the point that fans care about artist integrity and their rights to their own work.

She's always really impressed me as a person, an artist and a businessperson. Way back when she was a teen country star in the MySpace days, I read a lengthy article about her that included an anecdote about a meet and greet she did where the line up was so long she stayed something like 13 hours (supposed to be an hour) so that fans who wanted an autograph and a picture would not be disappointed. She also used to wear a ton of bracelets in concert so she could throw them out to the crowd (similar I guess to Rod Stewart's footballs back in the day, or drumsticks, only somehow more personal).

Then there was the DJ who tried to sue her for defamation etc in 2017 because he said he lost his job thanks to her (I think it was her mother actually, who spoke to his boss about his behaviour). She countersued for 1 dollar, saying that he groped her while getting his picture taken with her. Anyone remember that? She refused to wear something demur at trial, rather choosing a short skirt and a normal open button blouse in line with how she always dressed at the time. She won of course, and IMO it was the prelude to the #metoo movement in many ways, encourage women to not only stand up for themselves, but to make no apologies in doing so. I recall her saying at the time "you could have just taken a normal picture with me like everyone else."

 

[CassAgain]

My twenty year old daughter is quite alternative/counter culture in almost every aspect of her life...and she adores Taylor Swift. There is something about Taylor and her music that a very wide swath of the population relates to.

 

[Desperado]

Taylor's music grew on me after hearing about her battle to gain the rights to her songs.

It echoed what happened to Kesha, whose fight is legendary and extremely troubling and sad. LOVE Kesha.

But why am I seeing a lot of "TS is dating a white supremacist", "no he's not, he was quoting someone, etc." on Twitter lately?

 

[Cachoo]

I will hand it to her: There was a video up yesterday of her entire concert in Philly. Someone with a very steady hand recorded the whole show and she is definitely taking as much time as Springsteen/E Street does on stage. That is somewhere around 50 songs.

 

[SkateSand]

When I was in college (a long time ago as I'm 69 now), I took a course that focused on the work of Bob Dylan, Neil Young, and a third musician/songwriter that I think was Jim Morrison, but I'm not sure. It was very interesting and I had no idea that the lyrics from Neil Young were much deeper than I had realized. I thought the course was valuable.

I admire Taylor Swift. I don't think she's a great singer, but she's an excellent songwriter and I find a lot of her music very catchy and listenable and relatable. It must be annoying for those who think she's just a plastic Barbie Doll that she's as successful as she is. If I could afford it and deal with the hassle of trying to get tickets, I would have loved to have attended one of her tour dates this year even though I've never bought any of her music.

 

[once_upon]

I think Taylor is responsible for Spotify Wars with artists? That she is known for business smarts

 

[jeffisjeff]

My twenty year old daughter is quite alternative/counter culture in almost every aspect of her life...and she adores Taylor Swift. There is something about Taylor and her music that a very wide swath of the population relates to.

This. My 18 year old daughter is similar, and loves Taylor Swift. She's going to her concert later this summer. Boy was that expensive...

 

[Jot the Dot Dot]

Swifties would eat them for breakfast. As would BTS' Army. Think Fanyus but less mean.

Keep in mind that The Beatles phenomenon occurred before the internet and social media. That's what made it so unique for it's day.

 

[MacMadame]

“It's immense,” he said. “It is on a scale that I think is much larger than, say, Beatlemania.”

I think it is too but some of that is that we have social media now. Makes me wonder what would have happened to the Beatles if Tiktok existed back then.

hen there was the DJ who tried to sue her for defamation etc in 2017 because he said he lost his job thanks to her (I think it was her mother actually, who spoke to his boss about his behaviour). She countersued for 1 dollar, saying that he groped her while getting his picture taken with her. Anyone remember that?

I definitely remember that. And the suing for $1 was genius.

But why am I seeing a lot of "TS is dating a white supremacist", "no he's not, he was quoting someone, etc." on Twitter lately?

It's about Matt Healy from "The 1975." He went on a podcast where the hosts made some gross jokes and he laughed and giggled along. People got confused and thought he said some of the things that the hosts said. OTOH, his "apology" was basically "f you if you don't like it" (though he did say he shouldn't have giggled along) and his "thing" is making controversial statements to rile people up so this isn't the first time people have been mad at him. (He sounds like the RL version of an internet troll tbh.)

It's not confirmed they are dating. OTOH, they've been seen enough together that they probably are.

And speaking of Swifties being intense, a bunch of them are trying to get her to dump him, signing petitions and posting hashtags on social media.

ETA one thing I think that contributes to her popularity is that she's a bit of a blank slate. People project all sorts of things on her. White supremacists, for example, were sure she was one of them at one point based on absolutely nothing. I think the most political thing she's ever said was when she endorsed two Democratic candidates for Senator in the mid-terms in her home state of Tennessee and, AFAICT, nothing else since then.

 

[PeterG]

ETA one thing I think that contributes to her popularity is that she's a bit of a blank slate. People project all sorts of things on her. White supremacists, for example, were sure she was one of them at one point based on absolutely nothing. I think the most political thing she's ever said was when she endorsed two Democratic candidates for Senator in the mid-terms in her home state of Tennessee and, AFAICT, nothing else since then.

An article about her endorsing politicians as you mentioned:

Taylor Swift breaks political silence to endorse Democrats in US midterms

Other ways she has used her popularity to promote positive change:

Taylor Swift Encourages Fans to Vote: ‘Only 20 Midnights Until Midterm Elections’

Taylor tackes homophobes in this video:

You Need To Calm Down (video)

This article talks about why Swift left country music and how the pop world scared her because a lack of community...which she created for herself by reaching out to so many competitors and making them friends:

Taylor Swift Opens Up About Leaving Country Music Behind

For Swift's early albums, she was the sole writer of every song. Carole King heralded her at an awards show for that accomplishment.

Swift has been unafraid to battle the businessmen she felt had too much control over her work, even making a hit song out of that situation:

The Man (video, which Swift directed)

People have also talked in this thread about what a smart business person she is, setting a fantastic example to so many.

From wikipedia:

Journalists praise her ability to change industry practices, noting how her actions reformed policies of streaming platforms, prompted awareness of intellectual property among upcoming musicians, and reshaped the concert ticketing model.

Also from wikipedia:

• Swift released a sustainable clothing line with Stella McCartney in 2019.
• In light of her philanthropic support for independent record stores during the COVID-19 pandemic, Record Store Day named Swift their first-ever global ambassador.
• Swift identifies as a pro-choice feminist, and is one of the founding signatories of the Time's Up movement against sexual harassment.
• She criticized the US Supreme Court's decision to overturn Roe v. Wade (1973) and end federal abortion rights in 2022.
• Swift advocates for LGBT rights, and has called for the passing of the Equality Act, which prohibits discrimination based on sex, sexual orientation, and gender identity.
• A supporter of the March for Our Lives movement and gun control reform in the U.S., Swift is a vocal critic of white supremacy, racism, and police brutality.
• In the wake of the George Floyd protests, she donated to the NAACP Legal Defense and Educational Fund and the Black Lives Matter movement, called for the removal of Confederate monuments in Tennessee, and advocated for Juneteenth to become a national holiday.
• Swift donated to fellow singer-songwriter Kesha to help with her legal battles against Dr. Luke.
• In 2018 and 2021, Swift donated to the Rape, Abuse & Incest National Network in honor of Sexual Assault Awareness and Prevention Month.

It seems to me that instead of being a blank slate, Swift has stuck her neck out there time after time after time.

 

[MacMadame]

It seems to me that instead of being a blank slate, Swift has stuck her neck out there time after time after time.

She has on the business side. But telling people to vote is hardly "sticking your neck out" and making one political post on Instagram in 17 years of a career is more like sticking a nose out. And the pulling it right back in.

 

[Karen-W]

I'm amused at the rewriting of history about why Taylor Swift left country music for the pop industry. She left because she was already getting radio play on pop radio and becoming a cross-over star and wanted to be bigger than just country, which was entirely her choice, but a lot of her early fans took a long time to warm to some of her pop offerings, even if she was growing her fanbase exponentially.

I still remember older niece loving her when she first hit the airwaves with "Tim McGraw", but it took me awhile to appreciate her mostly because her voice really wasn't that good at all, but damn if she didn't know how to craft a lyric and that's the sort of talent that is rare and powerful. And, she is one hell of a businesswoman. It's hard to find fault with her and, I suspect, that is part of the appeal (especially for parents) - she is a tremendous role model.

 

[Jenny]

She has on the business side. But telling people to vote is hardly "sticking your neck out" and making one political post on Instagram in 17 years of a career is more like sticking a nose out. And the pulling it right back in.

The average person telling people to vote, even the average celebrity, might not be a big deal. But when Taylor Swift says anything - to literally millions of people, many young and perhaps eligible to vote for the first time - then yes, I think it's a big deal.

As for one post in 17 years, I don't think so. I've followed her for a couple of years, and there have been plenty of non-music related stories about a variety of political and social issues. They don't live on the permanent record, but millions would have seen them.

It's a very fine line for celebrities, especially in the politically charged atmosphere of the United States. She could easily remain apolitical so as to not offend any fans or business partners, but she doesn't. She openly endorses - and condemns - candidates in the region where she votes. She doesn't have to do that, but she does, and I'd call that sticking your neck out for sure. There's a reason her comments on Instagram are disabled.

 

[Cachoo]

So someone will post the concert and it will be taken down. Here is what is on YouTube today. It won't last. But if you are a fan it is close to the stage. I realized I know very few of her songs. https://youtu.be/ADY2niMXerU

 

[vgerdes]

I enjoy Taylor Swift. Her music is catchy. I don't think she has an amazing voice but she is an exceptionally talented songwriter. But what I do like about her is I think she is super smart and savvy. Her business acumen is legendary.

This. She doesn't have the most amazing voice ever, but I think she's gotten better at understanding it and making it work for her. And yes, her exceptional songwriting skills were what propelled her to the top, along with her relatability. Her songs almost always strike an emotional chord. One of the things I like best about her is her intelligence. She's one smart cookie -- at least when it comes to the business of making music. She's made a few questionable choices on the romance front, lol. But haven't we all? Hers are just a bit more public than most.

 

[MacMadame]

Teen Vogue has an interesting opinion piece about the controversy. And how it's partially based on sexism. And partially based on people ignoring who Swift has always been.

The Hollow Hypocrisy of the Taylor Swift/Matty Healy Backlash

Why is being seen in public with Matty Healy, of all things, the line in the sand?

www.teenvogue.com

 

[Jenny]

Wow, that was quite a read! I don't claim to have followed her career that closely (or studied her song lyrics), I just like the music and when she's been in the news, I've usually found something to admire about her. But looks like I've missed a whole lot