The Dance Hall 11: Movin' On Up 2023-2024

[Lanie]

Maybe someone will be slightly original and do an RD to Bye Bye Birdie instead!

NO

I was in a Bye Bye Birdie musical when I was 12

that song is now in my head again... god damn it

 

[Belsornia]

Would Zorba the Greek count? Because it's from the 60s and a social dance is associated with it.

OK, who do we want for this one? Fear/Gibson?

I want Slatter/Ongay-Perez to do Zorba the Greek (RD, FD, I'm not picky). I'd really like to see Diane Towler's (re)take on the music 60 years on, but in modern ice dance it seems more fitting for a young team and a homage to a great programme of the past is better suited to early on in a team's career.

 

[Kateri]

I did a search on "concussion" to see if there was a better active thread about it, but my search indicated the place we talk about them is the dance threads! So:

Interesting article on concussions, and myths about treating them.

(tldr: total bed-rest is detrimental, the brain needs activity to rebuild its neural pathways)

 

[her grace]

I’m not convinced any team will retire (before the Olympics).

 

[bwayrose7]

I’m not convinced any team will retire (before the Olympics).

I agree. I think the only team in the current field that even might bow out is FB/S. Otherwise, the top three have been doing this same "we just don't know!!!!" song-and-dance for a while now, but we all know they will most likely stick around long enough to get Olympic medals, since it doesn't seem likely any of the other teams will surpass them in the next 2 years. Unless there's an injury or other health problem that forces any of them to step away, I think all the maybe-retirement talk is just publicity-speak.

 

[litenkyckling]

I agree. I think the only team in the current field that even might bow out is FB/S. Otherwise, the top three have been doing this same "we just don't know!!!!" song-and-dance for a while now, but we all know they will most likely stick around long enough to get Olympic medals, since it doesn't seem likely any of the other teams will surpass them in the next 2 years. Unless there's an injury or other health problem that forces any of them to step away, I think all the maybe-retirement talk is just publicity-speak.

If none retire then I kind of want a disaster Olympics where a team like LaLa come out on top unexpectedly

 

[Karen-W]

If none retire then I kind of want a disaster Olympics where a team like LaLa come out on top unexpectedly

Well, okay, but none of these teams are likely to give us the Death Stare and that's the sort of payoff we need for Olympic Ice Dance Chaos of that magnitude.

 

[litenkyckling]

Well, okay, but none of these teams are likely to give us the Death Stare and that's the sort of payoff we need for Olympic Ice Dance Chaos of that magnitude.

too many marriages!!

 

[screech]

I'm fully expecting a team to interpret 'The Nitty Gritty' dance that keeps popping up on social media. I also expect to see people interpreting the 'Pink Shoelaces' fad dance, that originated as promotion for the final season of Marvelous Mrs Maisel.
Maybe someone will also channel 90s Viktor Petrenko?

 

[Wyliefan]

Well, okay, but none of these teams are likely to give us the Death Stare and that's the sort of payoff we need for Olympic Ice Dance Chaos of that magnitude.

Don't sell Madison Chock short. I know she loves Evan, but if she were upset enough ...

 

[Baby Yoda On Skates]

If none retire then I kind of want a disaster Olympics where a team like LaLa come out on top unexpectedly

I feel like it's expected with having another Olympics in Italy.

And I for one would not be opposed to a little shake-up.

 

[Trillian]

Well, okay, but none of these teams are likely to give us the Death Stare and that's the sort of payoff we need for Olympic Ice Dance Chaos of that magnitude.

too many marriages!!

Or… not enough marriages.

 

[Colonel Green]

I agree. I think the only team in the current field that even might bow out is FB/S. Otherwise, the top three have been doing this same "we just don't know!!!!" song-and-dance for a while now, but we all know they will most likely stick around long enough to get Olympic medals, since it doesn't seem likely any of the other teams will surpass them in the next 2 years.

The judges will often get restless if things seem static for too long, so I'm not entirely sure whether we would see the same three teams dominate the podium the whole quad, even though there are external factors working at least somewhat in this favour. Chock & Bates are the standard-bearers for what at this point is almost a unipolar IAM world, and next Worlds is on their turf; Guignard & Fabbri are building toward a home Olympics that they're already one of the main faces of as far as Italy is concerned (and they're also the technically best of the three teams, so things like BV can really help them when things are down to fine margins). Gilles & Poirier would be the most vulnerable by default (especially since they have the most obvious heirs apparent within their own federation).

 

[manhn]

Skate Canada has always done an awful job of politicking for more than one top skater or team at the same time. Deanna got more attention than Piper and Paul combined.

After 2008 and 2009 Worlds, it was hardly expected that D&W and V&M would vault over those veteran teams. I acknowledge that none of the younger teams are of the same calibre, but I would argue that the current top teams are not of the same calibre of D&S time two and B&A.

 

[Colonel Green]

Skate Canada has always done an awful job of politicking for more than one top skater or team at the same time. Deanna got more attention than Piper and Paul combined.

I don't think that's a matter of politicking. Deanna got lots of attention because her story is the sort of thing that attracts attention from non-skating media.

 

[Karen-W]

I don't think that's a matter of politicking. Deanna got lots of attention because her story is the sort of thing that attracts attention from non-skating media.

Additionally, they're in different disciplines and it's a lot easier to make really visible mistakes that can cost you a medal (or gold) in pairs and singles.

I agree with the assessment that GilPoir are the most vulnerable of the top 3 heading into Milano-Cortina and not just because they have the most obviously ready successors waiting in the wings already in LagLag. DL was making some interesting observations about them during yesterday's TSL Worlds recap one of which being that it doesn't seem like they have anyone on their team who has the sense to push the pause button and dial back some of their choices - like that Elton John RD in 2022 with the outlandish costumes. Many of us complained about their song selections for that RD and the costumes were just a bit too camp to be taken seriously. Similar situation with their RD costumes this season - yes, there was a definite look they were going for but as I said in the RD pbp thread it was too literal - Paul especially did not have a costume that flattered him. It made him look boxy and short-waisted which was fighting with Piper's slimmer silhouette. The music was also probably the least accessible/memorable of the top 5 teams and I never found myself bopping or singing along to their programs. These are the sort of choices that make them vulnerable to FearGib or LajLag knocking them off the podium with two great programs that are audience (and, to an extent therefore, judge) friendly. They need someone on their team (or in Skate Canada) who is willing to have the tough conversations and suggest they make the changes that will take them to the very top.

 

[Dobre]

I think Skate Canada is probably super motivated to keep Gilles & Poirier in the competitive lineup for two more seasons. (If SC was not already super motivated--which the fed probably was--I'm sure the events leading up to the next two teams being out of Canadian Nationals were super motivating).

As I see it, all three top international dance teams have a great reason to continue if they stay healthy: a good shot at an Olympic dance medal. And all three countries' federations have a great reason to encourage those top dance teams to stay in: an Olympic team medal. (Experience, experience, experience. That is what you want anchoring your team. It was my first thought after watching all three of the top dance teams compete so solidly during the RD here).

 

[kwanfan1818]

There’s the TE to consider, too. Based on the past, you’d expect RUS/whatever acronym or symbol they come up with next, USA, CAN, FRA, ITA, JPN, and CHN to be in, and then it becomes which other countries can fill three disciplines, if not four, if RUS is not back/can’t qualify. GEO looks much stronger than CHN, who might not qualify in three disciplines by Fall 2026.

If RUS is let back in for 2024-5, they’ll qualify. If they’re let back in for 2025-26, they’ll likely qualify based on GP points, given how weak many other teams, including CHN are, because even if RUS doesn’t get a host GP back, technically, M/G, B/K, S/B, Tuk, Trusova, and Kolyada (if he wanted to dust off his skate boots) would be, by definition, comeback skaters, 1-6 in the last ten years, unless my eyes glazed over some part in the ISU Constitution that speaks to being suspended for anything other than drug use or breaking rules. (Aliev missed by one place).

If G/P are vulnerable, it would only be because of F/G at this point, and I don’t see GBR qualifying in three disciplines, without significant improvements by Appleby and their Pairs team. I also don’t see L/L being overtaken by Kazakova/Reviya, but they could by S/B if RUS is back, because there are still many RUS judges under different flags.

I don’t think it was only Montreal that caused G/P to beat G/F (who I think are the best team in the world currently) and C/B in the FD. Right now, G/P have a bigger upside in the TE, as potential spoilers, and since they can beat F/G and S/B, if RUS is in. Next Worlds might be another story, but I think Skate Canada would want G/P to be in Boston to find out, before they put all of their eggs in L/L’s basket and put all of the pressure on their heads.

 

[Karen-W]

The TE should certainly be a consideration, though I consider ITA to have a stronger chance at a medal there than CAN. RUS won't be in the TE unless the IOC changes its stance and allows RUS to enter team competitions in Milano-Cortina, unlike Paris where it's only allowing individual athletes.

Plus, the ISU could just hold off lifting the ban until after the 2025 GP initial assignments are released. At that point all those skaters eligible under the "Comeback" clause would probably just be added to the Alternates List and then the GP host feds can avoid selecting any RUS skaters when they have to fill any vacancies. And if the ISU holds off on reinstatement until the last week of Aug or Sep 1st, they also effectively prevent RUS from entering any skaters in the first 4 or 5 JGPs - and they could have slotted RUS skaters to be assigned to only 1 of the last 2 JGPs when they do their tables for that. Easy-peasy, RUS can't qualify for the TE without any 2025 Worlds or GP/JGP points.

The TE is shaping up to have some really intriguing competitions within the competition. But, you are absolutely correct that these three top dance teams are going to play a critical factor and one of each will likely serve as Team Captain due to that experience.

 

[Andrea82]

Some random points:

- Demougeot/Le Mercier and Davis/Smolkin were marked very close to each others in their Junior years (2020 Junior Worlds: 5th D/S and 6th D/LM, GPF 2019, 5th D/LM and 6th D/S. Same the season before when D/S had 148 as SB and D/LM 144). Then in 2021/22, D/S miraculously jumped far ahead. Now they are back as having them neck and neck.

- I didn't realize Ignateva/Szemko switched to Barbara. Indeed, I see the Hungarian judge was kind to G/F in the Free Dance

There’s the TE to consider, too. Based on the past, you’d expect RUS/whatever acronym or symbol they come up with next, USA, CAN, FRA, ITA, JPN, and CHN to be in, and then it becomes which other countries can fill three disciplines, if not four, if RUS is not back/can’t qualify. GEO looks much stronger than CHN, who might not qualify in three disciplines by Fall 2026.

I guess Georgia and South Korea (given Lim/Quan's results this season) will get in this time as they will most likely get qualification in at least 3 disciplines.

but they could by S/B if RUS is back, because there are still many RUS judges under different flags.

2025 Worlds will also determine 90%+ of the ID judging panels for Olympics. Countries who will get the qualification at Worlds will also be in the pool of the first draw for the 13 judges. And in ID it is usually around 13 countries with a direct qualification through Worlds.
I checked the years of birth...Lithuanian sole judge was born in 1956, she will be retired after Olympics, not before. So one more hurrah also for her thanks to Alison.

 

[Karen-W]

I really hope that Anna from AnythingGOEs heard this incorrectly but she mentioned during their Worlds recap that teams can use covers or remixes for the RDs next season. Thirty years worth of music and you'd think the IDTC would have applied the same rules about the release date being from that specific time frame as they did with the '80s theme.

 

[Dobre]

A lot of 50s & 60s songs were covered very successfully and became hits again in the 80s. The quality of the original recordings had in some cases deteriorated. Plus, the ISU had to mute portions of some top RDs this season in order for the audience to be able to watch competitions. Hence, I could see this being a rule change. On the other hand, technology has improved now and original recordings have been refreshed.

 

[Karen-W]

A lot of 50s & 60s songs were covered very successfully and became hits again in the 80s. The quality of the original recordings had in some cases deteriorated. Plus, the ISU had to mute portions of some top RDs this season in order for the audience to be able to watch competitions. Hence, I could see this being a rule change. On the other hand, technology has improved now and original recordings have been refreshed.

The ISU allowed remastered versions of the 80s songs. What they didn't allow were the covers by new artists - which is why GuiFab had to change their music cut to take out the Glee version of "Holding Out For a Hero" after Lombardia.

I'm fine with remastered versions of those songs, I just see no reason for them to allow covers by new artists instead of the originals.

 

[Former Lurve Goddess]

A lot of 50s & 60s songs were covered very successfully and became hits again in the 80s. The quality of the original recordings had in some cases deteriorated. Plus, the ISU had to mute portions of some top RDs this season in order for the audience to be able to watch competitions. Hence, I could see this being a rule change. On the other hand, technology has improved now and original recordings have been refreshed.

Some of the later covers of 50s hits are more enjoyable than the originals. I was at an outside fair event last year where they were blaring original 50s hits and they basically gave me a headache. I really, really hope we don’t get a gazillion Elvis programs. Buddy Holly would be nice on the 50s front. Chuck Berry and Big Mama Thornton too.

 

[screech]

Someone should just do a tribute to the original (and far superior) Hairspray movie. That movie had a fantastic soundtrack (plus songs used in the movie but not on the soundtrack itself).

 

[AquaLady]

After watching Worlds live and suffering through three hours of 80s RDs, I said enough is enough!

This is not the sport I fell in love with.

SIGN THE PETITION! Spread the word, share the link and make ice dance a real sport again!

 

[chameleonster]

"Rhythms and Dances of the 1950s, 1960s or 1970s" was going to be the Original Dance theme in the 2010/2011 season before they decided to merge the Compulsory and Original Dance segments, so essentially the ISU just went back to the good old days after enough people kicked up a fuss on twitter. I'm not even opposed to this as a theme, it's really only that it's directly after having had an 80s theme that it bugs me. That and the fact that this theme does not mesh well with the paso pattern, or the continuation of the choreo rhythm step. The 21st Century dance party for the Olympic season gives me a headache.

 

[Former Lurve Goddess]

"Rhythms and Dances of the 1950s, 1960s or 1970s" was going to be the Original Dance theme in the 2010/2011 season before they decided to merge the Compulsory and Original Dance segments, so essentially the ISU just went back to the good old days after enough people kicked up a fuss on twitter. I'm not even opposed to this as a theme, it's really only that it's directly after having had an 80s theme that it bugs me. That and the fact that this theme does not mesh well with the paso pattern, or the continuation of the choreo rhythm step. The 21st Century dance party for the Olympic season gives me a headache.

The choreo rhythm step never makes any sense to me. Should the whole RD be about choreography that reflects the rhythm(s)? And I know they’ve used it a lot recently but wouldn’t the Midnight Blues be a more appropriate pattern dance with this theme?

 

[chameleonster]

The choreo rhythm step never makes any sense to me. Should the whole RD be about choreography that reflects the rhythm(s)? And I know they’ve used it a lot recently but wouldn’t the Midnight Blues be a more appropriate pattern dance with this theme?

I've been calling for them to introduce new patterns for awhile now. Dances of the 50s, 60s, and 70s would be the perfect chance to introduce say a jive pattern, there are countless programs they could use for inspiration for that pattern if they had thought ahead at all.

 

[Belsornia]

Plus, the ISU had to mute portions of some top RDs this season in order for the audience to be able to watch competitions.

No-one skate to the Beatles! I do not allow it!

I've been calling for them to introduce new patterns for awhile now. Dances of the 50s, 60s, and 70s would be the perfect chance to introduce say a jive pattern, there are countless programs they could use for inspiration for that pattern if they had thought ahead at all.

I've been thinking they should introduce a jive pattern since before the CDs were dropped. My choice would be to base it on Torvill and Dean's 1983 Rock and Roll OSP, but I think a good pattern could also be adapted from Anissina and Peizerat's 1997-98 OD.