Coughlin's family speaks, shares perspective on SafeSport investigation

[UGG]

ADMIN EDIT

Yes, the new article it totally one sided, because it’s the side you hadn’t yet heard yet.

John’s family and friends truly believed that if he followed the instructions he was given and stayed quiet, the truth would come out. They put their faith in Safe Sport.

All they want now is for Safe Sport to complete the investigation as it is firmly believed that this will clear John’s name. To those of you that didn’t know John, but have some doubts, then you should also be calling for the investigation to continue.

Then John’s family and friends would like an investigation into how Safe Sport handles complaints. This is not because of any ill feeling towards anyone, they don’t want anyone to feel like they can’t speak and make a complaint. They just want an investigation into how these systems could be improved to support everyone.

So you are speaking of one accuser. What about the others? And for everyone who reads my post on the subject- many may not know me here but I have been a member of FSU since 2004- I’m just not very active but this story has really hit me to my core. I have been on the receiving end of not being believed because the man was “a good guy” so that’s why I’m asking these questions. Unfortunately when it happened to me, I did not realize I could ask questions. Also I have no opinion of John and would never want to see anyone wrongly accused but in my opinion this article is kind of shitty.

 

[insideedgeua]

Sorry for so many posts in a row, but I’m also ‘over’ the misinformation and lies out there.

People cared deeply about John, but they also know, love and are friends with some of the other parties in this situation.

I’ve seen enough posts where posters say they just don’t ‘buy’ something that has been said.

Well, I don’t give a toss, you don’t have to buy anything I’ve said either, you don’t have to believe it, but if you take anything away from this complete tragedy, just try to be a little kinder in your posts and what you say. Not just here, but in life in general. Your words have so much power, try to remember that.

 

[kwanfan1818]

For boys, I'm not surprised coaches are trying to get six-year-olds: you have to grab them and get them hooked before they start playing hockey.

 

[Vagabond]

Romeo and Juliette were the same age right?

Juliet is thirteen, almost fourteen when the play starts. Romeo's age is unspecified, but he and his friends and enemies are shown fighting with swords and knives, so he at least a few years older than that (maybe sixteen but probably late teens or early twenties).

Girls of thirteen or fourteen (or even younger, like Lady Capulet!) were not considered to be of marriageable age in Shakespeare's England. http://internetshakespeare.uvic.ca/Library/SLT/society/family/marriage.html#juliet

It's less clear what the customary wedding age was for young women in northern Italy in the 1590's or whenever the play is set, but I don't think Shakespeare intended Juliet to be a positive role model.

For what it's worth, Anne Hathaway was twenty-six and William Shakespeare eighteen when they married. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne_Hathaway_(wife_of_Shakespeare)

ETA: @UGG, I just read your subsequent post. You have my sympathies. I have been on the receiving end of things too, and I believe the way to address abuse is to ask questions and to shine a light on facts.

 

[insideedgeua]

So you are speaking of one accuser. What about the others? And for everyone who reads my post on the subject- many may not know me here but I have been a member of FSU since 2005- I’m just not very active but this story has really hit me to my core. I have been on the receiving end of not being believed because the man was “a good guy” so that’s why I’m asking these questions. Unfortunately when it happened to me, I did not realize I could ask questions. Also I have no opinion of John and would never want to see anyone wrongly accused but in my opinion this article is kind of shitty.

I’ve also been a victim of abuse, a long time ago when I was a minor. I’m sorry that perhaps you may have been too.

I know this hit hard for many people that may have been abused. The thing is though, my situation and any other abuse cases, were not this case, but it’s hard not to feel it.

Unfortunately in life, by nature we all bring our own backgrounds and biases along with us to something like this. I’ll be honest and say that if I didn’t know so much about this situation, then maybe I’d be feeling like you too.

Nobody who knows the truth in this case wants to turn this back on the young women. As noted previously, some had ongoing friendships with John. 3rd party, meaning exactly that.

The family is not asking for anything to be swept under the carpet, they want this fully investigated. I wish I could say more.

 

[UGG]

Sorry for so many posts in a row, but I’m also ‘over’ the misinformation and lies out there.

People cared deeply about John, but they also know, love and are friends with some of the other parties in this situation.

I’ve seen enough posts where posters say they just don’t ‘buy’ something that has been said.

Well, I don’t give a toss, you don’t have to buy anything I’ve said either, you don’t have to believe it, but if you take anything away from this complete tragedy, just try to be a little kinder in your posts and what you say. Not just here, but in life in general. Your words have so much power, try to remember that.

I am the member who said I didn’t buy what was being said and u can read my reson why above. Bye.

 

[platniumangel]

I’m just not buying the jealous rival angle his sister has put out, per the article. Like rival of what? US pairs are just a non factor in skating other than winning a national title. He is not a super star. He is a 30-ish year old dude who internationally accomplished not much and never made the Olympics and is a coach. What would be the motive? Are there even rivals in US pairs? Someone is so mad he won 4CC’s in like 2011 so they develop a plan to sabatoge him? Does he have a Tonya/Nancy Jonny/Evan etc... rival that could still be bitter? I doubt it

Wow. That was rude. Maybe someone was jealous of his recent success? He was involved in a lot of areas: Coaching, seminars, committees, commentating, prominent positions with ISU/USFS.

A rival does not necessarily mean a competitor from his amateur days.

 

[Vagabond]

The family is not asking for anything to be swept under the carpet, they want this fully investigated.

Unfortunately, John Coughlin has prevented this from happening. I understand that it is easier to blame a non-profit than a family member or friend, but sometimes the harder way is the right one.

 

[insideedgeua]

I am the member who said I didn’t buy what was being said and u can read my reson why above. Bye.

Sorry, I didn’t mean you personally. It’s been said in a number of places on FSU in the last month.

I meant more that of course without me revealing more, there will be people that don’t believe what I’ve said either. I’m okay with that as people should be critical about what they read on social media. For some people now, no matter what is said, their minds won’t change.

It’s been tough reading and saying very little though. So the time came for me to say something.

*If anyone else quotes and I don’t respond, I’m sorry, I’m not ignoring you, I just can’t stay online longer right now.

 

[UGG]

I’ve also been a victim of abuse, a long time ago when I was a minor. I’m sorry that perhaps you may have been too.

I know this hit hard for many people that may have been abused. The thing is though, my situation and any other abuse cases, were not this case, but it’s hard not to feel it.

Unfortunately in life, by nature we all bring our own backgrounds and biases along with us to something like this. I’ll be honest and say that if I didn’t know so much about this situation, then maybe I’d be feeling like you too.

Nobody who knows the truth in this case wants to turn this back on the young women. As noted previously, some had ongoing friendships with John. 3rd party, meaning exactly that.

The family is not asking for anything to be swept under the carpet, they want this fully investigated. I wish I could say more.

I’m sorry and I understand. But I also understand being subjected as a liar by a “good guy”. And it’s still true today which sucks.

 

[UGG]

Sorry, I didn’t mean you personally. It’s been said in a number of places on FSU in the last month.

I meant more that of course without me revealing more, there will be people that don’t believe what I’ve said either. I’m okay with that as people should be critical about what they read on social media. For some people now, no matter what is said, their minds won’t change.

It’s been tough reading and saying very little though. So the time came for me to say something.

*If anyone else quotes and I don’t respond, I’m sorry, I’m not ignoring you, I just can’t stay online longer right now.

Ok. I hope you get through it. I’m sorry

 

[Frau Muller]

Romeo and Juliette were the same age right? So..not seeing the analogy. Their parents didn’t like each other

There are 3 people making complaints. Let’s just say, for the sake of the “”what if” scenario everyone is clinging to... all relationships were 16/17 year olds having sexual relationships with John when he was over 18...No one thinks it’s messed up he is repeditly banging multiple girls who are in high school? To me it’s like mice...if 3 come out, there are probably 30 who have not.

Perhaps the “Romeo & Juliet” analogy refers to warring coaching camps...say, the Capulets of Tampa and the Montagues of Colorado Springs?

 

[overedge]

Since we don’t know the truth and we don’t know what the family knows, I can’t fault them for speaking out in defense of their son, brother. I sure would if I knew or felt I knew my family member was innocent. It’s perfectly understandable.

I agree that the family can't be faulted for wanting to come to his defense. But the KC paper doesn't have to present that information so uncritically and with a lot of unfounded speculation.

 

[Foolhardy Ham Lint]

I agree that the family can't be faulted for wanting to come to his defense. But the KC paper doesn't have to present that information so uncritically and with a lot of unfounded speculation.

I could only begin to imagine how slimy Christine Brennan would have written it up, if she'd reported it instead.

 

[LarrySK8]

It seems that Coughlin was being accused, by an adult, of "grooming" at least one former romantic attachment and waiting until they were of legal age to begin a sexual relationship.

Because the charge/accusation was 'grooming,' and he was coaching recently, SafeSport probably took up the investigation into events now possibly 7- to 10+ years ago.

That would explain the lack of police reports, as nothing illegal is mentioned, but explain why they were so aggressive with the investigation and recommendations to suspend.

And it SHOWS that anyone can remember something in the distant past and use it against anyone now that SafeSport exists. The article quotes Coughlin's family about this and they make a compelling argument that this was a complaint registered against him - mainly suspicions - that 8 - 10 years ago he groomed someone he eventually had a legal romance with.

If this is true - SafeSport went WaaaaaaaaaaaY too far. IMHO.

 

[Japanfan]

I agree that the family can't be faulted for wanting to come to his defense. But the KC paper doesn't have to present that information so uncritically and with a lot of unfounded speculation.

I could only begin to imagine how slimy Christine Brennan would have written it up, if she'd reported it instead.

But what does a potential piece by Brennan have to do with how the story is presented in the article being discussed here?

 

[Moustaffask8r]

I don’t see any information that would expose the identity of any complainant.

Also,
The question I have—- does it fall under safesport if the incidents occurred when he wasn’t even a coach yet?

 

[just tuned in]

The article backs up several of the rumors I had heard, specifically that:
1. the accusations are not recent and come from a time when Coughlin was a skater
2. the situations were believed to be more "Romeo and Juliet" than Nassar
3. the people involved were, at least until recently, on good terms with Coughlin
4. the complaints may have come from a third-party rather than the skater(s) themselves

None of this is to say Coughlin is absolutely innocent. It's very possible he did something that technically violated Safe Sport regulations and/or the law. In one of the earlier threads, I pointed to Christopher Pottenger, who was suspended for having a sexual relationship with someone he wasn't coaching when he was in his early 20s and the skater was 16. I think we can all agree that was wrong, but far less wrong than Nassar. Redemption is possible, and not all situations need to result in a lifetime ban. Not all violators are necessarily predators, at least in my view. Skaters are not the most mature people and live in a bubble; a 22-year-old and a 16-year-old may not be as different in the skating world as in the real world. This isn't to excuse the behavior; it's inexcusable, wrong, needs to be called out as wrong, and needs punishment commensurate to the offense.

I feel for Coughlin's family, especially if it's the case -- pure speculation -- that this was a "Romeo and Juliet" situation that involved consensual sex with older teenagers. There are degrees of wrongdoing, and the very thin details that Safe Sport reported did lead many to assume the worst.

The family may have a point that reporting slightly more details -- or maybe at least a level of violation? -- would be fairer to the accused. Are we really OK with Romeo and Juliet situations being lumped in with things like forcible rape, child molestation, etc.? Especially if the reporter was a third party ten years after the fact?

I hope none of the above is taken as victim shaming. Even if this is a Romeo and Juliet situation, the victims deserve justice, and the fact that they were on good terms with Coughlin does not preclude them from realizing later on that they may have been violated. I support them 100%, while at the same time think that Coughlin's family is raising some fair questions about the process.

New facts emerging make it easier to understand why John killed himself. I imagine that he was emotionally crushed that a former romantic partner and her family would turn their past relationship into grievances.

 

[Finsta]

So by saying romeo and Juliette the accuser is now the bad persons? I hope all Catholic priests can use this to get a free pass then. And others who are registered sex offenders for Romeo and Juliette stuff. Because he was a skater he’s exempt. Sick twisted thinking.

 

[Moustaffask8r]

We don't know anything, it's only speculations and feelings that are shared here. For respect for all parties involve maybe it's better to close this tread.

 

[Prancer]

We don't know anything, it's only speculations and feelings that are shared here. For respect for all parties involve maybe it's better to close this tread.

I don't think we are quite at that point yet, but again, as with past threads--speculating about the specific details of what did or did not happen in the Coughlin case WILL get this thread closed.

 

[just tuned in]

nm

 

[Prancer]

I expect that the complainants and their families might not have anticipated that John would kill himself. If the relationship was formerly consensual, the outcome is even more tragic for all concerned.

No more speculation about what did and did not happen in the Coughlin case. This is the second warning for this thread.

 

[kwanfan1818]

So by saying romeo and Juliette the accuser is now the bad persons?

That is not the point at all. The laws are informally known as "Romeo and Julie" laws so that young people in relationships can continue to be in them legally after one of them turns 18, a legal adult. It is meant to be a positive.

 

[MsZem]

Prancer is right that absent the facts, we should not be speculating about what happened. I hope this comment is within the bounds of what is okay.

So by saying romeo and Juliette the accuser is now the bad persons? I hope all Catholic priests can use this to get a free pass then. And others who are registered sex offenders for Romeo and Juliette stuff. Because he was a skater he’s exempt. Sick twisted thinking.

Romeo and Juliet laws are not intended to protect abusers or romanticize sexually coercive behavior. Their objective is to ensure that teenagers who have consensual sexual interactions with each other will not end up in prison or on sex offender lists - in other words, these laws exist to protect teens.

If the case against John Coughlin was based on things that happened a decade and a half ago, there was likely less awareness regarding issues of affirmative consent and meaningful consent, so people may not have realized that something was not right. In addition, with SafeSport now available as an outlet for investigation, and greater awareness of what is inappropriate, people may have felt more comfortable coming forward than they would have before. This is exactly what SafeSport is there for.

I understand the Coughlins wanting to mourn John and to have some kind of resolution. There has been a lot of speculation about what he did, and comparing him to priests who molested children or to Larry Nassar, without knowing the nature of the complaints, strikes me as excessive.

This is not to minimize what the alleged victims have dealt with - at the time, when the complaints were made, or in the aftermath of John's suicide. None of this was their fault, and I hope that they have all the support that they need.

 

[bardtoob]

TSL's latest related post: Natalie Vlandis Lindemann Facebook Post

I wasn't following US pairs at the time this woman was competing so she's not familiar to me.

I love figure skating ... however ...

the Natalie Vlandis post would make me think twice about letting an interested boy do figure skating at all, if I were the parent.

Rumors about boys in figure skating has always been a minefield. The method is the same, it just the content that is different.

 

[hoptoad]

I'd like to see some discussion about making the sport a safer place to report incidents.

Specifically, I was horrified by some of the comments made by Dalilah Sappenfield following John's suicide. Statements that the claims were unbelievable, that he was incapable of such behavior, etc., make it difficult to trust that she would give a fair hearing to someone making a claim of improper behavior or that she would take appropriate action. (I do cut her some slack for her immediate reaction to devastating news.) But her professional reputation requires that she do something to counteract the impressions she gave.

Has she walked back any of her comments that were 100% in favor of believing John and NOT believing the claimants? Or made any statement about providing a safe environment for skaters and safe channels for them to report any problems?

I think her skating club, USFS, and the coach's association, at a minimum, should be interested in countering the impression she left that possible victims are not to be believed. If she did make such a statement, I'm sure that some would say it's all PR and she still cannot be trusted. But what does it say if she makes no effort at all, and that none of the other organizations care enough to counter the impression she left?

I haven't read every single thing posted or linked here and I don't know the inside gossip or what's being discussed elsewhere. Maybe worse comments have been made by other prominent coaches that should also be addressed. It's just that Dalilah's comments got a lot of initial attention and have stuck with me.

Thoughts?

 

[Perky Shae Lynn]

I love figure skating ... however ...

Natalie Vlandis post would make me think twice about letting an interested boy do figure skating at all, if I were the parent.

My son was afraid to approach his crush because he worried about being accused of sexual harassment. I am not kidding. He was afraid to give her a Valentine's card. He is 10 years old. At first I thought he was being ridiculous. Then I thought about it, and realized it may be a good idea to quietly ask for the girl's parents consent. In writing.

 

[LarrySK8]

It's just that Dalilah's comments got a lot of initial attention and have stuck with me.

Thoughts?

They were very strong and emotional quotes, yes. She may have been responding to internet troll remarks, which were brutal. Did she know John well prior to his changing partners to join Caydee Denney? May give perspective to her remarks.

 

[Aerobicidal]

I love figure skating ... however ...

the Natalie Vlandis post would make me think twice about letting an interested boy do figure skating at all, if I were the parent.

Rumors about boys in figure skating has always been a minefield. The method is the same, it just the content that is different.

By this same "logic," you could say a parent wouldn't want their son to participate in any sport, extracurricular activity, go to high school, go to college, have a job in a corporate workplace, or any of the thousands if not millions of contexts in which there are power imbalances that have fostered harassment and abuse.

I think it's significantly more valuable to teach everyone--including, but maybe not specifically, boys and men--how to be respectful. It's not easy; this will often require changes in culture that are supported by adults, coaches, and parents as well as positive interactions between athletes/students/young people. But the idea that there is a climate of fear in which (predominantly) men should be afraid to participate in activities because they will be accused of harassment plays into all kinds of gross, regressive myths. I'm not going to say anything more because it'll become too political, but I do think this is an important discussion because it gets to the crux of what's at stake here and what progressive actions should be taken. I think Vlandis did a very good job of outlining some positive steps.