Russian Figure Skater tests positive for drugs - delays ceremony for team medals

[BittyBug]

Indeed. Kwan developed into an expressive artist, but when I saw her for her senior debut, I remember thinking she was just a jumping bean. One thing I will give Levito, her presentation is far more mature than her physical age.

 

[Bigbird]

I think what happened is that they (stupidly) thought the international community would accept the underage excuse since they accepted it (or at least were forced to accept it) at the Olympics.

Then, they release their report and are (stupidly) shocked that their excuse wasn't accepted this time. Given the appeals they could be facing very real consequences including extending the period of high scrutiny WADA has placed on them. Now they're trying to backtrack to save face and consequences.

They do know how to dig pits for themselves. ROTFL.

 

[Lanja]

An exceedingly rare article about figure skating in the Norwegian news: Valieva and Eteri as a bellwether for all that's wrong with Russian sport. Lots of background about the doping and how her case in particular demonstrates all kinds of hypocrisy -- old enough to skate at the Olys, young enough to be a "protected person" when it comes to doping, yet apparently not so young that Eteri could be bothered to show her any sympathy after she bombed her LP, and certainly old enough to be used in propaganda.

Eteri "has been called tyrannical, arrogant, and bordering on narcissistic -- and her training methods have been described as militaristic as well as brutal, in which young athletes are subjected to extreme discipline, including hunger and dehydration."

The articles concludes, "We will never see Kamila Valieva at an Olympic Games again. And one can only hope the same of her coach Eteri Tutberidze and other Russian, for a good long time. One year after the invasion of Ukraine, we are reminded of how little we miss them."

(If you Google-translate it and one sentence says cryptically "the death of one" or something like that, it's a reference to the Norwegian expression "den enes død, den annens brød" -- one person's loss is another's gain, basically."

 

[Jayar]

What I am saying is that there is something to be said for experience. Yes, younger kids can do big tricks which is part of a judged sport, but there is a second factor that comes with experience. In speaking directly about skating, yes, there are prodigies. In fact, I would argue that Valieva is one such prodigy despite her current investigation. I remember when the Russian women started to dominate-- one athlete way at the forefront of that movement and I never understood why she scored so well. She could jump early in her career but he edges were wobbly, her posture was not polished (and did not improve) and her technique was suspect. She earned 8s in her first year senior... against some women who were refined, had great speed, and had solid edges and scored 7s. It set poor precedent and showed what the new image of success should look like. I'm not arguing that 12 year olds can't be amazing. I just see that the PCS score has been arbitrary in terms of what is rewarded versus what it not.

 

[tony]

I just see that the PCS score has been arbitrary in terms of what is rewarded versus what it not.

I don't disagree with any of your post, but this is not exclusive to young Russian skaters with big jumps-- it happens with skaters who show zero improvement in their basics or program composition year after year, too. Has PCS ever really been used as an absolute measurement of what is happening on the ice? I certainly don't think so. Big TES, coming from a stacked and competitive nation, being high up in the world standings/late in the starting order are all part of the psychology of judging that still continues to this day IMO.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, we have a current skater from the US who has great PCS, but doesn't really fulfill any of the positive criteria for jump GOE's and still gets handed plenty of +2, +3, even some +4.

ETA- and in your comparison to skateboarding, the scores are earned by simply performing the tricks. There's no subjective artistic mark where people would have to work their way up or have some advantage in getting a score. I'd venture to say skateboarding message boards don't have a bunch of 'the judges are holding them back' or 'that's because they have to wait their turn' posts post-competition, but you never know.

 

[thvu]

I don't disagree with any of your post, but this is not exclusive to young Russian skaters with big jumps-- it happens with skaters who show zero improvement in their basics or program composition year after year, too. Has PCS ever really been used as an absolute measurement of what is happening on the ice? I certainly don't think so. Big TES, coming from a stacked and competitive nation, being high up in the world standings/late in the starting order are all part of the psychology of judging that still continues to this day

Nathan Chen’s PCS average in the Beijing LP was about 9.7

 

[layman]

An exceedingly rare article about figure skating in the Norwegian news: Valieva and Eteri as a bellwether for all that's wrong with Russian sport. Lots of background about the doping and how her case in particular demonstrates all kinds of hypocrisy -- old enough to skate at the Olys, young enough to be a "protected person" when it comes to doping, yet apparently not so young that Eteri could be bothered to show her any sympathy after she bombed her LP, and certainly old enough to be used in propaganda.

Eteri "has been called tyrannical, arrogant, and bordering on narcissistic -- and her training methods have been described as militaristic as well as brutal, in which young athletes are subjected to extreme discipline, including hunger and dehydration."

The articles concludes, "We will never see Kamila Valieva at an Olympic Games again. And one can only hope the same of her coach Eteri Tutberidze and other Russian, for a good long time. One year after the invasion of Ukraine, we are reminded of how little we miss them."

(If you Google-translate it and one sentence says cryptically "the death of one" or something like that, it's a reference to the Norwegian expression "den enes død, den annens brød" -- one person's loss is another's gain, basically."

"Bordering on narcissitic?" In my opinion she is WAY over that border and is a confirmed case...actually the DEFINITION of narcissitic.

The dictionary should be amended to read as follows:

nar·cis·sis·tic
/ˌnärsəˈsistik/

adjective
Like Eteri Tuberidze

having an excessive interest in oneself.
"a narcissistic actress"
Similar:
vain
in love with oneself
self-loving
self-admiring
wrapped up in oneself
self-absorbed
self-obsessed
conceited
self-centered
self-regarding
egotistic
egotistical
egoistic
egocentric
egomaniac
relating to Eteri Tuberidze.
"narcissistic personality disorder"


Opposite:
modest
self-effacing

 

[Dobre]

What does it say about the sport if a twelve-year-old can be the best in the world?

That the sport doesn't have a higher age limit and involves flipping one's body in ways that young bodies are better at than older one's?

I don't know. I've never watched skateboarding.

 

[Willin]

@Dobre @Vagabond I think the skateboarding thing was a totally different situation. I remember the NBC guys straight up saying a lot of the best in the world didn't care much about the Olympics because they could make more money elsewhere (and get more prestige in skateboarding elsewhere). So many just didn't prepare well and some didn't go. I would also say it is like skating in that a lot of the older athletes messed up - going for harder things, nerves, etc. - while the younger athletes didn't make as many mistakes. So it was less about who was better and more about who went clean on that particular day.

 

[Sylvia]

Reuters article today (March 15):

WADA chief says Valieva case highlights low trust in Russian anti-doping

The head of the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) said on Tuesday that trust in Russia's anti-doping system remained low, citing the handling of the doping case of Olympic figure skater Kamila Valieva.

www.reuters.com

Excerpts:

"The WADA President Witold Banka said the Russian decision in the case "certainly does not build confidence".
"I must say that the trust in the independence of the anti-doping system there remains very low," Banka told participants of WADA's annual symposium.
"The way the case of the ROC (Russian Olympic Committee) figure skater Kamila Valieva has been dealt with has not been encouraging. These unnecessary delays in the case fit that distrust."

I didn't see the link to the ISU's February 22nd statement (link to WADA's statement published one day earlier) posted in this thread: https://www.isu.org/isu-news/news/1...urt-of-arbitration-for-sport?templateParam=15

The Russian Anti-Doping Agency's (RUSADA's) disciplinary tribunal rendered a decision in the case of Russian Figure Skater, Kamila Valieva, finding that although the athlete had committed an Anti-Doping Rule Violation, she bore “no fault or negligence” for it. As such, the tribunal imposed no sanction except for the disqualification of her results at the Russian Figure Skating Championship in Saint-Petersburg in December 2021.

The International Skating Union (ISU) received a copy of the reasoned decision in Russian and English translation on January 26, 2023 and a full copy of the case file on February 2, 2023. The ISU conducted a full review of the RUSADA decision and case file has decided to lodge an appeal with the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS). The ISU is of the opinion that all young athletes must be protected against doping. Such protection cannot happen by exempting young athletes from sanctions.

Within the appeal, the ISU is seeking a period of ineligibility at CAS’s own discretion, starting from 25 December 2021 and disqualification of all results achieved during this period including forfeiture of any medals, points and prizes. Additionally, CAS is to decide the consequences of the Anti-Doping Rule Violation committed by Kamila Valieva and determine the final results of the Figure Skating Team Event at the Beijing 2022 Olympic Winter Games.

For the best interests of all Skaters and everyone involved, the ISU will continue to push for this matter to proceed without further undue delay.

Given the case is now pending before CAS, the ISU can make no further comment at this time.

 

[Sylvia]

Associated Press article yesterday:

WADA eyes verdict in 2023 for Valieva Olympic doping case

LAUSANNE, Switzerland (AP) — A verdict in the Olympic case of teenage figure skater Kamila Valieva could come this year, the World Anti-Doping Agency said Tuesday detailing “distrust” of how it was first handled in Russia.

apnews.com

“I’m pretty optimistic we’re going to have a decision before the end of the year,” WADA director general Olivier Niggli said of the case that dominated the second week in Beijing. [...]
Niggli acknowledged it was now a “complex case with three parties” [RUSADA, ISU and WADA] making appeals.
“It depends on the kind of requests are put to the court,” Niggli said at a news conference during WADA’s annual media day in the Olympic home city Lausanne. “We are ready to proceed as quickly as possible.”
CAS has not suggested a timetable for a verdict or even a hearing after a panel of three judges is selected.

ETA:

Direct link to CAS' Feb. 24th media release: https://www.tas-cas.org/fileadmin/user_upload/CAS_Media_Release_9451_9455_9456.pdf

[...]

RUSADA seeks a ruling from CAS setting aside the Challenged Decision and finding the Athlete to have
committed an ADRV under the RUSADA Anti-Doping Rules (RUSADA ADR), and sanctioned with
“the appropriate consequences (which may include or be limited to a reprimand) in respect of such ADRV
pursuant to the RUSADA ADR”.

The ISU seeks a ruling from CAS setting aside the Challenged Decision and sanctioning the Athlete with
a period of ineligibility, to be determined at the discretion of CAS, starting from 25 December 2021, and
disqualification of all results achieved by the Athlete during this period, as well as deciding the
consequences, to be determined at the discretion of CAS, of the ADRV committed by the Athlete on the
result of the Team Event in Figure Skating at the 2022 Olympic Winter Games Beijing, and determining
the final result of that event in accordance with Article 11.2 ISU ADR.

WADA seeks a ruling from CAS setting aside the Challenged Decision and finding the Athlete to have
committed an ADRV under art. 4.1 and/or 4.2 of the RUSADA ADR, and sanctioned with a period of
ineligibility of four years, as well as the disqualification of all competitive results obtained by the Athlete
from and including 25 December 2021.

[...]

 

[coppertop1]

Good to see that WADA is also putting the blame on Eteri, because we all know that a 15-year-old doesn't get those kinds of medications on her own. Some pictures are really trying to act like Russian figure skating isn't part of the state-sponsored doping program. At this point, it's pretty naive to think any sport in Russia is clean.

 

[caseyedwards]

It’s not that doping is state sponsored it’s that all sports are

 

[coppertop1]

It’s not that doping is state sponsored it’s that all sports are

What?

 

[caseyedwards]

What?

It’s true. In Russia sports are almost all controlled by the government and funded by the government. So if all of sports is state sponsored everything in sports can be described as state sponsored.

 

[Firedancer]

Now Eteri wants an apology. This woman needs to go away:
https://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1135230/valieva-coach-tutberidze-bach-apology

 

[On My Own]

Cruella de Vil is getting cocky. I shall hope she meets her Pongo soon.

 

[Karen-W]

Now Eteri wants an apology. This woman needs to go away:
https://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1135230/valieva-coach-tutberidze-bach-apology

Oh, lord... This is... Rich. The InsidetheGames article includes translations from an interview Eteri gave to L'Equipe during Worlds. Does anyone have a link to the original article?

"At that time, Kamila kept a short distance," Tutberidze, who also coaches Beijing 2022 gold medallist Anna Shcherbakova, told French newspaper L’Equipe during an interview at the World Figure Skating Championships, which finished in Saitama in Japan yesterday.

"You can’t hug someone who doesn’t want to, and the problem is not that she failed. On the other hand, we have no right to give up. I just asked her why she stopped competing after second element. She simply refused to fight to the end. In addition, the Olympic Games are a holiday, many athletes dream of being in her place. I can’t stand the tantrums of athletes. After that, we sat together in the locker room for a long time. This accusation of Thomas Bach is unfair; I expect an apology from him."

And then, there's this gem...

Tutberidze launched a passionate defence of Valieva.

"I really don't know what happened," the 49-year-old Tutberidze told L’Equipe. "With our whole team, we tried to understand, we watched the cameras of the Russian Championship where she was checked. And we wonder why it took so long between the control and the announcement of the result. My skaters have always been clean athletes. These accusations are insulting."

Tutberidze admitted that the consequences for Valieva would be huge if WADA wins its appeal at CAS and a four-year ban is imposed.

"It would be the end of her career," Tutberidze said.

Way to pour gasoline on a smoldering fire and toss a match on it again, Eteri.

 

[kwanfan1818]

IMO, Tutberidze was right on two counts:
1. It wasn't Bach's place to comment on her KnC behavior. For one thing, that's FSU's turf .
And when we discuss those situations, there's always the argument about whether the athlete would be receptive to comforting, upbeat responses, etc., especially in public.

His comments were selective: it's not like she'd be the first coach to be icy towards a skater in KnC. About whom else has he commented. If he actually cared about athletes, the IOC would be pressuring the Federations to address sexual and physical abuse in their sports and come up with sanctions. And they would not be coming up with work-arounds for one of their cash cow to continue to compete despite state-sponsored doping.

2. In Russia it is your literal job to try to do your best every time out. That is what the athletes are paid for, whether it's child labor or adult labor. While physical development/lack-thereof is an advantage to young Women skaters, the other advantage to nearly all of the young phenoms is that, at that age, they can be single-minded and focused on a goal, and Tutberidze pushes aside those who don't achieve when they don't deliver for whatever reasons, which is what she's paid to do. She's very good at her job. If they had the same talent pool for Men, Voronov, for example, would have been a one-and-done.

Where she was dead wrong, again IMO, is that she didn't take into consideration mitigating circumstances, ie, the blow-up after the drug test results became public. Those circumstances would have shaken even a Federer, a Graf, or a Barkley.

If she wants to know the answer to why the results were disclosed so late, she should ask RUSADA, which didn't label the sample to be expedited, so it was put at the end of the queue by the Stockholm lab that was processing expedited requests, with a crunch because of the Olympics.

 

[Mugs]

Now Eteri wants an apology. This woman needs to go away:
https://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1135230/valieva-coach-tutberidze-bach-apology

Eteri is deluded. Eteri was in Kamila's face squawking about giving up and letting it go before Kalima could even get her blade guards on. No wonder at that point Kamila didn't want a hug. I think Bach was pissed at the entire debacle and that, yet again, it was the Russians causing international embarrassment over doping at the Olympics. Instead of talk and lame responses, I wish the IOC would actually do something about it.

 

[Firedancer]

Did anyone watch TSL’s recap of the pairs event at worlds with Meagan Duhamel? Meagan said Russia had an entire delegation at worlds and the ISU brought Laternik to 4CC as their guest. Clearly the ISU is taking the ban and doping issues very seriously.

 

[caseyedwards]

Just sad that no Russian pairs could compete with them being the best and not being able to do anything to stop the war

 

[coppertop1]

Just sad that no Russian pairs could compete with them being the best and not being able to do anything to stop the war

 

[Aussie Willy]

Does she expect a bunch of flowers as part of the apology?

She brought the sport into disrepute, not just the doping thing but also how her skaters were such an emotional mess. And the way she berated Valieva in the K&C.

 

[canbelto]

One thing missing from all Eteri interviews is any sense of responsibility that she is the adult, and her skaters are children. No matter what you think of their actions, they're very young people who can't be expected to have the maturity of a 49 year old woman. It's always their fault. Kamila's real-time meltdown during the LP was so painful to watch, and I'm one of those who thinks she deserves a lengthy ban. You'd think Eteri would feel slightly bad for seeing a 15 year old in such mental distress. Nope.

 

[coppertop1]

One thing missing from all Eteri interviews is any sense of responsibility that she is the adult, and her skaters are children. No matter what you think of their actions, they're very young people who can't be expected to have the maturity of a 49 year old woman. It's always their fault. Kamila's real-time meltdown during the LP was so painful to watch, and I'm one of those who thinks she deserves a lengthy ban. You'd think Eteri would feel slightly bad for seeing a 15 year old in such mental distress. Nope.

And not to mention, a seventeen-year-old having an emotional breakdown after winning silver while the seventeen-year-old gold medallist sits all by herself looking in shock. All coached by the same woman.

 

[tony]

And not to mention, a seventeen-year-old having an emotional breakdown after winning silver while the seventeen-year-old gold medallist sits all by herself looking in shock. All coached by the same woman.

A 17-year-old having an emotional breakdown on the biggest moment of her sporting career is not exclusive to Tutberidze nor is it something Eteri should be responsible for avoiding having it happen. We saw grown-up Slutskaya do the same thing at both 2001 Worlds and the 2002 Olympics. We saw Stephane Lambiel throw a tantrum and semi-hide behind the curtains after a bad skate at World Juniors, and so on..

There's plenty to point out with Eteri, this one is way too far of a generalization.

 

[Vagabond]

Now Eteri wants an apology. This woman needs to go away:
https://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1135230/valieva-coach-tutberidze-bach-apology

Tutberidze admitted that the consequences for Valieva would be huge if WADA wins its appeal at CAS and a four-year ban is imposed.

"It would be the end of her career," Tutberidze said.

But Eteri Georgievna, enough about her. How would it effect you?

 

[caseyedwards]

Does she expect a bunch of flowers as part of the apology?

She brought the sport into disrepute, not just the doping thing but also how her skaters were such an emotional mess. And the way she berated Valieva in the K&C.

Lol how unique for a sport that has a cry area

 

[caseyedwards]

A 17-year-old having an emotional breakdown on the biggest moment of her sporting career is not exclusive to Tutberidze nor is it something Eteri should be responsible for avoiding having it happen. We saw grown-up Slutskaya do the same thing at both 2001 Worlds and the 2002 Olympics. We saw Stephane Lambiel throw a tantrum and semi-hide behind the curtains after a bad skate at World Juniors, and so on..

There's plenty to point out with Eteri, this one is way too far of a generalization.

Everyone just loved how emotional the Japanese girls were. What’s going on here?