Euros 2024 Men FS: "We Want More Clean As a Whistle"

[MacMadame]

Hi, there, let me introduce you to the disciplines known as Pairs and Ice Dance... There are plenty of lifts that are dangerous enough to break a neck or close to it. Why are we okay with those elements but not allowing a singles skater to do a backflip?

Because those elements involve skating skills and pair skills.

My uninformed guess is that the skaters who can do a backflip think it might give them a scoring advantage similar to a quad.

Why? They aren't that hard. They certainly aren't as hard as a quad.

 

[Coco]

Honestly, I think the cartwheel is dangerous. If someone's supporting hand slips, they could get a concussion or neck/shoulder injury.

Another issue with allowing a back flip is that then someone will add a twist or some other even riskier feature. Where does it end?

Also, even if the risk was acceptable for a competitor, it would be dangerous to train in a group session or in a competitive warmup. It's a big ol' can of worms.

 

[airgelaal]

I thought Medvedeva's triple was at Russian Nats, not Worlds. I could be remembering wrong though.

It was at Europeans. She did 3 combos with 3T. And I don't think it's the same. Evgenia did this to show her technical superiority. While Adam's backflip is just an element that can be done by many.

I believe that such things can be done when it is difficult for you to control your emotions from a great performance. Today Adam was so-so.

 

[MacMadame]

Honestly, I think the cartwheel is dangerous. If someone's supporting hand slips, they could get a concussion or neck/shoulder injury.

Another issue with allowing a back flip is that then someone will add a twist or some other even riskier feature. Where does it end?

Also, even if the risk was acceptable for a competitor, it would be dangerous to train in a group session or in a competitive warmup. It's a big ol' can of worms.

You make good points. I don't like this trend at all tbh. Figure skating is not gymnastics.

 

[genevieve]

Finally watched the final group

Rizzo! Total Kwan program - get aaaalllllll the jumps out of the way and then just vibe to the end oh yeah

Deniss: I actually like the program for him but his skating seems to be getting worse. No costume deduction for the nip slip at the end?

Frangipani: Everything he does on ice is soooooo awkward. But also kinda charming. But then he had a lovely catchfoot spin without dropping his hip so idk. Very happy for him!

Selevko: wheeeeeee! His SP+FS is the best part of the comp And his nod to Abt's Bolero costume was a nice touch. He ran out of steam a little at the end but IDGAF

ASHF: I'm all about the typeovers and the primal scream faces but this was frantic and messy. And the backflip does seem a bit rude to the other competitors. I'm worried about Worlds, like others have said, but I'd love to see him wipe away these cobwebs and return to his early-season form.

Britschi: I have enjoyed the return to (somewhat) random draws here, but I wonder if skate position got into Lukas' head. Poor guy, that was rough.

 

[YukiNieve]

Adam Siao Him Fa (FRA) soars to second ISU European title in style - International Skating Union

Adam Siao Him Fa (FRA) wins the Men's Free Skating at the ISU European Figure Skating Championships in Kaunas (LTU)

isu.org

I knew that I would lose some points (on the back flip) but I wanted to push our sport to develop it and to bring that element back

Adam says "bring it back" - has the back-flip ever been a legal element?

 

[SkateFanBerlin]

Artistic gymnasts risk way more injury when they compete (twisting backflips, rotating on high bars, launching themselves into the air on vaults. It’s way more popular too.

That`s my concern. Where would it stop? We already have had-on-ice elements. Could someone combine things - come down the ice, do a cart wheel and launch a backflip? Or add a twist? What`different here is the landing on a very hard surface - something not done in gymnastics. Plus, I don`t really want circus trips in skating. Wouldn`t make it more popular for me.

 

[Carolla5501]

I’m sitting here laughing. We’re talking about a sport where people are throwing themselves in the air and landing on a tiny blade of metal and all the sudden we’re too worried for their safety. We’re talking about a sport where a male who hasn’t completed puberty is holding a female over his head (junior pairs) and all of a sudden we are worried for their safety.

No, the safety argument is just I don’t want backflips and I need an argument.

 

[Vagabond]

Adam says "bring it back" - has the back-flip ever been a legal element?

Yes. Scott Hamilton used to do them.

 

[tony]

Yes. Scott Hamilton used to do them.

Not quite. It was Terry Kubicka that did a backflip and then the ISU deemed it too dangerous. He did one first at US Nationals and I believe after he repeated it at the Olympics in ‘76, it was banned.

Terry Kubicka - 1976 Olympics - Free Skate

Terry Kubicka's Free Skate from the 1976 Olympics

youtu.be

Hamilton doing them in pro competitions had nothing to do with it.

 

[MacMadame]

What`different here is the landing on a very hard surface - something not done in gymnastics.

Also a good point! Gymnastics has lots of super dangerous elements too. We know of gymnasts who have broken their necks on the vault. I don't know of any skater who had broken their neck doing skating elements.

 

[BittyBug]

Many sports are dangerous and can lead to disabling injuries or death - equestrian, skeleton, skiing, snow boarding, hockey, American football, motocross, etc.

Anyway, hats off to the guys for throwing down some great performances that made for a thrilling competition. I'm especially happy that Rizzo was able to land on the podium.

And speaking of, why does the announcer think that 'Matteo' rhymes with 'patio'? Matty-O.

 

[kwanfan1818]

I think singles should be able to do anything they want in a choreo sequence.

 

[MacMadame]

Many sports are dangerous and can lead to disabling injuries or death - equestrian, skeleton, skiing, snow boarding, hockey, American football, motocross, etc.

But they are all aren't equally dangerous. American Football is the most dangerous sport for kids in the US, for example. Things like swimming, golf, and table tennis are way safer than any other sports.

 

[bardtoob]

You should get a bigger penalty for landing an illegal backflip on two feet and not using a traditional jump entrance.

I am actually fine with backflips being considered an air position variation so long as it has an axel, lutz, flip, loop, salchow, or toeloop entrance and is only considered correct if landed on one foot.

 

[Dobre]

Just finished watching the FS. What a great event for Alexandr Selevko to rise to the occasion. Also I think his free program is a much better vehicle than his short for showing off his strengths as a performer. Kudos to Rizzo for skating this well in the face of an injury. Very nice redemption for Frangipani after last year's free skate meltdown. And I was happy to see Ivan Shmuratko start the event off so well after all he has been through. Finally, congratulations to Adam for earning the title.

 

[her grace]

Spots for next year

3 spots: Italy
2 spots: France, Estonia, Switzerland, Latvia, Georgia, Poland, Czechia

 

[Matryeshka]

Finally got to see all the men's--definitely the competition of the year so far, and maybe top three of the quad so far.

I mean, it had it all. Nipples. Backflips. Fembots. Malapropisms. All it needed was a pigeon and this could have been the greatest of the modern era. And there was, umm, quads and stuff too.

I like the occasional backflip either as a treat for the audience or an FU to the judges, but I certainly don't want to see it competition.

First, it doesn't advance the sport. There's nothing special to the sport of ice skating to be able to do a backflip, cause, y'all, doing a backflip isn't that difficult. I could do a backflip in my youth. Weirdly, most of the boys on my high school's football can do one. I've seen the cheerleaders teach random kids to do one in an afternoon; it's one of the first gymnastic skills you learn. A lutz, a camel spin, waxel that's unique to skating.

Secondly, yes, gymnasts do them but they do them on a spring-loaded floor with equipment designed with safety and spring in mind. There are no mats on the ice. Gymnasts have had training in how to do it, proper technique so that even if you do fall, you don't injure yourself beyond repair.

 

[Vagabond]

I mean, it had it all. Nipples. Backflips. Fembots. Malapropisms. All it needed was a pigeon and this could have been the greatest of the modern era.

There were pigeons there. Chris Howarth said that at least one of the men had set the cat amongst the pigeons, so....

 

[millyskate]

And speaking of, why does the announcer think that 'Matteo' rhymes with 'patio'? Matty-O.

It's closer to Matt-eh-o

 

[skatingguy]

It's closer to Matt-eh-o

Don't tell Chris that.

 

[Sylvia]

@YukiNieve asked back on Jan. 13, 2024:

Adam Siao Him Fa (FRA) soars to second ISU European title in style - International Skating Union

Adam Siao Him Fa (FRA) wins the Men's Free Skating at the ISU European Figure Skating Championships in Kaunas (LTU)

isu.org

Adam says "bring it back" - has the back-flip ever been a legal element?

It was Terry Kubicka that did a backflip and then the ISU deemed it too dangerous. He did one first at US Nationals and I believe after he repeated it at the Olympics in ‘76, it was banned.

Terry Kubicka - 1976 Olympics - Free Skate

Terry Kubicka's Free Skate from the 1976 Olympics

youtu.be

The ISU banned the backflip after 1976 Worlds according to Terry Kubicka - I happened to find this 2018 article today:

An Interview With the Figure Skater Who Did the Only Legal Backflip in Olympic Competition

A 19-year-old Californian named Terry Kubicka flipped at the 1976 Games. Here's what he remembers about his somersault of glory.

slate.com

ETA - this fact was confirmed by @overedge on March 23 in the 2024 Worlds Men's FS pbp thread:

Mark, Terry Kubicka did a backflip at Worlds, after which it was banned. Surya Bonaly did one at the Olympics even though it was illegal.