2024 US Nats Pairs FS - Chaos in Columbus

[Carolla5501]

Well, some of you better be careful because someone over on GSD already called me out for being incredibly negative because I didn’t think the pairs event was an outstanding example of skating last night.


I know there’s a lot of debate over first and second but honestly it’s like the lesser of two evils. Neither one of those teams put out a skate that I think would hold up well internationally. maybe I’m wrong I don’t follow pairs that much but compared to what I’ve seen and the little skating I’ve watched this season there are a lot better teams out there

I am not sure we ever going to be very good in it. We tend to push skaters over to pairs who couldn’t do solo jumps, as if it suddenly going to improve when they have to do them side-by-side. We couldn’t do a solo jump on our own so let’s add some complexity to the situation and that will make it better.

But if I was the mother of a young skater, especially a female skater, I wouldn’t want her doing pairs. It’s expensive, it’s dangerous. You probably have to move to get coaching. (I realize a lot of single skaters eventually move, but it seems that a lot of them do stay with coaching in their hometown longer than pair skaters do maybe I’m wrong on that.)

 

[Carolla5501]

Somewhere Scott and Dulebohn are smiling that their 2003 title is no longer the worst in history .

We all knew that this was going to be bad, but my god . Leave the title or maybe the entire podium vacant.

I also think it's time for some "systemic failure" deductions in pairs, e.g., -5.00 deduction for not completing either throw jump cleanly and an additional -5.00 for not completing either side-by-side jumping pass cleanly. Honestly it would be better to see doubles than all of these mistakes.

I don’t know, we saw a lot of doubles early on in that event, and they weren’t all that impressive

Maybe you go the route that US men’s gymnastics went. You start rewarding skaters for actually at least trying a triple jump because we had a lot of pairs yesterday who didn’t even try a triple side-by-side.

 

[her grace]

The highlight of the event was Terry Gannon calling out Dalilah for being under investigation from SafeSport. No free (good) publicity for you while you sit in the kiss-n-cry!

Too bad the skating didn't provide the highlights. And what a joke of judging for Kam/O'Shea.

 

[Wyliefan]

We tend to push skaters over to pairs who couldn’t do solo jumps, as if it suddenly going to improve when they have to do them side-by-side. We couldn’t do a solo jump on our own so let’s add some complexity to the situation and that will make it better.

It worked for Lucrezia Beccari. But I suppose she's the exception that proves the rule.

 

[~tapdancer~]

I love pairs. I just do. And it kills me when the throws fail. I think K/O are a joy to watch for their lifts but it still feels like Danny is gently handling his sweet little partner and she needs to get tougher. That's the one thing I absolutely loved about Alexa, her fire and fierceness. You need that for success in pairs.
So, E/M? Can they compete at Worlds? I get confused about the release stuff. Anyway, I like them, great potential once they get that connection improved. I think he is so strong looking and they look like they could do anything, she does remind me of Katia G...
Plasaz/Fern are such a workhorse team, their lifts are gorgeous but again, the throws and sbs jumps...I love how they try so hard to do programs that appeal to audiences...I still love their Cap America/Black Widow program but music alone doesn't carry you to the top if you can't thrill us with landed throws.
I worry for Chan/Howe. A shoulder issue for a pair guy is just...not good. The constant stress on the joint, I just don't hold out hope that it will be ready, I had a torn meniscus that even with surgery didn't heal fully for a year. I know they would be selected for Worlds but still, I wonder if they can be ready. But I know that's why we have alternates on standby.

 

[Aceon6]

But if I was the mother of a young skater, especially a female skater, I wouldn’t want her doing pairs. It’s expensive, it’s dangerous. You probably have to move to get coaching. (I realize a lot of single skaters eventually move, but it seems that a lot of them do stay with coaching in their hometown longer than pair skaters do maybe I’m wrong on that.)

Maybe pairs has just run its course, like fours and figures. They dropped figures when it became too expensive for most skaters to get coaching and train them as much as they needed to.

In the US at least, it seems that the tiny, daredevil women who can twist and fully rotate are doing gymnastics, snowboard and freestyle skiing. The guys who are strong enough are few and far between. Given the expense, risk of significant injury, and difficulty of finding a compatible partner, pairs has become the back corner niche of niche sports.

 

[PRlady]

As a dedicated grandma, if either of my granddaughters wanted to skate seriously (very doubtful, we are not an athletic family) I’d push dance over pairs despite the crowded U.S. scene. Yes they get hurt too but pairs is like football, the chances of not getting injured are close to zero.

 

[Carolla5501]

Maybe pairs has just run its course, like fours and figures. They dropped figures when it became too expensive for most skaters to get coaching and train them as much as they needed to.

In the US at least, it seems that the tiny, daredevil women who can twist are doing snowboard and freestyle skiing. The guys who are strong enough are few and far between. Given the expense, risk of significant injury, and difficulty of finding a compatible partner, pairs has become the back corner niche of niche sports.

You know, that’s an interesting thought because I noticed I think it was last the Olympics team event there was a struggle finding pairs for some of the eligible teams to compete. The dominant powers seem to be Russia and China. China doesn’t seem to be investing as much in the pairs and Russia right now is not in a position to exert a lot of influence.

If it loses its Olympic backing because enough countries aren’t participating, then it probably dies. And as much as I hate it the IOC always seems to be looking for things they can cut so they can add new sports. (It’s not that I mind new additions it’s just I hate the cuts)

 

[Karen-W]

Well, some of you better be careful because someone over on GSD already called me out for being incredibly negative because I didn’t think the pairs event was an outstanding example of skating last night.


I know there’s a lot of debate over first and second but honestly it’s like the lesser of two evils. Neither one of those teams put out a skate that I think would hold up well internationally. maybe I’m wrong I don’t follow pairs that much but compared to what I’ve seen and the little skating I’ve watched this season there are a lot better teams out there

I am not sure we ever going to be very good in it. We tend to push skaters over to pairs who couldn’t do solo jumps, as if it suddenly going to improve when they have to do them side-by-side. We couldn’t do a solo jump on our own so let’s add some complexity to the situation and that will make it better.

But if I was the mother of a young skater, especially a female skater, I wouldn’t want her doing pairs. It’s expensive, it’s dangerous. You probably have to move to get coaching. (I realize a lot of single skaters eventually move, but it seems that a lot of them do stay with coaching in their hometown longer than pair skaters do maybe I’m wrong on that.)

I'm quite positive that EfiMit will score very well internationally. The way they move and her Russian pairs training shine and sparkle in a way that far surpasses the rest of the teams who skated last night. I think their score last night is pretty close to what they'd get internationally for what they put out there. The bigger problem is the atrocious over-scoring of the rest of the field. Next week at 4CCs is going to be a huge come-down and dose of reality if KamOSh, PlaFern and LiuNagy skate like they did this week.

 

[just tuned in]

I love pairs. I just do. And it kills me when the throws fail. I think K/O are a joy to watch for their lifts but it still feels like Danny is gently handling his sweet little partner and she needs to get tougher. That's the one thing I absolutely loved about Alexa, her fire and fierceness. You need that for success in pairs.

This.

 

[zigzig]

K/O - so glad they won even though that was crap. The thought of E/M winning a title with their insanely bland white on rice, effortful skating sucks.

E/M - see above

P/F - I find them a tad overscored since all of their elements feel like a bit of a struggle. I thought their short program was great though - really nice style. Top Gun not so much.

L/N - they really should be winning this event. Chelsea needs to get her jumps together or else B needs to get a new partner stat.

M/P - sucks about her blade but they have great potential. This Wicked Games program was AW-FUL though. One of the worst programs of this competition.

 

[skatfan]

You know, that’s an interesting thought because I noticed I think it was last the Olympics team event there was a struggle finding pairs for some of the eligible teams to compete. The dominant powers seem to be Russia and China. China doesn’t seem to be investing as much in the pairs and Russia right now is not in a position to exert a lot of influence.

If it loses its Olympic backing because enough countries aren’t participating, then it probably dies. And as much as I hate it the IOC always seems to be looking for things they can cut so they can add new sports. (It’s not that I mind new additions it’s just I hate the cuts)

There's a lot that could be done to build up pairs, it's just not happening. This Week in Skating had an episode on this that was quite good!

 

[Frau Muller]

Two thumbs WAY up for you! The wonder of figure skating was introduced to me in 1974. We were living in NB and the Can. Nats were in Moncton. My husband came home from work and told me he had purchased all-event tickets. My reply: "But we don't watch figure skating!" He said, "We should go. Toller Cranston is one of the very best figure skaters in the world today." So, we went and it was instant LOVE for the sport for me. And, it's never changed. (And, yes, Toller was FANTASTIC!).

Great story, @Sally1214 ! I was meaning to write to you, as I also loved skating during the 1970s…my university years and working hard to somehow watch figure skating in my university dorms when barely anyone else could care. Toller was a big presence…soooooo musical, to the best music! That joy lives on in my heart… just waiting for today’s men to feel classical music.
Hint: Try to watch Georgii Pavlov of Switzerland, currently in the Winter YO Games…see his SP to Chopinesque, in Gangwon, with a Tolleresque air! It was much better/cleaner than the JGP Budapest film online.
Best, FrauM

 

[overedge]

Maybe pairs has just run its course, like fours and figures. They dropped figures when it became too expensive for most skaters to get coaching and train them as much as they needed to.

In the US at least, it seems that the tiny, daredevil women who can twist and fully rotate are doing gymnastics, snowboard and freestyle skiing. The guys who are strong enough are few and far between. Given the expense, risk of significant injury, and difficulty of finding a compatible partner, pairs has become the back corner niche of niche sports.

Bring back fours and there would maybe be another incentive to do pairs. Of course it also needs two pairs teams with comparable skills that have time to train together.

I still love fours ❤

 

[~tapdancer~]

Having time to marinate on the pairs event...I wonder what else the judges could have done? None skated up to champion level and the cleanest teams were Mar/Bed who aren't there yet for international scores and E/M who skated very well but they have no connection yet and it felt very mechanical. Besides they can't go to Worlds yet, right? P/F are almost there, but they are still so inconsistent and also don't have the international scores yet. So we are left with Kam/O'Shea with Chan/Howe being a question mark still. I know they will be named to World team but his shoulder needs to be strong again. Danny and Ellie are a beautiful team, Danny is rock solid and has the cred too...as I said upthread though, he is still too cautious with her and she needs some Alexa fire under her. She didn't even try to save one of the throws, just kinda crumpled. Skated clean, that FS would have been fantastic. I still enjoyed it but I want so bad for them to be the team I know they can be. I realized I never appreciated Danny back in the day...he is like Brandon F, just a strong rock of a partner and his jumps were wonderful. Have to say I really am glad for him to be champion again.

 

[Coco]

As a dedicated grandma, if either of my granddaughters wanted to skate seriously (very doubtful, we are not an athletic family) I’d push dance over pairs despite the crowded U.S. scene. Yes they get hurt too but pairs is like football, the chances of not getting injured are close to zero.

Ice dancers more likely to get jobs in touring shows, perhaps?

 

[kwanfan1818]

He is of Moroccan ancestry.

Lagha's family is Algerian-Canadian
.

Does Balazs Nagy's first, and last names actually rhyme?

Yes. I only know this from a Hungarian-born classical radio announcer who was talking about a different Nagy many years ago.

Jim Peterson hasn't aged in years. Is he a vampire?

Maybe he shares the same surgeon with Shpilband.

Can you just have no one in first?

Like classical music competitions. No first for you.

Man, Pairs was grim.

 

[skatingguy]

Lagha's family is Algerian-Canadian

Well then, never mind - I had it in my head that he was of Moroccan ancestry.